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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    Wtf first off please work on your English good sir that was a garbled mess. Second where did half of those statements come from I'm fairly confused on who you're trying to convince. Oh and on the subject if it wasn't for the ipod apple would still be an obscure tiny niche that few knew existed. Its only since the original iPod that they have had any prevailing influence I will admit their mobile products are good but their PC's are to me as they always have been nothing to bother with.

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  2. #177  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Ya, it's fine Shadow man. We got what you were saying. I don't disagree with you in terms of how Apple has pushed the mobile industry but many companies deserve credit for that. Motorola, Palm, Sony and BlackBerry have all contributed to the industry. Would we have had an ipod without a Sony Walkman? And let's not forget Karl-Heinz Brandenburg who invented the MP3. And heck let's throw Linux in the mix too. These are all important companies that have contributed. Apple may have found a way to monetize and market their products better than anyone else but they certainly don't deserve all the credit. And they also don't own the ideas in regards to what their technology. Read this whole thread. There are tons of great links. This one not the least of them

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  3. #178  

    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    Wtf first off please work on your English good sir that was a garbled mess. Second where did half of those statements come from I'm fairly confused on who you're trying to convince. Oh and on the subject if it wasn't for the ipod apple would still be an obscure tiny niche that few knew existed. Its only since the original iPod that they have had any prevailing influence I will admit their mobile products are good but their PC's are to me as they always have been nothing to bother with.

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    First of all sorry for my english, im not native english spreaker and i'm aware that my gramma sux. In case of iPad. If you go back to days when it was first announce and you love Android tablets you gonna be suppriced what people been talking back then, lot of people talking that it useless and it's just oversize iPod touch that you can't run Photoshop on it, even some Apple fans was saying that as most of them expected OS X tablet, why? Because back then tablets was seen as PC Laptop without keyboard (which been in edge of existence) what people didn't like is that they placed limited (by it's purpace, Android is limited to compire to desktop systems) mobile OS insted of OS X, only similar notable product that actually iPad been compared was Kindle... which back then it was e-paper device design for reading ebooks, lot people believed that it also goes againts netbooks. Here how opinions looked like back then:



    It turns out it actully works, everyone on mobile market started to make tablets like that too, Kindle throw away it's e-paper origin and turn in to lcd tablet too and MS (unfortunly for desktop users) went crazy and turn Windows to tablet OS to rebirth there desktop PC tablet idea and make there iPad equivalent. Tablet with mobile OS become couch device exacly as Steve Jobs demo it (oh i forgot to mention back then some people was worried how you gonna carry it around). Everybody magically forgot BS what they been saying back then and no body is against tablets with non-desktop system anymore.

    In case of Flash i think i don't need to tell how that story goes as it was talked on Android side too

    Quote Originally Posted by badbrad17 View Post
    Ya, it's fine Shadow man. We got what you were saying. I don't disagree with you in terms of how Apple has pushed the mobile industry but many companies deserve credit for that. Motorola, Palm, Sony and BlackBerry have all contributed to the industry. Would we have had an ipod without a Sony Walkman? And let's not forget Karl-Heinz Brandenburg who invented the MP3. And heck let's throw Linux in the mix too. These are all important companies that have contributed. Apple may have found a way to monetize and market their products better than anyone else but they certainly don't deserve all the credit. And they also don't own the ideas in regards to what their technology. Read this whole thread. There are tons of great links. This one not the least of them

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    Yea i not disaggree to that too thru i disagree that Apple is just iPhone because it cleary isn't. But one small correction, there Mech/Xen/Darwin kernel is fork of BSD not Linux, ofcorse they both benifit each other as they are unix-like system so they got thing in common.... so i guess Unix should be credited here Also as i know Apple preferences AAC over MP3
  4. #179  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowriver View Post
    Yea i not disaggree to that too thru i disagree that Apple is just iPhone because it cleary isn't. But one small correction, there Mech/Xen/Darwin kernel is fork of BSD not Linux, ofcorse they both benifit each other as they are unix-like system so they got thing in common.... so i guess Unix should be credited here Also as i know Apple preferences AAC over MP3
    Sorry I actually meant to write Unix but said Linux.

    As for flash the big argument I have always had is Apple kills things before it's time. It could be argued that the floppy disk was not needed yet our office was in chaos for a year having to try to move files onto our Macs because our backups were on floppies. Now I heard they will be also dropping the DVD drive before its time. Same problem.

    I actually develop Web software and although I have been talking clients out of frivolous flash animated websites for years, there were still things that Flash does that are far faster than having to code them in Java script or HTML 5. I'm not saying we wouldn't eventually get there but when Apple dropped Flash is seriously cost me money to go in and change a lot of things and also it took us a lot longer to develop some things that were easy to do with Flash. Lots of tech evolves, but I am for letting it die naturally and not just when Apple decides it.

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  5. #180  

    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by badbrad17 View Post
    Sorry I actually meant to write Unix but said Linux.

