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    Default Apple A7 chip is from Samsung



    I find it interesting that the latest greatest processor in Apple's Iphone 5S is actually gotten from Samsung, their arch rival. Given all of the bad blood from these companies, does this surprise you that they are working together?
    The article also notes that the camera sensor is a Sony unit.
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  2. #2  
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    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Apple has used Samsung for a lot components that are used in their flagship devices for a long time. They're trying to remove their dependence competitors. That will take a while to be completely independent or switch to other manufactures.

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    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Doesn't surprise me one bit. Money is money, and Samsung, just like Apple is out to make it. Samsung is able to ramp up in the time and produce quality in the volumes Apple needs. I view their sibling smartphone rivalry almost as healthy competition among brothers of a different mother.
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  4. #4  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Stuff like that probably happens more than you'd think. I used to work for a company that made enterprise level servers and IBM (one of our biggest competitors) made our custom processors and ASIC's for us.
  5. #5  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Yes it should be well known by now, I find it funny that Apple gets these components from Samsung then sends them lawsuits back.
  6. #6  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanMXA View Post


    I find it interesting that the latest greatest processor in Apple's Iphone 5S is actually gotten from Samsung, their arch rival. Given all of the bad blood from these companies, does this surprise you that they are working together?
    The article also notes that the camera sensor is a Sony unit.
    Samsung only builds it. Apple designs it. Besides, totally different part of Samsung.

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  7. #7  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanMXA View Post


    I find it interesting that the latest greatest processor in Apple's Iphone 5S is actually gotten from Samsung, their arch rival. Given all of the bad blood from these companies, does this surprise you that they are working together?
    The article also notes that the camera sensor is a Sony unit.
    Samsung builds to order specifications, Apple designed the thing, including 32bit down-step integration to make sure older apps aren't obsolete. But primarily it was implemented this early to take advantage of ARMv8 - which is the main reason the iPhone 5S is so damn quick. 64bit also insures that the Touch ID can distinguish virtually infinite possibilities in sub second time-frame. I believe, without 64bit architecture the fingerprint sensor would not be as accurate as it is out of the gate and end up working like the smart stay, or facial recognition - which works sometimes.

    But to answer your concern: Samsung is like the plumber when Apple provided the designs and building the entire house, it has a competent manufacturing plant (Apple does not). Samsung may be able to design and build a house, but was only hired to build the plumbing as specified/designed by Apple.

    I'm pretty sure, Samsung NOW has the know-how, and will be able to build 64bit processors for their phones, without R&D costs and risks involved, thus putting out their versions cheaper...

    Hope that clarifies why even though the chip was build by Samsung, but was not and will not be included in their phones until they design their own.
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  8. #8  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Malix View Post
    Samsung builds to order specifications, Apple designed the thing, including 32bit down-step integration to make sure older apps aren't obsolete. But primarily it was implemented this early to take advantage of ARMv8 - which is the main reason the iPhone 5S is so damn quick. 64bit also insures that the Touch ID can distinguish virtually infinite possibilities in sub second time-frame. I believe, without 64bit architecture the fingerprint sensor would not be as accurate as it is out of the gate and end up working like the smart stay, or facial recognition - which works sometimes.

    But to answer your concern: Samsung is like the plumber when Apple provided the designs and building the entire house, it has a competent manufacturing plant (Apple does not). Samsung may be able to design and build a house, but was only hired to build the plumbing as specified/designed by Apple.

    I'm pretty sure, Samsung NOW has the know-how, and will be able to build 64bit processors for their phones, without R&D costs and risks involved, thus putting out their versions cheaper...

