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  1. #76  

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    My smartphone path started with serveral version of the Blackberry from T-Mobile and AT&T on a coporate account which never recieved updates. We got pretty good deals on the hardware that ran EDGE and really didn't think of software updates. My 1st personal smartphone was a HTC Tilt form AT&T running Win5 OS. The Tilt was upgraded to Win6.5 for free from a download on HTC's site. With the upgrade came many features and I thought that was the norm as I enjoyed my new look and feel/features.

    I was holding out for a Windows7 phone but Bill and company took way too long and my Tilt had seen better days. I thought my next best option was to get on the iPhone ban wagon but I was not willing to give up the simple task of cut and pasting. My Tilt out performed my wife's and friends iPhone3G so I look for an alternative.

    Android sounded pleasing as the iPhone4 had too many hicups; after a little research and a lot of comparison I opted for the AT&T Captivate. I felt I had the best phone on the market and was very pleased with the phone and myself. I would compare the Captivatet with friends iPhone4 doing speed test by typing in new URL in the default browser to see which would render the page first. As we tried to hit go at the same time to start the test my Captivate would ask if I wanted to use the default browser or the downloaded Dolphin browser. I would select the default browser and my Captivate would still render the web page before the iPhone4 would.

    The smarthphone path I just described prompted me to belive upgrades would come whenever the carrier or manufacture deem them necessary or appropriate. I later learned Smasung promised an upgrade to Froyo for the Galaxy S so I expected it afte reading all the hype of speed increases and features like being able to view Flash rich web pages. The more I read article on Android Cenral the more I wanted Froyo and the more I disliked Samsung.

    I own a Samsugn digital camera and a Samsung MemoryCam and are very pleased with their performance. I never expected to get firmware updates. If Samsung doesn't update my Captivate soon I will be looking for another brand of Android. OK; I will also take a peek at the iPhone5.
  2. #77  

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    My random thoughts on the matter....

    Someone is to be blamed.. someone is doing wrong to make a gain.... and it is the consumer/the companies best friend who is being driven away by it. I believe showing them just how much they are pushing us, the consumer away the more beneficial it will be, not just for the consumer, but for our developers.

    The only reason there is not an uproar worse than it is, is simply because of the HUGE NUMBER of leaks, or as I like to call them, hush-me-up-froyos, ha. Just enough to keep us going.

    It was 2 days after #neveragain started catching on Twitter, lo and behold another leak, and with a secondary boot loader.. possibly the final froyo?

    Sure would be nice if all the developers could get their hands on source...

    If android is going to be as successful as it can be, I don't think the end-user should have to consider what version of bloat the manufacturer puts over the stock android when purchasing a phone, but how can we not now?

    Hopefully this wall breaks down and manufacturers can be more open/quicker. THAT is when android will flourish.

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  3. #78  

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    The lack of communication from the carriers and Samsung is the problem here, and it's the reason for all the rumors that have been going around. Samsung supposedly responded to the latest rumor by saying that they are not charging for updates, but then just after that response, they say on their Twitter page that they do not comment on rumors or speculation.

    My question is if Samsung took the time to clear up the latest rumor, then why at the same time could they not post a brief statement on the progress towards releasing the update or at least what issues are being encountered.

    As far as the communication goes, U.S. Cellular didn't seem to have a problem notifying their customers about when to expect updates for their phones. I don't know if this is the same "policy" that other carriers have, but as far as Sprint goes, they seem to think that silence is the best policy. Sprint won't say anything until the update is officially ready for release. At least with the Hero, they provided a general timeframe in terms of what quarter in what year the update would be released.
  4. #79  

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    I would not be too demanding of sammy for froyo, but for them promising it and selling accessories that require it. With all the lies as a community I don't think it is unreasonable to do the following
    1. Every android site start and finish the day with a post "still no froyo for sammy!"
    2. Post a sticky in every galaxy s forum "still no froyo"
    3. Start all reviews of future sammy products with an all cap warning regarding sammy's unwillingness to follow through on promises like "TO START THIS REVIEW, DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT UNLESS YOU ARE COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH IT AS SHIPPED, SAMMY WILL NOT FOLLOW THROUGH WITH ANY PROMISED UPDATES. THEY WILL SAY ANYTHING TO SELL PRODUCT."
    That said I still would take the fascinate over any vzn offering.
  5. #80  

