Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  

    Default The Price of Piracy

    The issue of piracy has been front and center lately, with the recent press release from MadFinger Games declaring “unbelievably high” piracy within Android as the reason they reduced the price on Dead Trigger from $1 to free in the Google Play Store. Technology blogs jumped on the story and a huge discussion resulted – both about Dead Trigger and also the bigger issue of piracy in general. The main beneficiary of all this was MadFinger, whose downloads of Dead Trigger skyrocketed as a result of the increased publicity. Madfinger’s CEO then published an article for Gamezebo making similar allegations regarding pirating on iOS while making the game free in the App Store.
    The rest of the article can be found , but I wanted to get some additional viewpoints on piracy.

    Do you pirate games/apps and if so, why?

    If not, why not?

    Is piracy a real problem for developers and do you think it will have a long term impact on the quality and quantity of games and apps available in the Play Store/Appstore/etc.?

    What should be done, if anything, to prevent/police piracy?

    Do you think that tech blogs have a responsibility to start an actual discussion of software piracy instead of acting as a widespread "blast" marketing opportunity for developers to promote their games/apps?
  2. #2  
    Cyber Warrior's Avatar
    Robots Will Kill

    Posts
    8,565 Posts
    Global Posts
    11,964 Global Posts

    Default Re: The Price of Piracy

    Don't pirate games or apps.. I have no reason to. There are times when I've actually payed for an app twice for each device just to support the dev.. even if its a free app with a donation link, I always donate.

    I do think it has an impact on devs... take a look at the entertainment industry, the only way musicians make money these days is by going on tour.. movie makers are also being affected, spend millions of dollars to produce a blockbuster and they're left with people bootlegging copies before its even in theatres.

    What can be done? That's a tough one, you have DRM/copy protection but that always fails.. either someone will complain they can't make copies for private use.. or there's always tools out for decrypting.

    Tech blogs do have a responsiblility.. Android Central has a zero tolerance policy towards piracy.. the second its spotted.. the account is banned and the post is deleted.
    Thanked by:
  3. #3  

    Default Re: The Price of Piracy

    I'll admit I used to... never bought a single app I had on Windows Mobile, except for a few chess trainers. When I started out with Android I did the same thing at first out of habit, but after a while, I realized that eventually the stuff I wanted would go on sale, and so I started buying apps I was using when they were .99 - 1.99 typically. Eventually, I developed a distaste for the pirated apps, since I learned to value the apps I purchased, and tended to use only those. Then I started reading about how pirating was hurting app development on Android vs iOS, and that was the last straw... since then, I will never ever use a pirated app on Android. I always wait for sales though... I very rarely pay full price. I would love Tasker and Titanium Backup Pro, but I probably won't pay what they're asking for those apps ($6+). In cases like that, I could possibly by tempted to pirate, but I simply won't use cracks on Android (but they won't get any of my money either). Then there's apps like Llama.. free and fully functional, but also has a donate ability... I'll probably donate multiple times (I have once already), since that app has become such a staple for me. Totally worth it (and more), and I want the dev to keep working on it.

    The choice is simple.. you want nice apps on Android? Make the platform attractive to the devs.
    Thanked by:
  4. Thread Author  Thread Author    #4  

    Default Re: The Price of Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber Warrior View Post
    Don't pirate games or apps.. I have no reason to. There are times when I've actually payed for an app twice for each device just to support the dev.. even if its a free app with a donation link, I always donate.

    I do think it has an impact on devs... take a look at the entertainment industry, the only way musicians make money these days is by going on tour.. movie makers are also being affected, spend millions of dollars to produce a blockbuster and they're left with people bootlegging copies before its even in theatres.

    What can be done? That's a tough one, you have DRM/copy protection but that always fails.. either someone will complain they can't make copies for private use.. or there's always tools out for decrypting.

    Tech blogs do have a responsiblility.. Android Central has a zero tolerance policy towards piracy.. the second its spotted.. the account is banned and the post is deleted.

    Good comments. I personally think the app/game developer community needs to distance itself from the entertainment industry. Their model for fighting piracy is exactly the opposite approach that I would take. First, the models for distribution in those industries are much different - there are many more people involved in the process and they all want their cut - hence the very low return for the actual artists for album sales (in the music industry).

