[Podcast] Let's talk about the U.S. Galaxy S Froyo update

[Unknown User]

I find it hard to believe that the cause of the delay is because US carriers refuse to pay Samsung fees for the update. Isn't the Android OS an open source operating system? That's like someone wanting to charge me a fee for breathing air because I walked into their house.

That whole story sounds too fishy and probably designed to rile up some anger. I'd say the reason why the OP didn't submit it to other sites is probably because they would do some research on the story before posting, and call him/her out on trying to troll the Samsung Galaxy user base.

For me, I'm going to speculate that the delay for the 2.2 update is probably because of the US carrier's bloatware.

 

[angus_3]

Well to begin i will never buy another samsung product from this point forward. I love the screen and the general shape of the device, but when i purchased the phone i read EVERYWHERE, and i was assured by the VZW rep that i would receive my 2.2 update sometime in late September/early November. However, like all of us with galaxy S phones know that was a horrible untruth. My biggest issue with this lack of update is the absence of Flash which is in large part the major reason i went with android.

I guess the thing that makes me so frustrated is the fact that we are complaining about how we dont have an OS that is A YEAR OLD! That is unacceptable! I mean come on.....there is a samsung device out right now running gingerbread and here all of us galaxy S users are begging for 2.2! thats just despicable.

 

[Viper]

I had an interesting conversation with Verizon chat yesterday. While it mostly revolves around the broken DL09 Fascinate update, I did ask about Froyo. It turned out to be a complete waste of time.

Note: I am David. Jonathan is the VW rep.

info: Please wait for a Chat Representative to respond.
info: Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless. My name is 'Jonathan', how may I assist you?
David: I would like to know why my Fascinate has not received Android 2.2 yet and why it can no longer connect to my computer with the recent DL09 update?
Jonathan: The update is being done in stages. When it is ready for your device, you will receive a notification on your phone. Have you tried to do it manually?
David: I have received the DL09 update.
David: Has 2.2 been pushed to the Fascinate?
Jonathan: No, there hasn't been a date established yet. When it is ready, it will be pushed to the device.
David: So how long will I have to wait for the problems with DL09 to be fixed?
Jonathan: There is not a date that I can give you since this isn't available.
David: Isn't it a little ridiculous that I paid $200 for a phone that doesn't work properly? Is that normal for Verizon to sell phones that don't fully function?
Jonathan: Since we don't make the software, it is hard to say what is happening with your phone. So your phone doesn't fully work? What will it not do?
David: It will no longer connect to my computer so that I can transfer files back and forth. Also my GPS still takes 5 minutes or more to get a sattelite lock, which essentially renders it useless.
David: But don't you test the software before sending it out? Based on what I have seen with other Fascinate owners, these problems are very widespread.
Jonathan: Yes, it is tested and this is not an issue with all of the devices. If you'd like, I can look at your options for replacement.
Jonathan: Before I can access your account, can you verify the billing password on your account?
David: ******
David: DL09 update for the Samsung Fascinate brings a mounting headache for many | Android Central
David: Latest Verizon Fascinate Maintenance Upgrade Killed Your USB Mounting? | Android Phone Fans
David: these articles suggest otherwise
Jonathan: I am referring to the billing password. It can only be up to five characters.
David: ****
Jonathan: That doesn't mean they are recognized by the manufacturer.
Jonathan: I can send you a replacement device under warranty.
David: I don't want another Fascinate. I want Verizon to recognize that they screwed up with the Fascinate and want reassurance that something is being done to correct it.
David: Another Fascinate is not going to fix the issue here.
Jonathan: There are only certain devices that are having this issue and under warranty, you will receive a Certified Like-New Fascinate.
David: That is not acceptable. I don't want a new phone.
David: Would another Fascinate have these issues fixed and have the Android 2.2 update I was promised 4 months ago when I bought my phone?
Jonathan: It will come to the device when it is ready, but unfortunately there isn't any further information on this.
Jonathan: So you do not want the replacement device?
David: I also have 5 friends who have the same issues with their Fascinate so I highly doubt another one is going to have working GPS and will connect to my computer
David: No I don't.
David: But considering the problems this phone has had over the last 4 months, I think it would be fair to credit my account for the cost of the phone.
Jonathan: At this time, this is your option. If you would like to have this device ordered, you may contact Customer Service. I am giving you options for replacement of the device. Therefore a credit is not waranted.
David: A new phone will not fix my issues.
Jonathan: I am sorry you feel that way.
David: I guess I will continue to use a device that doesn't work and pay just as much for it as others with other phone models that work flawlessly. That really seems fair.
Jonathan: Which is why I am offering to replace the device.
Jonathan: I have 2 of the same devices that have not experienced this issue. So there is not an issue with all of the phones.
David: As I stated before, I know of 6 of these phones personally that have the same issues. There is a very high chance that another Fascinate will still be broken.
David: But whatever I guess there is nothing else I can do.
Jonathan: Okay. You are going to keep your current device?
David: Yes.
David: Have a good day.
Jonathan: Okay. You too!
Jonathan: Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless. We appreciate your business. Please click 'End Chat' button above to end the chat session.