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    Quote Originally Posted by capitaltpt View Post
    I really think the answer to all of this is that manufacturers really need to stop including proprietary software on their phones. There was an article on AC a few days back that talked about how Sony admitted to making the mistake that people were more interested in the software than the hardware. I think this reigns true of most phone enthusiasts. I think most of us would agree that we purchased phones from the Galaxy S series because they had the top hardware out at the time.
    Agreed but the marketing jerks dont see it this way. That proprietary software is an exclusive feature(Even if everyone hates it, it will wow one or two grannies). Remember AT&T has gotten as draconian in the past as not letting you change the wallpaper on the phone away from one with their logo on it. To them its all about selling the brand. Lets be honest, when was the last time you asked a buddy "Wow what carrier phone is that?" before you asked about the phone? Unfortunately marketing thinks you do this.

    What I believe Samsung (and other manufacturers) really need to do is have stock android on all of their phones.
    I think this is where Google made their mistake with Android, unfortunately they had to in order to get market acceptance. Google provides an OS, and the cell phone manufacturers should only provide drivers. This removes the whole manufacturer/carrier issue from the equation and finally give the end users what they want. Upgrades to their phones without bologna. Yes this resembles the PC/OS business model but guess what, it works, it gives the EU the power to upgrade and keep his platform as long as he can stand to use it. The problem with this is the cell hardware manufacturers and the carriers would like for you to have to buy all new hardware every 6 months to make money and lock you into contracts so this will never happen.

    And before people start asking if this option would put people who choose to install the optional software in the same boat with updates that we're in now, Why can't they be installable and uninstallable?

    Just food for thought.
    I know with some custom roms on the captivate you can install and uninstall all the APK for all of the bloat. This is how the phone should come but again the carriers want to cram how exclusive and special they are down your throat. Something they will never learn it seems is that if the software for the phone is worthy people will WANT it and seek it out. If its crapware people want it gone. Its just like how AT&T likes to force phone numbers into the phone book on phones in a manner that makes them irremovable. I understand they want the avg Joe to have the # to check their balance, but if I want my balance I will find it out, don't clutter my phone with 10-20 entries I don't want or need and then FORBID me to erase them.
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  6. #81  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rahlquist View Post
    To them its all about selling the brand.... Yes this resembles the PC/OS business model but guess what, it works
    I think you made a lot of very good points in your posts.

    On thing that differentiates the smartphone market from the PC market is the subsidies provided by the carriers. Despite the pleadings of the AC guys, most still buy smartphones with a contract and a subsidy. If the carrier is going to do that, then from a business standpoint it is reasonable for them to expect something in return. It appears that "something" is the branding, bloatware, etc. that we get now.

    If carriers did away with those things, they would probably also want to do away with (or greatly reduce) subsidies. Is that a viable solution? Probably not because - let's be honest - this a far bigger issue to the tech types who hang out here than it is for the vast majority of smartphone users. For most who have learned that I rooted and ROMed my device their first reaction has been, "Wow, I would never even think about doing something like that."

    I would pay more for a non-bloated device with vanilla android that could be easily upgraded, but most of the customer base for smartphones probably wouldn't.
  7. #82  

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    OK for starters- is the IPHONE subsidized? I ask- because it is the #1 SINGLE most successful smartphone model -there's only 1 current sku out there. And theres NO BLOAT. So if Apple- who CLEARLY started with ZERO brand as a smartphone maker can sell 16million handsets in a year without bowing to carrier pressure and STILL sell a $200 phone- so then can everyone else.