    Second, the RIAA/MPAA approach is to sue their customers for exorbitant amounts - well above the actual value of the music/movie being pirated. These lawsuits impact probably no more than 0.0001% of people who are actually pirating the music and movies - not much of a deterrrant.

    On top of that, they pay lobbyists millions of dollars to attempt to influence legislation which directly impacts the freedoms and liberties of legitimate users through laws like SOPA/PIPA/ACTA. Remember that the RIAA and MPAA were both in the PREMIERE position to be the leaders in distribution of the music and movie content. Instead, they have embraced oppressive DRM and further discouraged legitimate purchases by making sure you have to watch 10+ minutes of ads before the movie starts. These sorts of measures are exactly the opposite of what should be done and its why the MPAA and RIAA aren't the leaders in distributing this content (see Apple/Amazon/Google), but instead the leaders in litigation and almost universally disliked. I'd prefer to avoid that, plus the model for games/app distribution is more direct and there are many less parties involved.

    DRM does not impact the people who pirate, and in fact encourages people to pirate because its much better to download a movie and just start watching it instead of buying a copy which has layers of DRM/protection which restricts the devices a user can watch/listen to the content and requires them to sit through endless advertisements. Of course people want to pirate stuff when its more convenient than actually purchasing the content legitimately.

    Those industries are exactly the opposite of what the software development industry needs to do. I think we will because the people who suffer the most from the problem (the developers) aren't out of touch with the reality of the situation like those heading the RIAA and MPAA. They realize that measures like those don't work and I think you see a lot more developers consciously avoid including DRM because they realize the futility associated with that effort and also recognize that DRM only negatively impacts the legitimate buyers. I think as a community, we need to approach the problem much more intelligently than the RIAA and MPAA are capable of.


    Quote Originally Posted by greyopaque View Post
    I'll admit I used to... never bought a single app I had on Windows Mobile, except for a few chess trainers. When I started out with Android I did the same thing at first out of habit, but after a while, I realized that eventually the stuff I wanted would go on sale, and so I started buying apps I was using when they were .99 - 1.99 typically. Eventually, I developed a distaste for the pirated apps, since I learned to value the apps I purchased, and tended to use only those. Then I started reading about how pirating was hurting app development on Android vs iOS, and that was the last straw... since then, I will never ever use a pirated app on Android. I always wait for sales though... I very rarely pay full price. I would love Tasker and Titanium Backup Pro, but I probably won't pay what they're asking for those apps ($6+). In cases like that, I could possibly by tempted to pirate, but I simply won't use cracks on Android (but they won't get any of my money either). Then there's apps like Llama.. free and fully functional, but also has a donate ability... I'll probably donate multiple times (I have once already), since that app has become such a staple for me. Totally worth it (and more), and I want the dev to keep working on it.

    The choice is simple.. you want nice apps on Android? Make the platform attractive to the devs.
    I downloaded hundreds of 80's songs from Napster way back in the day. I never would have bought those songs, but it was nice to have them. I look back at that and realize that it was part of an emerging technology and that while I was wrong to do it, I don't particularly feel bad about it. It isn't a lost sale, it didn't cost anyone anything. Now I buy all of my music (sometimes multiple times), and I always buy full albums. Even when albums are offered for free (see Radiohead), I typically pay full price for what I could have purchased the album for. I have no problem doing what I can to support artists and I feel the same way about developers. Supporting the developers means they can justify continuing to work on and improving their games and apps. It also means they are more likely to take chances on new projects.

    This is the message the casual users need to start pushing to their friends and family who do pirate stuff. I think alot of people "casually" pirate stuff because its easy to do. They aren't making a moral or ethical judgement call in their mind because they don't see the impact it can have. That's what I think the mobile community as a whole needs to be discussing. How can we positively impact the overall culture regarding piracy so that developers can be successful and continue to create great games and apps that make our devices that much better.