 

[icebike]

Theory 502:

I have NOTHING to back this up, other than circumstantial evidence:

All the Galaxy phones on major carriers hit at about the same time in a coup de main link no other manufacturer has been able to achieve.

What if one of the terms that Sammy had to agree to in order to achieve this marketing blitz was that no carrier would get updates before the others.

That would allow for one problematic situation holding all others back.

Just speculating. But from a carriers point of view it might appear as if Sammy was holding back, when all they were doing is living up to their contract.

 

[zeravla531]

Here is what i have learned personally from all of this.

For me, the only thing they can do that would make me happy is skip Froyo and say "We are updating all US Galaxy S to Gingerbread on March 1st" or something like that, as i mentioned earlier.

At this point if they update to Froyo tomorrow, it's still terrible. This phone came out on August 31 when Froyo was available since May. We were all promised a quick update to Froyo, then "before the new year" and now it's "we will have news soon, promise!".

Unless the Gingerbread thing happens, this will be my LAST Samsung product regardless of Froyo or not.

I will purchase HTC or Motorola (if Sprint ever gets a Motorola Android phone) from now on.

 

[valueman]

I would like to hear to general discussions about the whole menatility that the tech savvy smartphone users have about updates.

When it comes to OS updates we (at least many of us) expect them, and we expect them for free (of course). We expect it because that is the way it has been, at or at least that’s how it has been for many.

The recent outrage about Froyo on Galaxy S phones could stir Samsung to get on the stick. But I see a chance that it could have the opposite effect – on all manufacturers.

A little over a year ago I bought my Captivate I also bought some netbooks from AT&T for our staff to use in the field. They were running Windows XP. I don’t expect AT&T to provide OS updates for those computers. Such a notion seems silly, but that’s what we expect for our smartphones.

Smartphones are really nothing more than small computers. So what if those who sell smartphones just take the same attitude as those who sell bigger computers? You buy it with an OS, and if you want to change it, that’s on you.

 

[Paralegal99]

Who waits for official updates? Root baby Root!!

In all seriousness, I think as long as they say they are updating we should just sit back and wait. We don't ask team douche for eta's, why should carriers be any different.

With all due respect...rooting and flashing custom ROMs are not the solution for everybody. Look at all the different ROMS out there on XDA and here. They are all good and I can't say enough good things about the developers who pour their heart and souls into creating them...but after hours of reviewing them all...it seems it's hit and miss with the ROMs. There seems to be little problems or features that don't work that causes someone like me to hesitate in going down that road. If there was an official Froyo code released for each of the Galaxy S phones for the developers to use to put together the ROMs...that would be more than great...unfortunately, what I see is the developers are trying to piece together ROMs with bits and pieces from other Froyo developments for other phones...and it seems that can be problematic. If Samsung and/or the carriers don't want to update...then release the code into the wild and let the developers do what Samsung or carriers can't or won't do.