    Hope that clarifies why even though the chip was build by Samsung, but was not and will not be included in their phones until they design their own.
    You don't think Apple patents their SoC designs? Why do you think Samsung has never been able to put Apples SoC design into any of their devices? That's can't because they are bound by nondisclosure and noncompetitive contracts which states Samsung is not to ever use Apples designs. In addition, Apple SoC designs are optimized to only run on Apple hardware/software and not anything else. I'd like to see Samsung attempt to utilize a dualcore CPU clocked at 1.3GHz and have the device running smooth. Why do you think they don't even use their own chip designs (Exynos) in their flagship phones? Because they suck and had to use a 3rd party chip (Qualcomm) which they know is better than their own design. That's the advantage of keeping everything in house unlike Samsung where the OS is from Google and SoC design are from 3rd party as well. It's very hard to optimize a device when it's a mish mash of designs from 3rd parties. Of course, Samsung has to compensate by using brute force using quadcore and octocore CPU's to achieve smooth operation in their devices. Motorola has realized Apples technique and implemented this philosophy in the Moto X. You don't need quadcores to have a smooth running mobile device.
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  9. #9  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    No it doesnt because who makes better chips?
  10. #10  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Quote Originally Posted by Fr0gburp3r View Post
    You don't need quadcores to have a smooth running mobile device.
    But you do need 64-bit?
  11. #11  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Quote Originally Posted by garublador View Post
    But you do need 64-bit?
    Not at all. But the iPhone has been running smooth since the 1st gen. Apple couldn't have implemented the fingerprint scanner to work as well and quickly as it is without using a 64-bit architecture.
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  12. #12  
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    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    There's not a single smartphone out there on the market that doesn't have a Samsung component so ya....

    But they are trying to move their direction and reliance on Samsung somewhere else.
  13. #13  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Quote Originally Posted by Fr0gburp3r View Post
    Not at all. But the iPhone has been running smooth since the 1st gen. Apple couldn't have implemented the fingerprint scanner to work as well and quickly as it is without using a 64-bit architecture.
    I'm just pointing out the double standard that when Apple makes a faster processor it's because it's better, but if Samsung does it it's because they have to to make their phone work.

    I consider both quad core and 64-bit architectures in current phones to be marketing points rather than useful features.
  14. #14  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    The Note 3 and future Notes could use the 64bit processor with its larger memory, but stuffing a 64bit processor with just 1GB of ram doesn't make a lot of sense.
  15. #15  
    Ry
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    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    This should not surprise you.
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  16. #16  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Quote Originally Posted by TeknoBug View Post
    The Note 3 and future Notes could use the 64bit processor with its larger memory, but stuffing a 64bit processor with just 1GB of ram doesn't make a lot of sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by garublador View Post
    I'm just pointing out the double standard that when Apple makes a faster processor it's because it's better, but if Samsung does it it's because they have to to make their phone work.

    I consider both quad core and 64-bit architectures in current phones to be marketing points rather than useful features.
    Yeh, just a marketing point (sarcasm):

    iPhone's do not need faster processor, my BMW does not need faster engine, both products are properly optimized, But some cars, are heavy and underpowered, thus they NEED a faster engine. MotoX proves that what makes iPhones so smooth isn't specs, Specs, SPECS (like a V8 in a 1950's car, good enough, but inefficient), it's proper optimization of hardware, imagine running iOS with Samsung S4 specs, that would blow everything out. Ofcourse that's why Apple makes the big bucks, and has the ability to influence the world: That's why we see 64bit on mobile today and not in 2015, and it works flawlessly with old 32bit designed software.

    It takes money to be influential, not the ability to copy as fast or as well as Samsung does (gold S4). So I'm sure Samsung and the rest of the mobile world will reverse engineer apple's 64bit hardware/software and we'll see 64bit standard hit early. And as much as anyone bashes the new features in iPhone 5s - it all complements each other: Apple would not deliver a gimmick that the Touch ID would have become unless they knew it worked flawlessly, which is why it required 64bit architecture to calculate infinite variables in sub-second time, only then they introduce Touch ID to masses. And why not take advantage of the ARMv8 while you have it - boom fast, sharp camera, console type gaming, etc.

    The world has been fed that innovation now is specs, specs and specs - bigger screens, and octa-processors, but if you research benchmarks (got a link for you above), it's all moot - if you cannot build a proper OS for your own hardware.

