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  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  
    Kevin O'Quinn's Avatar
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    Default Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Samsung has recently released the details of its upcoming Exynos 5 Dual SoC, and it's impressive to say the least. But first this:

    [NOTE]It's stated multiple times that this is intended for tablets, with specific features pointing toward Windows 8 tablets.[/NOTE]

    I wouldn't expect this to show up in Android phones first, but eventually we'll see it powering Android phones and tablets.

    This is a fully realized Cortex A15 design, which brings with it all of the improvements that ARM has made to its architecture. We've seen the difference this can make with the Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 (Krait) architecture, but this is more along the lines of the reference ARM design, without any of the tweaks and changes that Qualcomm did.

    It's built on the existing 32nm HKMG (for more information on what that does see THIS POST) process that the current Exynos 4 Dual/Quad is, so the power savings from that process will carry over to this SoC as well.

    Another dramatic improvement is RAM, more specifically, Samsung moved to a dual socket 800mhz LPDDR3 interface. This is significant, because as Samsung points out when during serious multi-tasking (streaming 1080p while taking pictures, videos, etc) definitely taxes the memory subsystem, and the increased bandwidth available should help with that. Also, the ability of this SoC to drive WQXGA (2560x1600) resolution displays will require this much bandwidth.

    WQXGA is a pretty high-resolution, so what else is needed to drive that? A beefy GPU. Samsung has paired the Exynos 5 Dual with the newly announced Mali-T604 quad-core GPU. Currently the most powerful GPU Mali offers, this thing is a beast. Pure computational computing power is matched only by the highest end PowerVR GPU's (think what's inside the new iPad). If real world performance matches what the manufacturer states, then this should be far more capable than what nVidia, TI, or Qualcomm have coming (more on this later).

    Other things that matter (but no so much to Android) is USB 3.0 support as well as DirectX 11 support. Like I said, this is intended first and foremost as a Windows 8 tablet SoC IMO.

    So, this has the horsepower and capability to do pretty much anything you would ever want it to do. But will it? Well, that all depends. You can have all the hardware in the world, but at the end of the day you need the software to take advantage of it. If anything, this is where things will kinda sorta fall apart. Samsung can make great hardware, but they don't seem to take full advantage of it through software. This is where another manufacturer like nVidia has an advantage. They know all about hardware/software optimization, and take full advantage of it. There's a reason everybody wants Tegra 3 in a tablet, and the games is why. If Samsung can learn this they will be a force to be reckoned with. They have always had one of the best (if not the best) SoC's available, but performance has always been hindered by software.


    Performance-wise I expect this to be at the top of the heap as far as raw numbers go. The benchmarks will say it's the fastest. But benchmarks only tell part of the story. Those represent raw horsepower, which is fine, but it isn't necessarily representative of what you'll experience in the real world. Without the software optimization to take full advantage of the hardware I wouldn't expect to be blown away by a device running this hardware. I wouldn't expect it to be night and day. In other words, I wouldn't wait to purchase a device just because you want this specific SoC running it. All the awesome features that it has built-in probably won't be utilized by whatever software it's running.
    Last edited by Kevin O'Quinn; 08-10-2012 at 11:21 AM.
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
  2. #2  

    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Battery life?
  3. Thread Author  Thread Author    #3  
    Kevin O'Quinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchris View Post
    Battery life?
    Lots of factors, and this is purely a guess, but it's power draw will probably be about the same as the snapdragon s4.

    But this has no baseband. So no cellular radio to suck the juice.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
  4. #4  

    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Would like to see built in lte controller, ala s4.
  5. #5  

    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    I don't understand this software argument. The SGS2's Exynos was on paper a good but not mind-blowing SoC of its generation. Despite this, it was easily the best performing SoC of its generation and the SGS2 was the fastest phone of its generation. What exactly is lacking about their software? Just the fact that they don't pair with game developers to have games optimized for their platforms like nVidia? nVidia is described as having a software advantage, but the only thing that is actually listed as an advantage is Tegra Zone games? The term "software advantage" is used as if there are other things nVidia does better with software, but what are those things?

    nVidia can keep its select group of games that look marginally better on their systems. Even if the SGS2 didn't have that, it was overall the fastest phone of its generation, and considering its SoC wasn't specs-wise mind-blowing, Samsung got something in the software right.