After listening to last weeks podcast...all I ask of the hosts is not to be Samsung apologists. Please just don't say..."I don't know why Samsung is not releasing the update"...then dismiss any and all other speculations and theories. Not all speculations and theories are necessarily "Conspiracy Theories". What really got me going was when one of the hosts stated how he knew and had all these inside contacts...but hasn't seen fit to use those same contacts for some information. At least comment on how badly Samsung is handling this whole debacle with the various tweets and releases that does nothing to inform the people who bought their product about the upgrades. This just fans the fire even hotter. Samsung needs to stop releasing vauge information and let the people know what the hell is going on! I am very much looking forward to hearing this week's podcast. I do enjoy listening to the opinions and reviews...but hopefully a little more objective regarding this issue than last week.
Paralegal99

 

[icebike]

I would like to hera to general discussions about the whole menatility that the tech savvy smartphone users have about updates.

When it comes to OS updates we (at least many of us) expect them, and we expect them for free (of course). We expect it because that is the way it has been, at or at least that?s how it has been for many.

You pretty much answered your own question while asking it.

The world changed with the arrival of computers and the death of desktop calculators.

The world has changed with the arrival of the smart-phone and the death of feature phones and dumb as a rock phones.

No one would buy a computer that could never ever be upgraded. Its why we do things with computers. We know they can be upgraded rather than being tossed out for a new one.

Even your mom understands that a smartphone is a computer. Why would anyone expect that it could NOT or should NOT get updated to fix bugs an add features when the OS we all chose to use is designed PRECISELY for that?

Its not an entitlement mentality, its the primary reason for choosing Android.

 

[uansari1]

Regardless of what really is or isn't going on behind the scenes, many people seem to be missing the point. Samsung is either (1) screwing its existing customers in the hopes of selling new handsets; (2) holding updates hostage by wanting to charge carriers (Samsung has already said this isn't the case); or (3) Samsung is just plain inept and can't make timely updates.

Regardless of the reason, people should start voting with their wallets so that Samsung gets the message. You don't reasonably keep up with updates, we won't buy your phones. Money is the only thing corporations understand. I won't buy a Samsung handset (Nexus handsets aside) until Samsung has repaired its reputation... and in all fairness the same goes for Sony Ericcson.

 

[jfiguraMT]

Samsung and Verizon both need to realize the lack of communication has hurt each of them. Samsung with its great hardware has kicked its own reputation in the can because they have not followed through with their public statements.

Verizon, will and has taken financial hits in the form of lost equipment. For me, I was given a Droid X even though I purchased my Fascinate from an authorized dealer.

I was angry that the SF's GPS wouldn't work, that my first one had to replaced because it couldn't do OTA updates (according to Verizon there were over 10,000 devices with that defect), and I too was promised Froyo by Verizon rep.

The phone was/is still "laggy". It hesitates when opening the app drawer or other functions. Music player cannot handle having the equalizer enabled else it causes your music to skip. The media dock I bought, yes, no audio out etc without Froyo but this was not stated anywhere on the box, only inside the box in the manual.

I sent off two letters. One to Samsung, and one to Verizon's VP of customer experience. Guess who DID NOT respond?

Samsung will never get another dollar of my money. Whether it is phones, TV's, Blu Ray players, etc.

--JD

 

[icebike]

After listening to last weeks podcast...all I ask of the hosts is not to be Samsung apologists.

I'm not saying AC or the AC podcasters are apologists but there seems to be a big double standard.

Every leaked blurycam shot gets a front page story regardless of how dodgy the source.

But nothing is said about horrible customer service from a carrier or a manufacturer regardless of the preponderance of evidence, and regardless of how widely it is being reported even in the mainstream press.

The fact that the story has hit mainstream sources should at least rate a "we don't believe this but....." article. Instead: Crickets, or obscure chatter in the forums.

I could understand this approach if AC wanted to remain on the Good side of the carriers and manufacturers in order to assure access to evaluation units or other inside information. But at every turn AC denies any such special dealings, insisting they pay for every device.

"We think this is Bogus" should be followed by "And here is why", rather than "So we are not going to report it".

 

[mikellyny]

just one mans opinion

I would like to hera to general discussions about the whole menatility that the tech savvy smartphone users have about updates.

When it comes to OS updates we (at least many of us) expect them, and we expect them for free (of course). We expect it because that is the way it has been, at or at least that?s how it has been for many.

