Nexus 4 Wi-Fi Hotspot

zkSharks

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But, what is the point??

If my plan offers me 5 GB per month at "full" speed and then drops off to 2G speeds, what difference does/should it make to the carrier how I use my allotment, how quickly I use it, or what I use it for?

I think this is exactly why nearly all carriers are moving to capped data service in some form or another. Their ability to maintain control and/or limit device-specific usage is rapidly declining as the number of users and amount of data increases and, besides, there is always the risk of courts and or regulators stepping in and saying what I said above: 5 GB is 5 GB and it should not matter to anyone how I choose to distribute that amongst my devices.

Certain devices tend to lend themselves to different types of data usage. Tethered devices tend to have larger screens, and tend to favor multimedia streaming more so than a phone -- though that is not always the case. Different types of network usage put load on the network infrastructure in different ways, and controlling hotspot/tether usage allows the carriers to have more control over network strain. Two specific examples are high-priority, latency-dependent online gaming, and lower-priority, bandwidth-dependent multimedia streaming.

The carriers need to be able to balance network performance in all of these areas (response time, average bandwidth, user load, and network type [2G/3G/LTE]) to deliver an optimal experience overall.
 

Citizen Coyote

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But, what is the point??

If my plan offers me 5 GB per month at "full" speed and then drops off to 2G speeds, what difference does/should it make to the carrier how I use my allotment, how quickly I use it, or what I use it for?

I think this is exactly why nearly all carriers are moving to capped data service in some form or another. Their ability to maintain control and/or limit device-specific usage is rapidly declining as the number of users and amount of data increases and, besides, there is always the risk of courts and or regulators stepping in and saying what I said above: 5 GB is 5 GB and it should not matter to anyone how I choose to distribute that amongst my devices.

I agree with you totally; if you have a data cap, you should be able to use your allotment as you wish. As you hinted at, some of the courts feel the same as well. Verizon now includes tethering on their LTE phones because they were required to do so due to the agreements attached to the spectrum they bought. Hotspot service is gravy for carriers, though, so the more people they can get signed up for this extra the better their bottom line. I expect more to start including it "for free" (read: bundle it and boost the price) in the future.
 

zkSharks

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I agree with you totally; if you have a data cap, you should be able to use your allotment as you wish. As you hinted at, some of the courts feel the same as well. Verizon now includes tethering on their LTE phones because they were required to do so due to the agreements attached to the spectrum they bought. Hotspot service is gravy for carriers, though, so the more people they can get signed up for this extra the better their bottom line. I expect more to start including it "for free" (read: bundle it and boost the price) in the future.

I was hoping someone would bring up the C-block spectrum rulings. Hotspot availability will definitely become more open in the future, but it's anyone's guess on how long it will be before regulatory policies truly catch up to the technology.
 

skiptomylou

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The nexus 4 is pure android the carrier does not have any tracking stuff on it so it would be Harder for the carrier to see usage of the WiFi hotspot feature, but they may be getting smarter with detection
I may be wrong but I got the sense that they were doing detection through filtering on their end, not something on the phone. The fact that they started blocking HTTPS and not all traffic, and only through my tethered device and not the phone's internet browser, made me think that it was something they were controlling on their side. particularly since they talked about their improved detection, which you'd think they wouldn't be implementing in the form of patches to all their old phone models. Also, I've heard that people have had success using a useragent switcher on their laptop browser, making it appear like a mobile browser. (the downside is that you'll get mobile versions of websites by default.) One other thing -- I also had trouble using SSH from my laptop, which makes me think they're not just filtering based on browser string but at the packet level on anything that uses SSL.

I think they see this as massive lost revenue and are going to be doing everything they can to ban tethering, and that will include the N4.
 

N4Newbie

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Why on earth would they block https trafic? So you can't do online banking? Email? Buy stuff online?

This makes no sense whatsoever.
 

6tr6tr

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unfortunately, tmobile can and will do their best to detect "unauthorized" wifi hotspot traffic, and block you.

I got my MyTouch 4G in Feb 2011 and used the built-in wifi hotspot for over a year. Sometime this summer I got a text message from t-mo saying I was about to be blocked, and a couple days later I was -- the hotspot wouldn't work anymore. I complained and a support rep said I could always download an app like PDANet that provided mobile tethering. I did that, worked OK, but a couple months later I found that any HTTPS connection -- including google.com -- wouldn't work on my connected laptop, would just time out. I called t-mo and they did something to fix it, but a week later the problem was back again and an hour later I got a text from t-mo saying i should upgrade to hotspot service or some traffic would be blocked. I called t-mo again and they confirmed that I needed to purchase the hotspot service. they said their technology was catching up with their policies so they were better able to find and block people who were using other hotspot services. I wasn't using much data, just checking email and web surfing from a laptop here and there.

Did you try it with the user-agent on your desktop browser set to imitate a mobile browser?
 

soma4society

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Did you try it with the user-agent on your desktop browser set to imitate a mobile browser?

Not sure that would do it. The TTL settings on the out going--that is, the tethered-- device would likely need to be changed to cloak it effectively.

I came across a fascinating dialogue about this very topic in a forum a while back .... Its an iOS forum, and the two principal discussants (who appear to have forgotten more about this stuff than I'll ever know) were referring to ATTs sniffing practices, but I think its likely relevant for tMO too. Here's the link ... lengthy reading but worth it.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1140306

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dan1431

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I know that the Carrier Branded Galaxy S2 and maybe the S3s have a built in program called tethering manager which checks with the provider to determine if the customer has the privilege tether or not.