    In any case, it's nice to know that we will soon see the first SoCs that are truly a generation past 2011 SoCs. I kinda feel bad for everyone who rushed to get a One X or SGS3, considering they have last-gen SoCs since they have 2011-grade GPUs. It's all about this A15 Exynos + Mali T-604 and S4 Pro + Adreno 320. Adreno 320 has already been demonstrated as the new top of the GPU heap (for Android):
    AnandTech - Qualcomm's Quad-Core Snapdragon S4 (APQ8064/Adreno 320) Performance Preview
    Most estimates peg Mali-T604 as above even Adreno 320, and perhaps an Android GPU will finally be able to compete with the new iPad's GPU. Both GPUs will finally be on a level beyond what we saw in 2011, and who knows what will win: faster per-core dual core A15 with a moderately better GPU, or a quad core that's only mildly slower per-core and has a moderately worse GPU? Many will be tempted to say that the comparison will be like Tegra 3 vs. S4 dual core, but it really won't since we're no longer talking about SoCs that are just pretend next-gen.

    Lastly, it seems like this new Exynos and S4 quad core are both going to be for tablets first, which means we might not see phones with them until winter or even early next year. But seriously, do your best to avoid the flood of S4 dual-core fake next-gen SoCs with Adreno 225 until that time.
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  6. #6  

    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Quote Originally Posted by UCLA 15 View Post
    I don't understand this software argument. The SGS2's Exynos was on paper a good but not mind-blowing SoC of its generation. Despite this, it was easily the best performing SoC of its generation and the SGS2 was the fastest phone of its generation. What exactly is lacking about their software? Just the fact that they don't pair with game developers to have games optimized for their platforms like nVidia? nVidia is described as having a software advantage, but the only thing that is actually listed as an advantage is Tegra Zone games? The term "software advantage" is used as if there are other things nVidia does better with software, but what are those things?

    nVidia can keep its select group of games that look marginally better on their systems. Even if the SGS2 didn't have that, it was overall the fastest phone of its generation, and considering its SoC wasn't specs-wise mind-blowing, Samsung got something in the software right.

    In any case, it's nice to know that we will soon see the first SoCs that are truly a generation past 2011 SoCs. I kinda feel bad for everyone who rushed to get a One X or SGS3, considering they have last-gen SoCs since they have 2011-grade GPUs. It's all about this A15 Exynos + Mali T-604 and S4 Pro + Adreno 320. Adreno 320 has already been demonstrated as the new top of the GPU heap (for Android):
    AnandTech - Qualcomm's Quad-Core Snapdragon S4 (APQ8064/Adreno 320) Performance Preview
    Most estimates peg Mali-T604 as above even Adreno 320, and perhaps an Android GPU will finally be able to compete with the new iPad's GPU. Both GPUs will finally be on a level beyond what we saw in 2011, and who knows what will win: faster per-core dual core A15 with a moderately better GPU, or a quad core that's only mildly slower per-core and has a moderately worse GPU? Many will be tempted to say that the comparison will be like Tegra 3 vs. S4 dual core, but it really won't since we're no longer talking about SoCs that are just pretend next-gen.

    Lastly, it seems like this new Exynos and S4 quad core are both going to be for tablets first, which means we might not see phones with them until winter or even early next year. But seriously, do your best to avoid the flood of S4 dual-core fake next-gen SoCs with Adreno 225 until that time.
    I think you missed the whole point of Kevin's post. Yes, you're right about the A15 wave having a step-up in processing power. That's great, and I'm for that, but specs really only tell part of the story. The One X and S3 are truly steps-up from last years' best. Thinner form factors, greater processing power, better screens and excellent battery life. The S4 is a great chip. What will the additional performance of an Exynos 5250 really provide? Neither of the above phones lag, and both will handle anything you can possibly throw at them.

