Why do (Android) phones need so many cores?

meyerweb#CB

Banned
Sep 4, 2009
6,668
5
0
Visit site
Apple didn't even design the "simple icon homescreen." The Palm Pilot had that in the 1980s, and if you want to limit it to smartphones the Palm Treo had it well before the iPhone was released. Microsoft, and others, were experimenting with multi-touch many years before Apple introduced it, albeit not on phone. Apple copied pretty much everything.

If the PTO actually paid attention to prior art, 90% of Apple's patents would have been denied.
 
Last edited:

abazigal

Well-known member
May 12, 2013
174
0
0
Visit site
Remember the first iPhone? Remember how slow it was with its single core processor? Are we really going to argue that an increase in CPU power does not generally mean faster CPU performance? Because in general it does.

It does, but the context of the discussion is that beyond a certain point, the additional cores provide only very marginal benefit, or may even hinder the phone from working as well as it should.

I am willing to bet that the majority of android phone users aren't doing anything that require more than 2 processor cores, and that they may be better off using a dual core processor with faster clock speeds.
 

JeffDenver

Banned
May 3, 2010
2,998
27
0
Visit site
It does, but the context of the discussion is that beyond a certain point, the additional cores provide only very marginal benefit, or may even hinder the phone from working as well as it should.

I am willing to bet that the majority of android phone users aren't doing anything that require more than 2 processor cores, and that they may be better off using a dual core processor with faster clock speeds.
I am willing to bet the vast majority of Android users will have situations where the extra speed would be useful, even if it is not every day.

And apps are not getting LESS resource demanding as time goes on. More CPU power extends the useful life of the phone.
 

abazigal

Well-known member
May 12, 2013
174
0
0
Visit site
I am willing to bet the vast majority of Android users will have situations where the extra speed would be useful, even if it is not every day.

And apps are not getting LESS resource demanding as time goes on. More CPU power extends the useful life of the phone.

That would be an argument for faster cores, not more cores. If anything, since more cores produce more heat, they would have a lower speed to reduce the heat generated, which probably explains why 2 cores can be faster than 4 cores in many scenarios.
 

nessinhaw

Well-known member
Dec 14, 2013
122
0
0
Visit site
i think lack of optimization and the heavy UIs the OEMs put over Android are one good point!

i'll mention the Moto G because it proved a phone with a SoC like the Snapdragon 400 and 1GB RAM CAN run smoothly and have good battery, specially if it is running stock Android and not some heavy buggy UI!

ofc, it's a quad-core BUT we have A7@1.2Ghz so it's not like it's a powerful one, still, it delivers rly good performance!

sent from my Moto G <3
 

A895

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2012
2,369
2
0
Visit site
i think lack of optimization and the heavy UIs the OEMs put over Android are one good point!

i'll mention the Moto G because it proved a phone with a SoC like the Snapdragon 400 and 1GB RAM CAN run smoothly and have good battery, specially if it is running stock Android and not some heavy buggy UI!

ofc, it's a quad-core BUT we have A7@1.2Ghz so it's not like it's a powerful one, still, it delivers rly good performance!

sent from my Moto G <3

He problem is that a there is a good number of android devices that are stock and low cost but still suck. Moto G is an exception because they updates it fast and did some optimization.

Posted via Moto X or Droid RAZR M on the Android Central App
 

garublador

Well-known member
May 20, 2013
1,135
0
0
Visit site
That has not happened for a long time. The last time that happened was with the 4S...Apple has not done anything but play catch up since then.
I'd consider 64-bit processors to be in this category, but it's in the "do phones really need this?" category as well. They almost had it with the cores dedicated to monitoring sensors, but the Moto X came out a few months ahead of them. I think we're getting to the flat spot of the "S-curve" for smartphones (i.e. the technology is relatively mature) so there isn't really a whole lot of revolutionary stuff left. Anything actually revolutionary will change how we think about smartphones (like the jump from pre iPhone smartphones to post iPhone smartphones), not just add useful features. It's not Apple's fault they haven't come up with anything big, there just might not be anything big left.
 

JRDroid

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2012
1,483
0
0
Visit site
Hey all,

I have been wondering about this recently, and thought I'd ask here. Why do Android phones need so many cores on their processors? If at all?

The iPhone 5s still has a 2 core processor and it runs brilliantly. For years now one of the focus points for Android phones has been the number of cores it has. It's kind of like the "megapixel wars" of cameras. More is better. Don't buy this dual-core processor phone, ours has EIGHT! But really, are they necessary?


Some might say battery life is increased through having more as lower frequency cores can be utilised for light tasks, however looking at the Anandtech review for the Moto X we can see that there is not much difference. Interestingly enough, they concluded that having 2 cores didn't improve battery life much either, contrary to Googorola's claims.

