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  1. #51  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jroc View Post
    I guess I didnt have too many issues with the updates on my Droid X because I immediately used Swype. Loved it on my Droid 1. Thats all I really use. And I dont use streaming apps too much expect for Netflix. Maybe Tune In radio here n there.

    I barely use my camera so camera issues I didnt really see. Guess it depends on how we use our phones.

    With ppl happy with their RAZR's and Maxx's as is...says alot about what Moto has done with Blur on GB. I think Bionic folks are happy as is too.
    Blur has certainly improved over the last few devices. It seems to flow pretty well on the Photon.
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  2. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droid800 View Post
    There is, actually. When I'm not on a mobile device I'll post the relevant section.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    I call shenanigans as well. Its silly to think Big Red, or any company for that matter, would risk losing subscribers by cutting service because you are running version 7.3.5 instead of 7.4.8, even if its in the contract.

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  3. #53  
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    Default Re: Not sure I want ICS

    This is the relevant section:

    Your wireless device must comply with Federal Communications Commission regulations, be certified for use on our network, and be compatible with your Service. Please be aware that we may change your wireless device's software, applications or programming remotely, without notice. This could affect your stored data, or how you've programmed or use your wireless device.
    And the section about them being able to end your service:

    We can, without notice, limit, suspend or end your Service or any agreement with you for any good cause, including, but not limited to: (1) if you: (a) breach this agreement; (b) resell your Service; (c) use your Service for any illegal purpose, including use that violates trade and economic sanctions and prohibitions promulgated by any U.S. governmental agency; (d) install, deploy or use any regeneration equipment or similar mechanism (for example, a repeater) to originate, amplify, enhance, retransmit or regenerate an RF signal without our permission; (e) steal from or lie to us; or, if you're a Postpay customer, (f) do not pay your bill on time; (g) incur charges larger than a required deposit or billing limit, or materially in excess of your monthly access charges (even if we haven't yet billed the charges); (h) provide credit information we can't verify; or (i) are unable to pay us or go bankrupt; or (2) if you, any user of your device or any line of service on your account, or any account manager on your account: (a) threaten, harass, or use vulgar and/or inappropriate language toward our representatives; (b) interfere with our operations; (c) "spam," or engage in other abusive messaging or calling; (d) modify your device from its manufacturer's specifications; or (e) use your Service in a way that negatively affects our network or other customers. We can also temporarily limit your Service for any operational or governmental reason.
    In Verizon's eyes, if you refuse to upgrade your software, you are violating your contract.
  4. #54  

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    Yes, but contracts will always have language like that. Basically, Verizon does have the right to terminate your service in this situation, but will they realistically? Probably only once in a blue moon.
  5. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droid800 View Post
    This is the relevant section:



    And the section about them being able to end your service:



    In Verizon's eyes, if you refuse to upgrade your software, you are violating your contract.
    Uhhh, still not seeing supporting evidence there. Please highlight where it says if you don't upgrade via an OTA they will cancel your service.

    It says they will send the updates to your phone, but nowhere does it say the user is required to install them.

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  6. #56  

    Default Re: Not sure I want ICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Droid800 View Post
    This is the relevant section:



    And the section about them being able to end your service:



    In Verizon's eyes, if you refuse to upgrade your software, you are violating your contract.
    They reserve the right to do this, but I've never once heard of them actually doing it in the case of a software update. It's just a legal way to cover their behind, not a prime directive.
  7. #57  

    Default Re: Not sure I want ICS

    Quote Originally Posted by MA2GA28 View Post
    Uhhh, still not seeing supporting evidence there. Please highlight where it says if you don't upgrade via an OTA they will cancel your service.

    It says they will send the updates to your phone, but nowhere does it say the user is required to install them.

    Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
    Agree no where does it say anything about having to install the updates pushed.
  8. #58  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Premium1 View Post
    Agree no where does it say anything about having to install the updates pushed.
    If you don't accept the update, your device is no longer 'certified' for their network. You don't have a choice. Soon the updates will become mandatory. (as in, unable to be declined)
  9. #59  
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    Default Re: Not sure I want ICS

    I do remember where at some point you had to accept it unless you were rooted with a custom recovery. It would do it automatically. I think the G Nex does it now alot quicker than us with Droid 1's did. Us with a Droid 1 had it so we could permanently decline OTA's with a custom recovery.

    At the same time...there were no sim cards on Verizon back then. I did read where Verizon mentioned sim card software...that I can understand. But OS updates? Even tho they have radio updates...its not the same as sim card software.

    I will sbf or install stock 2.1 or 2.2 on my Droid 1 and see if I get prompted for an OTA. if I still dont...I dont think they meant OS updates. Who knows...Its just when I read that before you posted it...I didnt take it to mean OS updates either.
  10. #60  
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    Default Re: Not sure I want ICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Droid800 View Post
    If you don't accept the update, your device is no longer 'certified' for their network. You don't have a choice. Soon the updates will become mandatory. (as in, unable to be declined)
    That goes for if you root your device too and run outside programs or builds. Is VZW shutting off all rooted phones then?
  11. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MA2GA28 View Post
    That goes for if you root your device too and run outside programs or builds. Is VZW shutting off all rooted phones then?
    I'd love to see them try.

    Also, I highly doubt they'd shut you off for not accepting the update.