    Take it for what it's worth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fr0gburp3r View Post
    You don't think Apple patents their SoC designs? Why do you think Samsung has never been able to put Apples SoC design into any of their devices? That's can't because they are bound by nondisclosure and noncompetitive contracts which states Samsung is not to ever use Apples designs. In addition, Apple SoC designs are optimized to only run on Apple hardware/software and not anything else. I'd like to see Samsung attempt to utilize a dualcore CPU clocked at 1.3GHz and have the device running smooth. Why do you think they don't even use their own chip designs (Exynos) in their flagship phones? Because they suck and had to use a 3rd party chip (Qualcomm) which they know is better than their own design. That's the advantage of keeping everything in house unlike Samsung where the OS is from Google and SoC design are from 3rd party as well. It's very hard to optimize a device when it's a mish mash of designs from 3rd parties. Of course, Samsung has to compensate by using brute force using quadcore and octocore CPU's to achieve smooth operation in their devices. Motorola has realized Apples technique and implemented this philosophy in the Moto X. You don't need quadcores to have a smooth running mobile device.

    I completely Agree!!!
  17. #17  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Apple has used Samsung chips for a while lol
  18. #18  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Malix View Post
    Yeh, just a marketing point (sarcasm):
    But how much faster is it than an A7 chip using a 32-bit architecture? Conveniently we have no way of knowing. My guess is that the performance would be pretty similar except for a few specific cases and those cases would be things that most of us don't use our phones for very often. It's the same thing with quad-core processors in phones. We generally don't do things that require four cores on our phones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Malix View Post
    iPhone's do not need faster processor, my BMW does not need faster engine, both products are properly optimized, But some cars, are heavy and underpowered, thus they NEED a faster engine. MotoX proves that what makes iPhones so smooth isn't specs, Specs, SPECS (like a V8 in a 1950's car, good enough, but inefficient), it's proper optimization of hardware, imagine running iOS with Samsung S4 specs, that would blow everything out.
    I'm not exactly sure what sort of argument you're making there. Both Apple and Samsung use specifications in their marketing. It's not super surprising that the 5S is faster than an S4, it's newer. iPhones generally perform very well compared to other phones that are out at the time. They have to put the money into making them that way so they can justify selling them for full price for a whole year. That doesn't mean that you aren't applying a double standard where if Apple makes a phone faster it's because they're good but if Samsung does it it's because they're bad. Apple spends more on R&D for their one phone and Samsung spreads it out over several phones.

    Apple has done very well most of the time by following their, "limited hardware options" method of design. Other companies, including Microsoft, Google and Samsung, have opted to use a more open approach and give customers much more choice and a better price. Personally, I'll take the extra choices and more functionality at a lower price over Apple's "optimization," but there isn't really a way to say which is objectively better.
  19. #19  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Quote Originally Posted by garublador View Post
    But how much faster is it than an A7 chip using a 32-bit architecture? Conveniently we have no way of knowing. My guess is that the performance would be pretty similar except for a few specific cases and those cases would be things that most of us don't use our phones for very often. It's the same thing with quad-core processors in phones. We generally don't do things that require four cores on our phones.

    I'm not exactly sure what sort of argument you're making there. Both Apple and Samsung use specifications in their marketing. It's not super surprising that the 5S is faster than an S4, it's newer. iPhones generally perform very well compared to other phones that are out at the time. They have to put the money into making them that way so they can justify selling them for full price for a whole year. That doesn't mean that you aren't applying a double standard where if Apple makes a phone faster it's because they're good but if Samsung does it it's because they're bad. Apple spends more on R&D for their one phone and Samsung spreads it out over several phones.