So at the end of the day, what does it come down to? Is it simply that all these cores are necessary because OEMs such as Samsung aren't willing to spend the time and effort required to optimise their phones to perform well on processors with less cores? Perhaps it is simply like the aforementioned "megapixel wars" of cameras, and more cores is predominantly a marketing ploy?

Either way it will be interesting to see what kind of processors Motorola use in the future after being bought by Lenovo, and where Samsung, HTC et al. go from here.

Okay, your thread degenerated quickly into an Apple vs. Android contest that did not actually address your question. Because of that, I just skimmed most of that, so I appologize if my answer to the question contains information already covered elsewhere in the thread.

The first reason Android phones need more cores than the iPhone is that Android is less hardware optemized than iOS. Because Apple is a single integrated company, their OS is fine tuned to run only on their hardware. Android however does not get this optemization because it needs to run on a large variety of hardware specs. This leads us to our second point.

Point two, Android runs apps in a virtual machine. It uses Dalvik right now and may switch to ART in the future. Virtual machines are generally less efficient than running outside of a virtual machine. Using the virtual machine strategey eliminates many of the headaches developers would otherwise face trying to run their apps on a variety of phones with a variety of cpu/gpu combos from a variety of chip makers by giving a more uniform development environment. iOS does not run apps in a virtual machine, so it does not have this inefficiency, but it comes at the expense of hardware choice. Note that Windows does not run apps in a VM, but all Windows devices used x86/x64 processors until recently and ARM Windows devices do not run older windows apps. If Android did not use a VM, which apps you could run would be highly processor dependent, which, with very few exceptions, is not the case right now.

Thirdly is multitasking. Android has real multitasking that allows multiple apps to be running at once. iOS, in general, does not allow that. This means that you can have a lot more threads being executed at once in Android than in iOS. Since each core can only handle one thread at a time, more cores means more threads being executed at once. Now, a dual core processor can still outpace a quadcore processor if it can process threads more efficiently/quickly. But, all other aspects of a processor being equal, more cores will execute more threads at once. Some apps are even multi-core optimized so they can send their threads to multiple cores at once. Or if you are running 2-3 apps at once, each app can have its own processor core so it does not have to wait on the other apps threads to execute, which greatly slows down the phone and is a huge part of why pre-dual core processor Android phones were so much slower and so much less smooth than contemporary iPhones.

Okay, that is enough actual information for one thread, you may now return to your regularly scheduled fanboy battle already in progress.
 

abazigal

Well-known member
May 12, 2013
174
0
0
Visit site
I'd consider 64-bit processors to be in this category, but it's in the "do phones really need this?" category as well. They almost had it with the cores dedicated to monitoring sensors, but the Moto X came out a few months ahead of them. I think we're getting to the flat spot of the "S-curve" for smartphones (i.e. the technology is relatively mature) so there isn't really a whole lot of revolutionary stuff left. Anything actually revolutionary will change how we think about smartphones (like the jump from pre iPhone smartphones to post iPhone smartphones), not just add useful features. It's not Apple's fault they haven't come up with anything big, there just might not be anything big left.

Well, in theory, the idea of your iPhone or iPad running 4gb ram and 64-bit processor sporting desktop-class productivity apps seems quite seductive. Then Apple proceeds to hobble their devices by shipping their iPads with just 1 gb of ram, which makes you wonder just how dedicated they are towards making their iPads capable computing devices???

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

A895

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2012
2,369
2
0
Visit site
Well, in theory, the idea of your iPhone or iPad running 4gb ram and 64-bit processor sporting desktop-class productivity apps seems quite seductive. Then Apple proceeds to hobble their devices by shipping their iPads with just 1 gb of ram, which makes you wonder just how dedicated they are towards making their iPads capable computing devices???

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

That's the point they are not dedicated to that purpose.

Posted via Moto X or Droid RAZR M on the Android Central App
 

JeffDenver

Banned
May 3, 2010
2,998
27
0
Visit site
That would be an argument for faster cores, not more cores.
How is it different in this context is the fastest CPUs are multi-core?

If anything, since more cores produce more heat
How do you know more cores always produces more heat?

It's just engineering. Has nothing to do with the number of them, but how well they are made.

they would have a lower speed to reduce the heat generated, which probably explains why 2 cores can be faster than 4 cores in many scenarios.
If that was true the fastest cores would be dual core most of the time instead of the other way around. Any argument you have made for dual core can be made for quad core as well. Apple's CPU are well made...thats why they are fast and low heat. Not because they are dual core.
 