    I will get into more of why later. But regarding updates, the language quoted is some of the most poorly drafted language I've ever seen. It's too ambiguous in my professional opinion.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Xparent Cyan Tapatalk
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  12. #62  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MA2GA28 View Post
    That goes for if you root your device too and run outside programs or builds. Is VZW shutting off all rooted phones then?
    I know they were considering it. BMX talked about an internal conversation going on within Verizon about that exact thing.

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  13. #63  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droid800 View Post
    I know they were considering it. BMX talked about an internal conversation going on within Verizon about that exact thing.
    I find it hard to believe they'd do it. The outrage would be amazing. That said, I believe there is a specific time dependent clause of the law about to expire concerning the legality of rooting and jailbreaking. Need to look into that a bit more.
  14. #64  
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    Ok......if Verizon was going to do this, then why are there so many people that are rooted and ROMed and they are not having their service cut off???????? They are not even running VWs software.......don't you think they would see that also.....
  15. #65  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averix View Post
    I find it hard to believe they'd do it. The outrage would be amazing. That said, I believe there is a specific time dependent clause of the law about to expire concerning the legality of rooting and jailbreaking. Need to look into that a bit more.
    That wouldn't apply. All that says is that you're legally able to do it. It says nothing about requiring Verizon to allow your phone on the network.

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  16. Thread Author  Thread Author    #66  

    Default Re: Not sure I want ICS

    WOW...I started a thread that has 4,681 hits and 64 posts!
    Although my thread was totally hijacked and most of the replies are completely unrelated to my op, hahahah...it's still impressive numbers!!

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  17. #67  

    Default Re: Not sure I want ICS

    Quote Originally Posted by droidntn View Post
    WOW...I started a thread that has 4,681 hits and 64 posts!
    Although my thread was totally hijacked and most of the replies are completely unrelated to my op, hahahah...it's still impressive numbers!!

    Take this thread to Cuba!
  18. #68  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droid800 View Post
    That wouldn't apply. All that says is that you're legally able to do it. It says nothing about requiring Verizon to allow your phone on the network.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    The administrative cost of identifying and booting flashers would be more than Verizon could handle, particularly if the flashers are all on the same version of Android.

    Further, they would have to figure out a way to separate number and sim identification from device, or at least attempt a way to get to the latter without fundamentally changing the material terms of the contract.

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  19. #69  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmmarck View Post
    The administrative cost of identifying and booting flashers would be more than Verizon could handle, particularly if the flashers are all on the same version of Android.

    Further, they would have to figure out a way to separate number and sim identification from device, or at least attempt a way to get to the latter without fundamentally changing the material terms of the contract.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Xparent Cyan Tapatalk
    Erm. They already have the means and they can already tell which users are running different software than what they approved. Its not as difficult as you make it out to be. They could do it any time they wanted, but they haven't pulled the trigger yet for obvious reasons.

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  20. #70  

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    Why u not sure about ics ?
  21. Thread Author  Thread Author    #71  

    Default Re: Not sure I want ICS

    Quote Originally Posted by rob25 View Post
    Why u not sure about ics ?
    Because Maxx works perfectly now! My Droid X worked perfectly until they upgraded it.
    The risk doesn't out weigh the benefits.
    And, what brought about the hijack in the first place was my saying I wished we could have an option to opt-out of the upgrade.
    Thanks for asking.
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  22. #72  
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    Default Re: Not sure I want ICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Droid800 View Post
    Erm. They already have the means and they can already tell which users are running different software than what they approved. Its not as difficult as you make it out to be. They could do it any time they wanted, but they haven't pulled the trigger yet for obvious reasons.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    How? Without it being obvious--like a different version of Android--tracking and being able to categorically say that the software is not approved (as a basis of claiming breach of contract) would be a nightmare. Further, if you're a user that flashes daily/several times a week, tracking would be an absolute drain on all resources, much more than I think Big Red would want to expend just to boot one or three people.

    In fact, having had to return these things 3 times now, not even their store clerk/service rep had any idea I was on different software, and when asking about signal issues, none of that information came to light--even as I discussed the "upcoming update" and what a "baseband" was. I have a feeling that if they had a legitimate means to track you--without having to manually press a button to "fish" the info--that they'd come down a lot more frequently than they have (which is really never, unless you know of people getting caught?).

    But having this experience, and looking at the general nature of it, I don't know--i'm just not convinced that they can tell with complete certainty. Maybe when the OTA comes out and half the people reject it...lol. Hell, I'd further argue that if they had this information, and actually cared about what they perceive their contract rights to be, you'd see maybe 1/4 of the returns b/c they'd look you up, see you on a different rom with different apps, and say have fun with the $650 fee. In fact, now that I think about it, that's where you'd see this really be exercised (warranty claims), and so far that process has gone without a hitch.

    The problem that I see from a legal perspective is that your phone is really incidental to the service contract, and when the rights start to overlap with very broad and unclear language an issue develops. For example--that piece you quoted. If you read that broadly (which is really the only way to do it), then pretty much anything would cause that term to be violated--including, what appears, to be the adding/deletion of apps. Heck, disabling or uninstalling Google Maps--a pre-approved, core app--would also do it.

    But alas, it's too early and I'll visit in here later. Interesting discussion though.
  23. #73  
  24. #74  

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    I never had a bad experience
  25. #75  

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    I always loved my 3g but when I got LTE I was completely blown away
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