    As to the free market comment from earlier- cellphones ARE NOT A FREE MARKET! If I could use ANY phone on ANY carrier and have no contracts- such as driving a car on any road using anyones' gas- THATS free market. Most of us are lucky to have 2 of the 4 major carriers even offer decent service in our area- then our carrier may be lucky to offer 1 to 2 smartphone options that works for our needs. ATT was STUCK With the Captivate, Sprint users NEEDING a keyboard had ONLY the Epic (and EVO in the 1st 30 days was bug ridden!) So this free market in which you speak of is NONEXISTENT in many of our cases.

    We buy a phone that is usually not working 100% as advertised due to bugs or glitches that is not updated within the 30 (or in verizons case 15) day return window) and we have to SETTLE for it. If I returned my Epic after I already had 30 days of 3 constantly rebooting EVOS do I go back to my Pre that was literally broken? My Palm 755 that's collecting dust? I was literally buying a $50blackberry on contract with the full intent of returning it just so my wife had email access for 30days while we waited for the EPIC to launch.

    So when you say we have OPTIONS- and speak with our wallets and not buy Samsung- yet we have no other option on the 1 or 2 carriers in our area that works for us- you CLEARLY are not in the same situation as many others on this board.

    Verizon is the only carrier with multiple top tier droid phones that has decent nationwide service- they also have the slowest 3g in many regions- and the most expensive service plans BY FAR. What sort of message do we give by "speaking with our wallets" supporting the free market if we go to the most expensive carrier with the worst customer loyalty programs simply because they have the best android selection?

    Free market indeed.
    Last edited by brandonc; 01-20-2011 at 11:35 AM.
  8. #83  
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    I would love to be able to buy a phone that was stock android....If I buy it from Verizon then have a Verizon app place in the market place that I can choose to download or not download their bloatware apps. If it is a motorola phone, have motoblur on the SD Card and allow me to choose if I want to use that, stock or something else like ADW EX....Then allow for the OS to be completely controlled by Google.
  9. #84  
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandonc View Post
    OK for starters- is the IPHONE subsidized? I ask- because it is the #1 SINGLE most successful smartphone model -there's only 1 current sku out there. And theres NO BLOAT. So if Apple- who CLEARLY started with ZERO brand as a smartphone maker can sell 16million handsets in a year without bowing to carrier pressure and STILL sell a $200 phone- so then can everyone else.

    As to the free market comment from earlier- cellphones ARE NOT A FREE MARKET! If I could use ANY phone on ANY carrier and have no contracts- such as driving a car on any road using anyones' gas- THATS free market. Most of us are lucky to have 2 of the 4 major carriers even offer decent service in our area- then our carrier may be lucky to offer 1 to 2 smartphone options that works for our needs. ATT was STUCK With the Captivate, Sprint users NEEDING a keyboard had ONLY the Epic (and EVO in the 1st 30 days was bug ridden!) So this free market in which you speak of is NONEXISTENT in many of our cases.

    We buy a phone that is usually not working 100% as advertised due to bugs or glitches that is not updated within the 30 (or in verizons case 15) day return window) and we have to SETTLE for it. If I returned my Epic after I already had 30 days of 3 constantly rebooting EVOS do I go back to my Pre that was literally broken? My Palm 755 that's collecting dust? I was literally buying a $50blackberry on contract with the full intent of returning it just so my wife had email access for 30days while we waited for the EPIC to launch.

    So when you say we have OPTIONS- and speak with our wallets and not buy Samsung- yet we have no other option on the 1 or 2 carriers in our area that works for us- you CLEARLY are not in the same situation as many others on this board.

    Verizon is the only carrier with multiple top tier droid phones that has decent nationwide service- they also have the slowest 3g in many regions- and the most expensive service plans BY FAR. What sort of message do we give by "speaking with our wallets" supporting the free market if we go to the most expensive carrier with the worst customer loyalty programs simply because they have the best android selection?

    Free market indeed.

    I certainly agree from the carrier side that we are pretty locked into one of two camps. There isn't much of a free market there. Maybe that will change in a few years with LTE adoption. Dunno.