The recent outrage about Froyo on Galaxy S phones could stir Samsung to get on the stick. But I see a chance that it could have the opposite effect ? on all manufacturers.

A little over a year ago I bought my Captivate I also bought some netbooks from AT&T for our staff to use in the field. They were running Windows XP. I don?t expect AT&T to provide OS updates for those computers. Such a notion seems silly, but that?s what we expect for our smartphones.

Smartphones are really nothing more than small computers. So what if those who sell smartphones just take the same attitude as those who sell bigger computers? You buy it with an OS, and if you want to change it, that?s on you.

I sort of like this idea, but, I think that we still need to be notified when an update is available (ala Windows or Linux updates). We would need some sort of update utility that would check our device against a known server and if updates were available perhaps allow us some sort of selection and then update. I could live with this over the air or through a computer connection.

The way things stand right now it appears we are at the mercy of the carriers and that is just not tenable. As many above I purchased my EPIC 4G back in August with the expectation of Froyo (to be delivered soon) and as of today still no Froyo.

Just my two cents.

 

[Paralegal99]

Tech Journalist & Bloggers

It is unrealistic that tech journalists and bloggers don't report and/or review products from any company....say like...Samsung for example. But what I would like to see in the future is that for any new product that is reported on or reviewed that a disclaimer is attached (vocally or in writing) indicating that the company has a reputation for not supporting previous products with updates or upgrades, or consistently issues misleading statements and/or vague statements regarding previously released products.

Information like this can then provide "whole picture" information for anyone contemplating on buying a companies product.

I honestly believe that if this became a standard practice, companies would be more attentive to supporting previously released products. Can you imagine reading or listen to a glowing review of a product...only to end with a disclaimer that the company has a history of abandoning their previous products? Yeah...that would make me take notice!

Paralegal99

 

[icebike]

I sort of like this idea, but, I think that we still need to be notified when an update is available (ala Windows or Linux updates).

Just my two cents.

What we need is for someone to pour some big money on CyanogenMod and have them become a business with an reliable income stream and a member of the Open Handset Alliance so that there was a viable third party alternative.

 

[doz]

Ok, I'll start off by saying I'm an Epic owner from nearly the beginning. Perhaps I've been lucky but I have not encountered any of the major issues (gps, etc) people have reported. I'm not the biggest fan of what Samsung is doing (or more not doing) recently but really I don't care since I'm happy with it as is. Delayed/canceled updates are something that every manufacturer does, I remember waiting a very long time for HTC to update my previous phones to the point where I went ahead and did it myself via xda. Now I know rooting, etc is not for everyone but if it isn't your thing, and you are not happy with the phone you purchased, why did you keep it? A smartphone isn't a trivial purchase, you should be completely happy with it out of the box. Nowhere in your contract is the manufacturer committed to updated anything on the phone, yes we expect it but outside of warranty issues they really have no obligations. Most of them will probably go a step further because its good business to keep your customers happy but again, they are not required to.
That said, Samsung you've probably lost me as a future customer. The entire lack of transparency with the updates is bs, if there are problems releasing it just let us know, and that goes for any manufacturer.

 

[JMusic]

The lack of transparency is a large issue. A large portion of the people who are currently upset might be placated by some factual information.

For the rest of us...

There is something fishy, and I am not sure that I am willing to buy in to the response Samsung made that "Samsung is not charging carriers for Froyo updates to Galaxy S."

In fact, my cynical mind and law firm background makes me think, well, of course they aren't charging carriers for Froyo updates to "Galaxy S". The "Galaxy S" wasn't even released in the U.S. and that model is already updated anyway, the charges already paid. The hold up is because they are charging carriers for Froyo updates to "Epic", "Fascinate", etc.

Yeah, working in a law firm will make you distrust everybody, especially corporations, because you see this sort of word twisting actually happen on a daily basis.

 

[icebike]

Yeah, working in a law firm will make you distrust everybody, especially corporations, because you see this sort of word twisting actually happen on a daily basis.

"There will never be another Nexus One" (Google)
"Steve Jobs has a hormonal imbalance" (Apple)

Yeah, it happens.