JeffDenver

Banned
May 3, 2010
2,998
27
0
Visit site
Well, in theory, the idea of your iPhone or iPad running 4gb ram and 64-bit processor sporting desktop-class productivity apps seems quite seductive. Then Apple proceeds to hobble their devices by shipping their iPads with just 1 gb of ram, which makes you wonder just how dedicated they are towards making their iPads capable computing devices???
They are choosing to make different compromises. They cannot do both and maintain their profit margins. So they have chosen to go the low power/better engineered route. Android tends to do the opposite and spam low-engineered hardware en masse to get the performance they want.
 

JeffDenver

Banned
May 3, 2010
2,998
27
0
Visit site
I'd consider 64-bit processors to be in this category, but it's in the "do phones really need this?" category as well. They almost had it with the cores dedicated to monitoring sensors, but the Moto X came out a few months ahead of them. I think we're getting to the flat spot of the "S-curve" for smartphones (i.e. the technology is relatively mature) so there isn't really a whole lot of revolutionary stuff left. Anything actually revolutionary will change how we think about smartphones (like the jump from pre iPhone smartphones to post iPhone smartphones), not just add useful features. It's not Apple's fault they haven't come up with anything big, there just might not be anything big left.
I disagree. There horizons have just changed...it will no longer be as much about CPU and RAM and display...now it will be camera and storage. There is LOTS of room for improvement on cameras especially (I want perfect lowlight photos and video, at high resolutions and 60fps and I want optical zoom). And storage will never be sufficient until we can store the same data on our phones as on our PCs (meaning media...photos, music, videos). Right now the very high end is 150gigs or so, and that is expensive. It needs to be so cheap it is commonplace, like 1080p is now for displays.

There is room for growth on the gaming front too, which is mostly GPUs and software:


I agree that the core tech is mature. But the hardware wars are far from over. And that is not good news for Apple.
 

dc9super80

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2013
134
0
0
Visit site
Well, in theory, the idea of your iPhone or iPad running 4gb ram and 64-bit processor sporting desktop-class productivity apps seems quite seductive. Then Apple proceeds to hobble their devices by shipping their iPads with just 1 gb of ram, which makes you wonder just how dedicated they are towards making their iPads capable computing devices???

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Different priorities. I hear few people complain about the iPad, regardless of how they use it, in their homes, at school in various industries. The iPad does exactly what it is supposed to do and reasonably well enough. So maybe it is safe to conclude that Apple knows what they are doing. What?s more Apple?s move to 64bit is it not about now, it is most certainly setting up for the future.

If you need a traditional desktop experience, there are a variety of MacBooks available that specialise in that sort of computing. I rather appreciate Apple?s approach to separating the capabilities of their products.
 

JRDroid

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2012
1,483
0
0
Visit site
If anything, since more cores produce more heat, they would have a lower speed to reduce the heat generated, which probably explains why 2 cores can be faster than 4 cores in many scenarios.

Nope nope nope. Clock speed has more to due with heat than number of cores. More cores generally run cooler because they do not need to be clocked as fast. The reason 2 cores can outperform 4 cores usually lies in applications that either are not optimized for more than two cores or have threads that have to be executed in serial, not parallel. In both of those scenarios, a dual core processor with a faster clock speed will have the potential to outperfomr a quadcore processor clocked at a slower speed.
 

Haalcyon

Banned
Jul 19, 2013
7,662
0
0
Visit site
They are choosing to make different compromises. They cannot do both and maintain their profit margins. So they have chosen to go the low power/better engineered route. Android tends to do the opposite and spam low-engineered hardware en masse to get the performance they want.

I don't think Apple has any interest in making the iPad compete with their laptops. I think they look at the experience that currently exists and try to make it as robust as possible while keeping things simple while minimizing cannibalization to their their higher end products. They have no desire to make an iPad that removes the need to have a MacBook, so we may not see an iPad with 4GB of RAM, etc. anytime real soon. All of this is conjecture, of course but that's my take. I think the iPad tends to do okay and it's certainly something you see used often commercially and in educational settings more so than its competition.


via the tablet
 

LegalAmerican

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2012
2,330
156
0
Visit site
I like Android but I'm also not a blind fanboy. More than likely, it's device design would still look like Blackberrys and WinMo phones with physical keypads if the iPhone never brought the smartphone mainstream with its slate design and gesture based touchscreen. You have to give credit where credit is due.

I agree. Android copied Apple in that they created a rectangular device that was full touchscreen covering the entire face of the device. Apple copied Android in almost every single aspect of the way the device interacts with the user and it's appearance. To me, it seems that one design was a pretty obvious evolution, while the other was one company showing a complete lack of creativity. If we're all about giving credit where it's due, you go right ahead and do so from both sides.
 

Members online

Trending Posts

Forum statistics

Threads
943,011
Messages
6,916,881
Members
3,158,773
Latest member
Chelsea rae