    As for flash the big argument I have always had is Apple kills things before it's time. It could be argued that the floppy disk was not needed yet our office was in chaos for a year having to try to move files onto our Macs because our backups were on floppies. Now I heard they will be also dropping the DVD drive before its time. Same problem.

    I actually develop Web software and although I have been talking clients out of frivolous flash animated websites for years, there were still things that Flash does that are far faster than having to code them in Java script or HTML 5. I'm not saying we wouldn't eventually get there but when Apple dropped Flash is seriously cost me money to go in and change a lot of things and also it took us a lot longer to develop some things that were easy to do with Flash. Lots of tech evolves, but I am for letting it die naturally and not just when Apple decides it.

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    And it's dying (the plug-in ofcorse) naturally practically by Adobe decision, they could continue support but they know thy on the way and so they moved on contributing to HTML5 so they can make Flash output JS.
  6. #181  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowriver View Post
    And it's dying (the plug-in ofcorse) naturally practically by Adobe decision, they could continue support but they know thy on the way and so they moved on contributing to HTML5 so they can make Flash output JS.
    Yes which is good. I just wish apple waited until adobe and everyone else was ready instead of foisting their decision on the entire planet. Face it. The experience has been a s**t show for nearly 2 years.

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  7. #182  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by badbrad17 View Post
    ...but when Apple dropped Flash..
    Last I checked, OS X has a Flash plugin available. Apple didn't drop Flash there.

    And last I checked, iOS never supported a Flash plugin. Apple never supported Flash here so there is nothing for Apple to "drop".

    I think I know what you're trying to say here, but it's incorrect.

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    Last edited by Ry; 12-18-2012 at 01:14 AM.
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  8. #183  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Yeah but if you are gonna put out the most popular phone on the planet and not support it, it is a decent shove.

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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by piizzadude View Post
    Yeah but if you are gonna put out the most popular phone on the planet and not support it, it is a decent shove.

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    Again, I'm pretty sure I get what he's trying to say but saying it that way is technically incorrect.

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  10. #185  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    No argument on the technicality

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  11. #186  

    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ry View Post
    Last I checked, OS X has a Flash plugin available. Apple didn't drop Flash there.

    And last I checked, iOS never supported a Flash plugin. Apple never supported Flash here so there is nothing for Apple to "drop".

    I think I know what you're trying to say here, but it's incorrect.

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    Well in case of OS X, Adobe don't need to even ask Apple. Thru Adobe drop development on Linux (might be related to Android drop?), they left OS X probably because they relese editing software on it
  12. #187  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ry View Post
    Again, I'm pretty sure I get what he's trying to say but saying it that way is technically incorrect.

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    It's mainly the way they go about it. They either don't support it or decide to remove it and don't care how much it inconveniences their customers. Oh sorry, here's a new lightening cable. Sorry all your expensive accessories don't work. It's the same thing with how they dealt with Flash. It was never a positive for anyone.

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  13. #188  

    Default Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by badbrad17 View Post
    It's mainly the way they go about it. They either don't support it or decide to remove it and don't care how much it inconveniences their customers. Oh sorry, here's a new lightening cable. Sorry all your expensive accessories don't work. It's the same thing with how they dealt with Flash. It was never a positive for anyone.

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    It was never negative either. If anything, the lack of flash pushed alternatives like HTML 5 forward much, much faster.

    Also, I see you're trying to bring lightning into the argument, but what they did is no different than the move from miniUSB to microUSB, or from any of the proprietary cables to microusb. Is it not convenient? Yes. But was it absolutely necessary? Yes.
  14. #189  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by badbrad17 View Post
    It's mainly the way they go about it. They either don't support it or decide to remove it and don't care how much it inconveniences their customers. Oh sorry, here's a new lightening cable. Sorry all your expensive accessories don't work. It's the same thing with how they dealt with Flash. It was never a positive for anyone.

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    So it's hate for hates sake?

    Apple didn't kill Flash. Apple was under no obligation to support it on mobile.


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    Last edited by Ry; 12-18-2012 at 01:07 AM.
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  15. #190  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHBThree View Post
    It was never negative either. If anything, the lack of flash pushed alternatives like HTML 5 forward much, much faster.

    Also, I see you're trying to bring lightning into the argument, but what they did is no different than the move from miniUSB to microUSB, or from any of the proprietary cables to microusb. Is it not convenient? Yes. But was it absolutely necessary? Yes.
    Ah. I had so many left over mini USB cables.

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  16. #191  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHBThree View Post
    It was never negative either. If anything, the lack of flash pushed alternatives like HTML 5 forward much, much faster.

    Also, I see you're trying to bring lightning into the argument, but what they did is no different than the move from miniUSB to microUSB, or from any of the proprietary cables to microusb. Is it not convenient? Yes. But was it absolutely necessary? Yes.
    Okay I get what your saying but let me put it in this perspective. Maybe you will agree, maybe not. The mini to micro usb was really only a cable change. This is a minor inconvenience. Similar to having a different charger for my transformer prime as it needs more juice. I can live with that. But changing the charger when so many people have invested in other accessories was a much different situation. The lightening cable is nothing more than a new fangled usb, so I would ask why they wouldn't just stick with what everyone else uses so people are not inconvenienced.