 

[ctleng76]

Ok, I'll start off by saying I'm an Epic owner from nearly the beginning. Perhaps I've been lucky but I have not encountered any of the major issues (gps, etc) people have reported. I'm not the biggest fan of what Samsung is doing (or more not doing) recently but really I don't care since I'm happy with it as is. Delayed/canceled updates are something that every manufacturer does, I remember waiting a very long time for HTC to update my previous phones to the point where I went ahead and did it myself via xda. Now I know rooting, etc is not for everyone but if it isn't your thing, and you are not happy with the phone you purchased, why did you keep it? A smartphone isn't a trivial purchase, you should be completely happy with it out of the box. Nowhere in your contract is the manufacturer committed to updated anything on the phone, yes we expect it but outside of warranty issues they really have no obligations. Most of them will probably go a step further because its good business to keep your customers happy but again, they are not required to.
That said, Samsung you've probably lost me as a future customer. The entire lack of transparency with the updates is bs, if there are problems releasing it just let us know, and that goes for any manufacturer.

So you don't care about receiving the updates. Well good for you! I wish I could say the same. Some of us purchased this phone based on a statement from Samsung that it would receive an update to 2.2 by the end of 2010. To me that is a form of false advertising. I understand delays and such, but there hasn't been any sort of reassurance by Samsung that there will even be an update. Nor have there been any reasons given for the delay. Samsung obviously hung the upgrade carrot out there to influence customers to purchase their products. I feel that all of this complaining is healthy. It keeps companies like Samsung and the carriers honest, and forces them to be more transparent about these issues.

 

[broken925]

So... I've had the Epic since launch day. Was diggin' on the phone - a lot. Loaded the DK28 Froyo leak when it was posted a while back and have been diggin' the phone even more.

Sure there were issues at the beginning - the phone bogged down about a couple of weeks into the leaked build but a factory restore fixed it up (but I lost my Angry Birds progress - three stars all the way to the Christmas Eve level - still haven't gone back to the game. Too heartbroken GPS is okaaay - sometimes I get a quick lock, other times not so much. Using LauncherPro to hide the bloatware that Sprint deemed necessary to load on the phone (since no love for us Macintosh users in the developer community making it difficult to root.) I guess the whole point of this intro was to show that you have to go through a ton of stuff just to get a user experience that is comfortable for the individual - in this case, me.

As for a general release of Froyo across the entire Galaxy S line... What I don't understand is:

1) Outside the U.S. they have all been updated, why is it so difficult to do it here? (and carrier bloatware can't be the reason - not across all 4 carriers)

And, more importantly,

2) The Nexus S is almost the SAME DANG PHONE and it's running 2.3

You (Sammy) expect us to believe that the differences are so vast between the international S lines and the Nexus S that you can't make this happen?

This is supposed to be your flagship line of smartphones and it's like Fisher Price is running the show.

I don't get it.

 

[j_benj#AC]

I've been working with the Adobe AIR for Android extension for Flash CS5 for a while and I can't test my own apps on my Epic without 2.2. Rooting and flashing a custom ROM is a fine idea, but in all honesty, as a developer I need to test my apps on stock phones to guarantee the broadest compatibility.

For a couple of months I've been asking a friend of mine who has an EVO to test my apk's for me. While that's a nice thing, I can't keep expecting him to drop everything and let me install new versions every time I change one line of code.

When I bought my Epic back in late October, I asked specifically about the 2.2 update knowing that soon I would need it for this AIR development. The Sprint guy swore up, down, left, right and nine ways to Sunday that the update was days/weeks away and I'd have it before I knew it. Now here we are. I'm beyond my 30 day return period.. I'm stuck. And it's seriously hampering my development projects.

I accept my own responsibility in this.. I shouldn't have taken the Sprint rep's word for it. It's totally my fault that I'm in this mess. But that being said, Samsung themselves promised me Froyo by the "end of the year" (via Twitter from @GalaxySSupport) and it hasn't materialized. I would hope that there would be some courtesy to the customer base from Samsung and Sprint instead of the smarmy, cut/paste PR we've gotten from them on this.