    If you were responding to my post, I was referring to the market of cell phone manufacturers. hTC, Moto, Samsung, LG, Sony and more every day. Leave the manufacturer that is giving you fits. For now at least, we have choices when it comes to manufacturers. hTC is looking more and more like the best choice for tinkerers, to me.
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  10. #85  
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    I have a Captivate and I'm fairly frustrated with this issue like everyone else. I got my phone just before Christmas and expected an update by now. I also purchased the samsung car holder which has audio disabled until 2.2 is released.

    There is something here I can't figure out, being in the technology industry myself, it seems to me that Samsung and possibly even AT&T won't be able to recognize a single penny of the revenue they've collected so far on the sales of the phones. The reason being that both companies promised in every peice of literature "Upgradable to 2.2" In accounting law, thats known as a side letter agreement. Legally, when a side letter agreement has been established, the company recieving the revenue, can't post the revenue until the agreement has been satisfied, in this case, until the purchasers who were promised an upgrade, have been provided that upgrade.

    Since Samsung's fiscal year matches the calendar year, it seems to me, Samsung has a whole lot of revenue that they can't claim as profit - and if they did, they've broken some very stringent accounting rules - here in the US anyway. Might be worth looking into.

    edit: Just had a look at Samsung's Q3 earnings statements - appears they have $12.9B in unearned revenue..that could be tied up in the 2.2 debacle. Will be interesting to see their Q4 statment when its released in a few days.
    Last edited by DoctorWu; 01-20-2011 at 01:53 PM. Reason: info from samsungs earnings statement
  11. #86  
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    Its great to see some of the Mobile providers saying something about Froyo. But I think its the 800lb Gorilla of ATT whose going to be the problem. The fact that the others are releasing tomorrow (I hope for them). And ATT arent saying or doing anything I can find. Makes me wonder if they will do anything at all. Are they still the largest carrier anymore and if so what carrier sold the most Galaxy S devices? That recent report which I know you have issues with really makes me wonder about my Captivate or if I should even stay with ATT with there track record. Didnt the head of there mobile division (ATT) get an online award about being the worst android supporter?? Someone sent me something about that but I cant find it now LOL
  12. #87  

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    posted by BSG75: ....I was referring to the market of cell phone manufacturers. hTC, Moto, Samsung, LG, Sony and more every day. Leave the manufacturer that is giving you fits. For now at least, we have choices when it comes to manufacturers.
    Not really accurate-
    Sony is on which carriers?
    HTC has 1 phone on verizon, 1 on Sprint, 2 on Tmobile, 1 on ATT, Moto is Verizon exclusive (decent droid phones) LG only has good phones overseas...

    Where's the top tier CHOICE?

    If ALL handset makers offered each phone on ALL CARRIERS ie: the Galaxy S attempt (which still were still too differentiated- REALLY no camera flash on some models?) THEN we'd have a "Free Market" and more choice.

    But the deck is heavily stacked so that you have extremely limited options- and the one you buy is usually the lesser of 2 evils. After trying a 4.3" screen- the wife and I decided we HAD to have keyboards still- and at the time- EPIC was the ONLY option- looking at the Shift today with it's 3.6" screen- to me too small after having 4.3 and now a 4...that's no option to us either- so I finally caved... bought a PC just to root my phone!
  13. #88  

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    What I see is ATT doesn't want the 2.2 update. The tethering and the data that can be disabled would hurt there business. I am waiting for the Bluetooth voice dialing.
    Last edited by Raiders76; 02-01-2011 at 06:44 PM.
  14. #89  

    Default And the process continues

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that 70-85% of people that want the update to their galaxy s's are techies and put custom roms on their device anywhy. So even though there is the principal that yes samsung said they would release it and so they should... Most people that are going to take advantage of these updates aren't gonna be satisfied, put the custom rom back on and complain that they don't have gingerbread... and so the cycle continues. I personally am from Canada and am running Froyo on my Rogers Captivate and it is better but I am going to root my phone to make it faster just because I can. Besides the 4 hour process just to connect to kies was hell in its self (I still don't no how I did it and I have yet to get it to connect again)... plus I bet 90% of the people reading this could root the captivate a few hundred times at least in 4 hours lol.

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