    This is similar to the Flash thing. Html 5 is still not ready for prime time. It was only just recently validated by W3, yet flash was dropped. I know all the reasons why and some of the logic is sound. This is my business. But the backlash, inconvenience and added cost that occurs due to a premature change does not justify the benefit.

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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ry View Post
    So it's hate for hates sake?

    Apple didn't kill Flash. Apple was under no obligation to support it on mobile.

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    It's not hate at all. It's an unnecessary inconvenience that has cost many people time, money and also a loss of an available service that still had value. We all can agree that Flash was dying but we need to allow users to adapt to the change rather than just drop it. Flash was still very much intertwined in day to day technology. Apple had the upper hand with their product and chose to strong arm their customers. Personally this is one reason I have never truly embraced Apple. They are like a abusive school master who thinks they know everything. It's an abuse of power that is self centric and not customer centric.

    Just my experience from a personal and business perspective. And I know that I am not alone in this on both sides of the argument. I've had the conversation with many people over the years.

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  18. #193  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ry View Post
    Ah. I had so many left over mini USB cables.

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    Imagine how you would feel if these were $400 speaker systems or alarm clocks etc. That usb cable was nothing. In 2 years an old apple connected device will be garbage ready for the dump. Not very environmentally friendly either.

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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by badbrad17 View Post
    It's not hate at all. It's an unnecessary inconvenience that has cost many people time, money and also a loss of an available service that still had value. We all can agree that Flash was dying but we need to allow users to adapt to the change rather than just drop it. Flash was still very much intertwined in day to day technology. Apple had the upper hand with their product and chose to strong arm their customers. Personally this is one reason I have never truly embraced Apple. They are like a abusive school master who thinks they know everything. It's an abuse of power that is self centric and not customer centric.

    Just my experience from a personal and business perspective. And I know that I am not alone in this on both sides of the argument. I've had the conversation with many people over the years.

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    Again, especially in the case of mobile, you can't drop what never existed.

    Did Windows Mobile support Flash?

    Did BlackBerry support Flash?

    Did webOS support Flash? (Actually I don't know the answer to this one)

    This is not Apple's fault.

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  20. #195  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by badbrad17 View Post
    Imagine how you would feel if these were $400 speaker systems or alarm clocks etc. That usb cable was nothing. In 2 years an old apple connected device will be garbage ready for the dump. Not very environmentally friendly either.

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    In 2 years, Apple will probably still be selling the 4S. It's not like these devices stop working because there's a new connector on newer devices.



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  21. #196  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ry View Post
    Again, especially in the case of mobile, you can't drop what never existed.

    Did Windows Mobile support Flash?

    Did BlackBerry support Flash?

    Did webOS support Flash? (Actually I don't know the answer to this one)

    This is not Apple's fault.

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    It's a matter of choosing to include an essential service. This is why Microsoft chose to include it on the Surface tablet even 2 years later. Windows Mobile and BlackBerry were not capable of supporting Flash. There's a huge difference. I can't believe you are making this argument other than for arguments sake.

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  22. #197  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ry View Post
    In 2 years, Apple will probably still be selling the 4S. It's not like these devices stop working because there's a new connector on newer devices.

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    Lol. Okay you officially lost cred and became a fanboy. Sorry. I honestly misjudged you, but you are throwing in speculation of maintaining an old product to justify the over priced walled garden. It's sad. I thought you were smarter than that.

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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by badbrad17 View Post
    It's a matter of choosing to include an essential service. This is why Microsoft chose to include it on the Surface tablet even 2 years later. Windows Mobile and BlackBerry were not capable of supporting Flash. There's a huge difference. I can't believe you are making this argument other than for arguments sake.

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    I can't believe you think Apple is responsible for Flash's death on mobile.

    Can you admit that the wording "Apple dropped Flash" for mobile is incorrect? It really isn't an argument for argument's sake. It's technically wrong to say that and others here can see that. That's really the only point I was trying to make with regards to Flash but you seem to want to make it something bigger.

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  24. #199  
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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ry View Post
    I can't believe you think Apple is responsible for Flash's death on mobile.

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    I never said they were responsible for Flash's death. Did you not read what I said?

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    Default Re: Thought this was funny and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by badbrad17 View Post
    Lol. Okay you officially lost cred and became a fanboy. Sorry. I honestly misjudged you, but you are throwing in speculation of maintaining an old product to justify the over priced walled garden. It's sad. I thought you were smarter than that.

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    lol.

    I could say the same thing about your views and speculation on Flash but I don't need to call you a fanboy to prove anything or make me feel better about myself.

    Do previous products stop working because a new connector is made? Nope. That is a fact.


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