    I think too often these day, the discussion about piracy is basically how it unfolded with Madfinger. The headlines are inflammatory, comments back and forth don't add any value, and nothing is gained. Claims of piracy made to generate headlines and create a huge marketing opportunity do nothing but benefit that sole developer and actually minimize the real discussion concerning piracy that needs to take place. That needs to change.
  5. #5  
    funkylogik's Avatar

    Posts
    9,694 Posts
    Global Posts
    9,696 Global Posts
    ROM
    touchejiz

    Default Re: The Price of Piracy

    wooden leg and an eye patch is a high price to pay trust me aarrrr
  6. #6  

    Default

    As a child, in had downloaded "free" apps and music. Didn't really think much about it. Everyone did it.
    Now I know better. Ever since I grew up, I always pay for apps.
    I donate for apps if the quality is there or if the dev is actively improving towards quality.
    Theft is theft. Laws need to get tougher with software piracy.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
  7. #7  

    Default Re: The Price of Piracy

    I think anti-piracy is one of the things that is driving so many apps toward IAPs. You can't pirate IAPs. Give the game away, but get people to pay while playing.
  8. #8  

    Default

    I wont front I pirate games and apps to test it out if I like them then I buy it if not then I just uninstall them if games gave out demos they would lose this pirate

    Sent from my SPH-D710BST using Tapatalk 2
  9. #9  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by youngville718 View Post
    I wont front I pirate games and apps to test it out if I like them then I buy it if not then I just uninstall them if games gave out demos they would lose this pirate
    ...
    Agreed.
    I pirate however only for Apps / games without a free / trial version and ONLY for about 30mins (the 15min refund window IMO isn't enough especially with a large size game).
    After the 30mins is done I (without exception) either uninstall as it didn't do what I hoped / was looking for or I purchase it outright legitimately.

    I know it doesn't make it "right" but IMO it's less wrong than keeping a pirated App / game installed or jailbreaking an iDevice & using the pirate stores for everything.


    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
  10. Thread Author  Thread Author    #10  

    Default Re: The Price of Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckeeDroid View Post
    As a child, in had downloaded "free" apps and music. Didn't really think much about it. Everyone did it.
    Now I know better. Ever since I grew up, I always pay for apps.
    I donate for apps if the quality is there or if the dev is actively improving towards quality.
    Theft is theft. Laws need to get tougher with software piracy.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    I think this is why having a quality discussion about the issue is important. A lot of people simply don't think about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by jean15paul View Post
    I think anti-piracy is one of the things that is driving so many apps toward IAPs. You can't pirate IAPs. Give the game away, but get people to pay while playing.
    I agree that changing models is one way that developers protect against piracy, but there are ways to get around the IAP restrictions. You may not "pirate" the game, but you can unlock all of the features or get completely unlocked versions. I think the point is that there is not ever going to be a 100% effective way to protect against piracy - there's always going to be someone out there who can find a way around the DRM, etc. So to really "fight" piracy, we as developers need to have a different perspective. Help from the community is definitely one huge aspect of making piracy less desirable.

    Quote Originally Posted by youngville718 View Post
    I wont front I pirate games and apps to test it out if I like them then I buy it if not then I just uninstall them if games gave out demos they would lose this pirate

    Sent from my SPH-D710BST using Tapatalk 2
    I don't think most developers would have a problem with this. Maintaining and keeping demo versions is additional work that some developers would rather spend in maintaining and improving the main app. We spend additional time on our apps that would go directly towards adding features, fixing bugs, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhoj View Post
    Agreed.
    I pirate however only for Apps / games without a free / trial version and ONLY for about 30mins (the 15min refund window IMO isn't enough especially with a large size game).
    After the 30mins is done I (without exception) either uninstall as it didn't do what I hoped / was looking for or I purchase it outright legitimately.

    I know it doesn't make it "right" but IMO it's less wrong than keeping a pirated App / game installed or jailbreaking an iDevice & using the pirate stores for everything.