    At this point, software is everything. It's your experience with the phone. It's how you use it and what it can do for you. The silicon inside does nothing for you besides help the software run as it was intended. Without good software, the hardware is nothing. Sammy needs to ditch the stale, gimmick-infused Gingerbread-looking Touchwiz, or seriously improve it. Sense 4 is nice and slick but could use some tweaks. Why do you think there's no hype for the upcoming spec monster LG Eclipse? Hint: It has everything to do with LG's software. In a world of ever-improving specifications, we should not forget the reason we made these SoCs in the first place.
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  7. #7  

    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    i agree with ucla15 its time for some new architecture soc and gpu... tired of the rehash. I wanna see android specific gpu kick apples gpu down a peg for a change!
  8. Thread Author  Thread Author    #8  
    Kevin O'Quinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Apple's performance is because of one thing, mainly, and that's how optimized the software is for the hardware. That's why an iPhone 3GS is just as smooth as any Android phone in existence. It's optimized to run extremely well on the hardware.

    We don't need more cores, ghz, or beastly GPUs. The Galaxy Nexus running Jelly Bean should prove that. We need more software optimization.

    UCLA 15 - The Exynos in the SGSII was far and away the best SoC of any phone in it's generation. It had the fastest GPU, was power efficient, and the CPU side was extremely powerful. It was a winner. It was the benchmark for all other Android phones. The browser was optimized for it, but the rest really wasn't. The Exynos was just fast enough to make up for it. Which is where we're at now. The Snapdragon S4, the current quad-cores, and this new Exynos are just that damn good that they make up for the lack of software optimization.

    The Snapdragon S4 is a next-gen SoC, as well as the Exynos 5. Without taking advantage of the specific architecture, the difference between the Adreno 225 and Adreno 320 in real-world use probably won't be noticeable. Sure, you'll here "ZOMG look at my quadrant score!!" but that won't necessarily translate into a noticeably faster UI. Jelly Bean on the Galaxy Nexus is enough to prove that we need better software. Any hiccups in UI at this point isn't due to the SoC, it's due to the software.
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
  9. #9  

    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Software needs to be improved, of course. Android itself has always been the thing most holding Android phones back in terms of UI smoothness.

    S4 is very advanced. I hesitate in calling it truly next gen when Adreno 225 is nothing more than a mildly tweaked Adreno 220. S4 Pro + Adreno 320 will be fully next-gen to me because it will finally have a significantly improved GPU to go along with the advanced CPU, but maybe that's just how I define next gen.

    The software definitely is what most needs to be improved the most. But considering 5" 1080p displays are on the horizon, I think next gen GPUs are definitely welcome. Apple uses way more powerful GPUs than Androids even though it's probably overkill since their software is so much more optimized. So I don't see how it would be overkill for Android to step up the GPUs considering the software is still a problem and displays are getting very large and high res.
  10. Thread Author  Thread Author    #10  
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    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Quote Originally Posted by UCLA 15 View Post
    Software needs to be improved, of course. Android itself has always been the thing most holding Android phones back in terms of UI smoothness.

    S4 is very advanced. I hesitate in calling it truly next gen when Adreno 225 is nothing more than a mildly tweaked Adreno 220. S4 Pro + Adreno 320 will be fully next-gen to me because it will finally have a significantly improved GPU to go along with the advanced CPU, but maybe that's just how I define next gen.

    The software definitely is what most needs to be improved the most. But considering 5" 1080p displays are on the horizon, I think next gen GPUs are definitely welcome. Apple uses way more powerful GPUs than Androids even though it's probably overkill since their software is so much more optimized. So I don't see how it would be overkill for Android to step up the GPUs considering the software is still a problem and displays are getting very large and high res.
    Let me preface this by saying that I'm not a software expert.

    I get what you're saying, but I don't fully agree. S4 is definitely next-gen. I have an AT&T One X. I use System Monitor to keep tabs on what's going on (sometimes, not all the time). I can say with some certainty that it's infinitely more potent than it needs to be to run a UI perfectly smooth. Start multi-tasking a bit and you see CPU use go up. But it really kicks in when you play a game. It can go full bore for short periods of time. This is the only time the GPU really makes a huge difference.