Dan
 
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6tr6tr

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Not sure that would do it. The TTL settings on the out going--that is, the tethered-- device would likely need to be changed to cloak it effectively.

I came across a fascinating dialogue about this very topic in a forum a while back .... Its an iOS forum, and the two principal discussants (who appear to have forgotten more about this stuff than I'll ever know) were referring to ATTs sniffing practices, but I think its likely relevant for tMO too. Here's the link ... lengthy reading but worth it.

[iPhone] TTL modification to cloak tethered packets - let's make them work harder to catch us. - MacRumors Forums

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums

I have previously read that TMobile just checks user agent, so you might want to try it.
 

skiptomylou

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Why on earth would they block https trafic? So you can't do online banking? Email? Buy stuff online?

This makes no sense whatsoever.
totally agree; made no sense to me either but it's what they're doing. google.com is https, so I can't even do a google search from a tethered device. I decided they don't want to block me completely, they just want to annoy the crap out of me.
 

N4Newbie

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totally agree; made no sense to me either but it's what they're doing. google.com is https, so I can't even do a google search from a tethered device. I decided they don't want to block me completely, they just want to annoy the crap out of me.

Interesting...

Slightly off-topic alert ----

Here on my wife's notebook, if I open Firefox, type "google" in the address bar and hit Ctrl-Enter (or "google.com" and Enter), it does indeed take me to "https://www.google.com". Now, if I go up into the address bar, delete the offending 's' and hit Enter, it takes me to "www.google.com" - right clicking the page and selecting info shows that I am now viewing "http://www.google.com". However, typing "http://www.google.com" (with or without the www) takes me back to the https page.

On the other hand, same computer, IE8 defaults to the http page.

Which browser are you using on your tethered device?
 

JDEAR22

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I have a N4 and I'm using T-mobile. I don't have the HotSpot feature on my line. I was able to use it, but 600mb later my laptop was directed to a T-mobile page that asks me to add the feature. I haven't used it since.

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anon1020562

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Something I've never gotten is why exactly tethering/hotspot requires paying extra. You have unlimited data don't you? Well, of course it's not truly unlimited, but the point remains, you signed up for x amount of data. Shouldn't you be free to use that data how you see fit? Is a byte of data being sent to/from a phone any different than that another byte of data sent to/from a computer? No, of course not.
 

soma4society

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I have at&t with an unlimited plan, can I use the hotspot or tether feature?

Your grandfathered unlimited plan only applies to the primary device...your phone in other words. If you tether you are violating ATTs TOS, and may be forced onto a tiered data plan if your tethering is detected. So your choices are as follows:

1. Pay extra for their legit tethering package (annoyingly pricey, but the least hassle)
2. Tether and attempt to cloak your usage by modifying settings such as browser agent and outgoing TTL (doable but a bit of a pain, and brings no guarantee it will work 100%)

From experience, I can tell you ATT monitors tethering religiously. If you choose option two you may get away with it for a while, and if/when they detect you, they'll send you a polite but firmly worded ?cease and desist" text. And if you continue they'll just move your account to a tethering data plan.

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soma4society

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Something I've never gotten is why exactly tethering/hotspot requires paying extra. You have unlimited data don't you? Well, of course it's not truly unlimited, but the point remains, you signed up for x amount of data. Shouldn't you be free to use that data how you see fit? Is a byte of data being sent to/from a phone any different than that another byte of data sent to/from a computer? No, of course not.

This subject has been debated at length in countless forums. The short answer to your last question is no, the byte of data itself is no different. But the usage behavior of the customer who does the tethering often becomes different, esp. when they go from a4.5 inch phone screen to a 15" laptop for their data activities. They tend to use more--a lot more. Is this their right in an unlimited plan? In theory, yes (though technically no, because att's TOS forbids unauthorized tethering). And because all mobile data is shared and finite, a small percentage of yahoos that use 25+ gigs of data/month can affect others' ability to enjoy the network.

Should att have thought about this before offering unlimited? Yes.
Should they just upgrade to accommodate the volume of data traffic? Yes.
Is att out to make money any way it can, like just about any company, and will they? Yes.

I applaud T-Mobile for bucking the limited data plan tend; it was a canny business move--and it persuaded me to cross over after 7 years with att. But I for one will not try to get away with unauthorized tethering. If I want to do so, I'll go about it the legitimate way and pay for that kind of data package.





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skiptomylou

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This subject has been debated at length in countless forums. The short answer to your last question is no, the byte of data itself is no different. But the usage behavior of the customer who does the tethering often becomes different, esp. when they go from a4.5 inch phone screen to a 15" laptop for their data activities. They tend to use more--a lot more. Is this their right in an unlimited plan? In theory, yes (though technically no, because att's TOS forbids unauthorized tethering). And because all mobile data is shared and finite, a small percentage of yahoos that use 25+ gigs of data/month can affect others' ability to enjoy the network.
With the world moving to mobile though, and with faster and faster mobile processors, this distinction is getting fuzzier as people can't use data *that* much faster with a laptop than a smartphone. I can sort of understand on an unlimited data plan, but on a limited plan it's annoying -- shouldn't I be able to churn through my 2GB of high-speed access however I wish?
 

klau25

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how about tethering from phone to my Nexus 7? Will they be able to tell?

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soma4society

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how about tethering from phone to my Nexus 7? Will they be able to tell?

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From what I've gathered from people much smarter about this topic than I am, the answer to that is very likely to be yes.

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klau25

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From what I've gathered from people much smarter about this topic than I am, the answer to that is very likely to be yes.

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thanks. yeah, that's more important now a days since I hardly ever take my laptop out if the house with me.

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