    Apple has done very well most of the time by following their, "limited hardware options" method of design. Other companies, including Microsoft, Google and Samsung, have opted to use a more open approach and give customers much more choice and a better price. Personally, I'll take the extra choices and more functionality at a lower price over Apple's "optimization," but there isn't really a way to say which is objectively better.
    I appreciate your reply... I dont have the iPhone 5S yet, life/work is keeping me away from going to get one right now, maybe in couple of days. So my input so far is Tech Reviewers, and Real experiences posted on forums. So the benchmark tests may be showing what the new iPhone is capable of, but I understand not everything is going to take advantage right out day one. But I do make a long term investment with my $200, to prove it - I'm currently using iPhone 3GS as the only and primary phone for business and common tasks, (iPad 3 for entertainment and games). I had many opportunities years ago to upgrade to current phones, but did not need to as my phone never slowed down, always got current updates, and with battery life I think I got lucky. So this next purchase will need to be future proof - THAT'S where iPhone shines for me!!!

    Now speaking of real experiences, my wife has iPhone 5 and in comparison, the iPhone 5S that I had the opportunity to play with, dealt with similar tasks must faster, you notice from app launches, unlock speeds (not to mention Touch ID), editing software, to restarts, transitions, scrolling and management of battery is absolutely astounding. That being said, my wife's iPhone 5 is already consistently smooth and pleasurable to use compared to both Samsung S4's that I compared it to (one was literally brand new). So YES, the same RAM, same clock speed, but as a 64bit architecture does handle 32bit faster with improved experience. I will throw a friendly gesture to my Android friends - the MotoX is really up to par with iPhone 5S - I find that impressive given that it gets bashed for having sub-spec sheet compared to most top end Androids. The only lacking was the camera, and that was recently improved, too.

    Regarding cost. The phones that are top end are all $200 for me (living in the US) - so iPhone 5S is no-brainer when it comes to pricing. But even in full prices I dont understand how you see comparable phones that these phones are cheaper then iPhones. If you're going by spec sheet comparing to iPhone's you're comparing low budget Android phones, but we both know they dont live up to the iPhone even if they have the same specs. <--- is that what you're talking by saying phones are cheaper? because those phones wont work for me...
  20. #20  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Touchwiz is a resource hog, I remember Motoblur was as well, omg I hated it on my old Motorola devices and I'm glad Motorola ditched it, there really shouldn't be another layer on top of the Android OS, that's one of Samsung's problem. At least HTC has gotten Sense right, it hardly eats into the resources, the old Sense with Eclair/Froyo (HTC Desire) was annoying.
  21. #21  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Quote Originally Posted by TeknoBug View Post
    Touchwiz is a resource hog, I remember Motoblur was as well, omg I hated it on my old Motorola devices and I'm glad Motorola ditched it, there really shouldn't be another layer on top of the Android OS, that's one of Samsung's problem. At least HTC has gotten Sense right, it hardly eats into the resources, the old Sense with Eclair/Froyo (HTC Desire) was annoying.
    And that's just an inherent issue you will have when your software is open source. Yes, it allows many more users to have your OS in their hands around the world because any "homegrown" or top-tier OEM can pick it up, add whatever they want to it and the sell the devices for next to nothing.

    Apple obviously keeps tight reigns on iOS, therefore allowing them to optimize it and push it out how they want and only when they're happy with it.

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  22. #22  
    Ry
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    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    There "shouldn't" be, but that's the beauty of Android. Options.