    That's where Apple has the advantage. It's not that the GPU is more powerful (although it is), it's that Apple has coded things in such a way to take full advantage of it when it's needed. That's why gaming on iOS has always been so good. That's why gaming on nVidia is so good (when you're running a Tegrazone game).


    On a per-core basis, I would expect the Exynos 5 and S4 to trade blows. They both blow away anything Cortex-A9 based per-core (which is why some companies made the move to quad-core). The Exynos has the advantage in the GPU department, only being matched by Apple in the mobile space, but I bet it doesn't really perform any better than anything else because nobody will take advantage of it. It really makes me sad. Samsung puts such awesome hardware inside of its phones, but then does nothing special with it.
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
  11. #11  

    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    I fully agree that S4 is next-gen, aside from the GPU. I will never agree that Adreno 225 is next gen when it is a very mildly improved Adreno 220, and as an Adreno 220 owner I can tell you how pathetic it is (and, well, how pathetic the S3 SoC is in general; stuns me to think that the advanced S4 comes from the same company).

    I still just don't get your hazy comments about Samsung's software. I just don't get what it is that you want Samsung to do with its software that it isn't doing. You want them to have software as optimized as Apple's? You want them to create their own Tegrazone-type thing? Is it Touchwiz you want them to do something about (I hate TW, but I don't think that it's somehow holding Samsung phones back from their hardware potential)?
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    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Quote Originally Posted by UCLA 15 View Post
    I fully agree that S4 is next-gen, aside from the GPU. I will never agree that Adreno 225 is next gen when it is a very mildly improved Adreno 220, and as an Adreno 220 owner I can tell you how pathetic it is (and, well, how pathetic the S3 SoC is in general; stuns me to think that the advanced S4 comes from the same company).

    I still just don't get your hazy comments about Samsung's software. I just don't get what it is that you want Samsung to do with its software that it isn't doing. You want them to have software as optimized as Apple's? You want them to create their own Tegrazone-type thing? Is it Touchwiz you want them to do something about (I hate TW, but I don't think that it's somehow holding Samsung phones back from their hardware potential)?
    Any of those options would be fine with me.

    Yes, the S3 wasn't that great of a chip. It was a stopgap solution until the S4 came out, and remember that it was based on ~3 year old technology (Scorpion core dates by rather far).
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
  13. #13  

    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    When can we expect to see the Exynos 5 start appearing in devices? Q1-Q2 2013?
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    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Android devices or devices in general? I bet we see this in Win8 tablets before anything else. Win8 is launching sometime in October right? I bet Samsung will at least show something, if not have it ready for launch.
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  15. #15  

    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Galaxy S IV is rumored to use Exynos 5, two Cortex-A15 cores at 1.7GHz and Mali-604 GPU, I found it here Galaxy S IV is rumored to use Exynos 5450 chipset - Phones Review News
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    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Quote Originally Posted by adrenouser View Post
    Galaxy S IV is rumored to use Exynos 5, two Cortex-A15 cores at 1.7GHz and Mali-604 GPU, I found it here Galaxy S IV is rumored to use Exynos 5450 chipset - Phones Review News
    Doesn't surprise me at all.
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    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    my only complain about the exynos is the lack of driver. i mean my s2 could be running super smooth with my aokp rom, if samsung decided to open their driver
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    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Quote Originally Posted by rksst228 View Post
    my only complain about the exynos is the lack of driver. i mean my s2 could be running super smooth with my aokp rom, if samsung decided to open their driver
    Agreed. Many people don't realize that Samsung isn't quite as modder friendly and they make themselves out to be. Everybody wants to see AOSP ROMs on Samsung chips, but the only way to properly do that right now is on the Nexus 10. I'm hoping that the Exynos being in a Nexus helps change their stance on that, but I'm not holding my breath at all, since the only thing that has to be released is software source.
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  19. #19  

    Default Re: Samsung Exynos 5 details released

    Quote Originally Posted by moonsle View Post
    Would like to see built in lte controller, ala s4
    In the Korean version of the Galaxy S4 ( Model SHV-300S), it has an Exynos 5 Octa CPU clocked at 1.8ghz, with LTE Support.

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