    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
    This might be an area where Google could make a difference...if enough users complain, maybe they would consider extending the time period to half an hour or an hour. It would actually give users enough time to test it out (although I still prefer the 24 hour period) and save developers time in responding to emails/issues from people who weren't able to fully test the app within the 15 minutes but still want a refund, etc. If someone isn't happy with one of our apps, I don't want to take their money, but it would be easier if they had an appropriate amount of time so they could determine that and get the refund automatically.
    Thanked by:
  11. #11  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simplyapplied View Post
    This might be an area where Google could make a difference...if enough users complain, maybe they would consider extending the time period to half an hour or an hour...
    I think 24hrs is too long but 15mins far too short. 30mins - 1hr would be great.
    Also have it so the timer starts when the App is launched so if extra data is needed (like Gameloft games) you still have time test it.
  12. #12  

    Default Re: The Price of Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhoj View Post
    I think 24hrs is too long but 15mins far too short. 30mins - 1hr would be great.
    Also have it so the timer starts when the App is launched so if extra data is needed (like Gameloft games) you still have time test it.
    My vote would be for a 2 - 4 hour return policy. I think everyone agrees that 15 minutes is too short.

    With large games you have the download and install time, and also some games dive right in with the action, but others take awhile to really get started. For example in Dead Space you've got 30 minutes of gameplay before you even encounter the first enemy.

    Similarly with a lot of apps (especially productivity apps) a quick 10 minute test doesn't paint a full picture. You've got to really use the app which might take some time.

    I know Google and devs are worried about people buying an app right when they need it, using it and then returning it. But in my (non-dev, uninformed) opinion, if you don't want people doing that then build a more compelling app.

    Maybe even let the dev set the timeline for returns (with recommended guidelines). ... WHOA! ... I just typed that without even thinking about it, but I feel like it's a genius idea. Let the dev set the return deadline. The dev knows how long it takes to get a feel for his app. He can set the deadline. And the community can "police" devs who aren't reasonable. Brilliant, I'm submitting this for patent, now!
  13. #13  
    Tkbredx's Avatar

    Posts
    1,856 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,857 Global Posts
    ROM
    TeamSonicFreeGS3 v9.1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jean15paul View Post
    I think anti-piracy is one of the things that is driving so many apps toward IAPs. You can't pirate IAPs. Give the game away, but get people to pay while playing.
    Oh yes you can. At least on iOS you can.

    I'm sorry it has come down to the devs but all the money Apple had taken from me I've probably taken right back.

    Ios jail break let's you get in app purchases for free. Man have I had a field day lol. Everything from AP books for school to no ads, to upgrades for games. I've done it all. On android not so much. I tried out tasker for a day via pirating. If I liked it I would've bought it but I didn't do I uninstalled it and kept moving. Only time I will ever pirate is to try out apps temporarily
  14. #14  

    Default

    What is the definition you are using for piracy? Is a free app always pirated? I guess I was under the impression those were offered for free at the discretion of the dev? I didn't think much of free app vs paid unless you didn't want ads etc. Guess I would be considered those who don't know they are pirating as my definition would be copying and distribution of a product that is illegal. Does this not apply here?

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Android Central Forums
  15. #15  

    Default

    I think devs should stop fighting piracy and make great games. The energy you put into that DRM crap coulda went into improving the app.

    If people want to pirate they will

    Make them free and get paid from ads.



    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
  16. #16  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hustleman View Post
    ...
    Make them free and get paid from ads.
    ...
    Hell no!

    I'd much rather it be upgradeable to paid via an IAP than ads, I absolutely cannot stand ads in games or Apps and feel quite strongly about it.
    If an App / game has no way of removing ads then I remove that App / game and find a similar one that does. Simple as that.
  17. #17  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhoj View Post
    Hell no!

    I'd much rather it be upgradeable to paid via an IAP than ads, I absolutely cannot stand ads in games or Apps and feel quite strongly about it.
    If an App / game has no way of removing ads then I remove that App / game and find a similar one that does. Simple as that.
    That's another option, upgrading to a paid version.

    I don't care about ads as long as they aren't intrusive. A small banner at the bottom of the screen never hurt

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
  18. #18  

    Default Re: The Price of Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by drmaf894c View Post
    What is the definition you are using for piracy? Is a free app always pirated? I guess I was under the impression those were offered for free at the discretion of the dev? I didn't think much of free app vs paid unless you didn't want ads etc. Guess I would be considered those who don't know they are pirating as my definition would be copying and distribution of a product that is illegal. Does this not apply here?

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Android Central Forums
    You definition is correct. Installing an app that intended to be free is fine. It's when you download and install paid apps for free from piracy websites ... that's piracy.

Posting Permissions

B