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  23. #23  

    Default Re: Apple A7 chip is from Samsung

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Malix View Post
    I appreciate your reply... I dont have the iPhone 5S yet, life/work is keeping me away from going to get one right now, maybe in couple of days. So my input so far is Tech Reviewers, and Real experiences posted on forums. So the benchmark tests may be showing what the new iPhone is capable of, but I understand not everything is going to take advantage right out day one. But I do make a long term investment with my $200, to prove it - I'm currently using iPhone 3GS as the only and primary phone for business and common tasks, (iPad 3 for entertainment and games). I had many opportunities years ago to upgrade to current phones, but did not need to as my phone never slowed down, always got current updates, and with battery life I think I got lucky. So this next purchase will need to be future proof - THAT'S where iPhone shines for me!!!
    I agree that's been a huge advantage in the past. I obviously don't know this for certain, but the most recent versions of Android seem to be good enough to allow Android phones to have longer lives. Apple has always been good at allowing older devices to last a lot longer without slowing down to a crawl. I also appreciate people not taking advantage of their subsidies as soon as possible. It helps pay for my new phone every two years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Malix View Post
    Now speaking of real experiences, my wife has iPhone 5 and in comparison, the iPhone 5S that I had the opportunity to play with, dealt with similar tasks must faster, you notice from app launches, unlock speeds (not to mention Touch ID), editing software, to restarts, transitions, scrolling and management of battery is absolutely astounding.
    Again, the question isn't whether or not the 5S is faster, it's how much the 64-bit architecture really contributes to that. Since we're allowing anecdotal evidence, I have a friend who's a big Apple fan. When you go to their house there are three Mac laptops sitting on the coffee table, Apple TV on the television and he bought the iPhone 5 outright last year and then woke up at 2am to order the 5S. His impression of the 5S is that, "I guess it's faster, but it's really hard to tell when you're just browsing Facebook and the web. I'm using my old iPhone 5 case with it and I'm considering buying a new case just to make it seem different from my old phone."

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Malix View Post
    That being said, my wife's iPhone 5 is already consistently smooth and pleasurable to use compared to both Samsung S4's that I compared it to (one was literally brand new). So YES, the same RAM, same clock speed, but as a 64bit architecture does handle 32bit faster with improved experience.
    I like this anecdotal evidence precedent. My wife has an iPhone 5 and I have a S4. Having used both phones quite a bit since we got them in May I can confidently say that we have not had that same experience. I'm not talking about using one at a store with unknown firmware or apps installed, either, I'm talking about months of time with both phones. They preform very similarly (which is probably a plus for the iPhone 5 since it's several months older), but I have all of the Google Now cards going and a bunch of Tasker profiles, including location based profiles, running. If she turns Google Now on it destroys her battery. She also had two days where she couldn't open the iTunes store on her phone without the app immediately crashing and she's currently having problems with iMessage. When she first got iOS 7 she talked about how she liked the settings panel, but then quickly realized she was impressed with a feature that she had on her past two Android phones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Malix View Post
    Regarding cost. The phones that are top end are all $200 for me (living in the US) - so iPhone 5S is no-brainer when it comes to pricing. But even in full prices I dont understand how you see comparable phones that these phones are cheaper then iPhones. If you're going by spec sheet comparing to iPhone's you're comparing low budget Android phones, but we both know they dont live up to the iPhone even if they have the same specs. <--- is that what you're talking by saying phones are cheaper? because those phones wont work for me...
    I'll start here. For $200 you can get either a 16GB iPhone 5S or a 16GB Galaxy S4, unless you look for a better price. Sprint has the S4 for $150 right now. It won't be long before other carriers start dropping the price as other new phones come out. The 5S will stay its current price for a full year.

    Though let's ignore that and pretend the S4 won't drop in price. For $200 you can get either one. Let's say that you need more space for pictures and music. The 32GB 5S is $300. You can buy a 16GB uSD card for about $15. That's an $85 price difference. Let's say that you want the memory internal. The 32GB S4 is $250, for a savings of $50 (and you still have the option of adding more memory via a uSD card). Lets say you want 64GB for your whole music collection. The 5S is $400. You can get a 64GB uSD card for $50, so you can either have 80GB for $250 for a savings of $150, 64GB (32 internal 32 uSD) for $275 for a savings of $125 or 96GB for $300 for a savings of $100.

    If you go with the HTC One (another phone with specs similar to the S4) you can get 32GB internal for $200 at the most. It's not uncommon to find them for $150. That's $100 to $150 less than the 5S. The 64GB One is also $100 less than the 64GB 5S.

    So the only way the 5S is cheaper is if you stick with the 16GB version, which many consider to be nowhere near enough storage space.

    Keep in mind that the iPhone 5 had the same pricing as the 5S until a couple weeks ago. So a month ago we'd be comparing phones with similar to better benchmarks that cost less for more storage. That will happen with the 5S as well.

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