Welcome to the Android Central Forums Create Your Account or Ask a Question Answers in 5 minutes - no registration required!
Results 1 to 21 of 21
Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By natehoy
  • 1 Post By natehoy
  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  
    evperry's Avatar

    Posts
    335 Posts
    Global Posts
    562 Global Posts

    Default If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    If Apple doesn't have to go through the carrier for update why does Google?

    I'm glad they decided to dump Verizon and AT&T on this. My hope is that they sell enough to make it clear to Verizon that they don't need them to sell Google branded phones. It was a very good decision and I hope that they sell enough to make a difference.

    This time next year they could possibly have a release on all major carriers simultaneously BUT they will all be updated without issue. That 3-6 month delay is non sense and is the reason I dumped Verizon and went to TMobile.

    Google is no longer willing to be pushed around. The Android system is dominant so it's about time they were treated as such.

    The future for Google branded phones just got stronger by this one move.

    Good work.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
  2. #2  
    bunique4life05's Avatar

    Posts
    1,576 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,580 Global Posts
    ROM
    Stock

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Apple iPhone bring mass amounts customers to a carrier that offers them as well the high demand and potential profit is why Apple gets to call the shots. The Nexus devices do not bring in the numbers that Apple does to appeal to the Carriers. Carriers want the iPhone but don't think care for Nexus at this time.

    Sent from my ADR6400L using Android Central Forums
    Google is for the people and by the people. Android is for the people and by the tech people. Nexus is for the geeks and by the geeks.
    Solve
    [Nexus (A) + the latest and greatest tech] < [Nexus (B) + the best proven and optimize tech]
    Answer
    Nexus (A) is less than Nexus (B)
    Nexus (B) is greater than Nexus (A)
    ______
  3. #3  
    DirkBelig's Avatar

    Posts
    1,285 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,430 Global Posts
    ROM
    Stock

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Because the iPhone, for all the smack we talk about it, has tens of millions of people willing to line up and buy and the carriers are willing to trade their ability to bloatware up the phone in exchange for getting all those people on contract. Apple has leverage; Google doesn't and that's because Google isn't the only supplier of Android phones. Here in America, the carriers hold all the power because they can pick and choose who gets on their airwaves and impose conditions for entry.

    The Verizon GNex was screwed over and as we've seen, Google's only way to win was to not even play their game, not that all the LTE emo crybabies trapped on Big Red didn't fill their diapers over it here for the past 2-1/2 weeks. This doesn't even count the delays phone makers introduce because they have to slather Android in their own MotoTouchSenseBlurWiz sauce. The only way Google could do what Apple does is for them to go vertical and make the phones themselves and not license it to everyone else and that simply will never happen. Google isn't a hardware company; they sell software (actually, they're an advertising company; that's their real core product) like Microsoft and thus like M$ can't tell HP to not put their own applications on their computers, Google can't really dictate to makers and carriers what they do with the OS regardless of how it gums up the update process.
    "The OnePlus One is such a big black slab of power that if you dropped it down in the middle of a pack of monkeys, they'd start using weapons." - Dirk Belligerent.
    Devices: 64GB OnePlus One, 32GB Nexus 5, 16GB Nexus 7 (2013), 16GB Nexus 4, ASUS Transformer TF101, Kindle Fire, HP TouchPad (CM7)
  4. #4  

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    The main thing Apple has going for them with this is the fact that they've done their own updates since the beginning. They told the carriers to stick it up front and went in selling unsubsidized devices to keep the user experience the way they wanted it. Once AT&T saw that folks were gobbling up iPhones by the truck load they eventually started offering the subsidy to lock people in and Verizon, Sprint and T-Mobile started banging on Apples door begging for a piece of the pie.

    Conversely, every other OEM has had their terms dictated to them by the carriers. Its been "take it or leave it and maybe we'll sell your device" with them and at this point it will be hard to put the ketchup back in the bottle there.
  5. #5  
    natehoy's Avatar

    Posts
    1,634 Posts
    ROM
    Stock

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Apple cannot update without carrier interference. Apple, however, does things differently enough from Google that the carriers have a better opportunity and more willingness to play ball.

    Apple releases operating system updates once or twice a year, tops. They have a customer base who (by and large) values stability over the latest features. So iOS is released to the carriers months before it needs to be rolled out to the customers, with a clear deadline dictated by Apple.

    Apple also has a large customer base at any carrier they choose to do business with, all running a very, VERY small selection of phones that need to be updated (usually the last 3-4 models of phone at most - ignoring the various memory sizes). So once the code hits the carrier, each carrier has four specific phone models to build the implemented version against, and the build is largely adding radio drivers and any other special sauce they feel they need to add. So carriers can make and test builds for all relevant models in a matter of a few weeks, and they have months to accomplish it.

    Compare that with Android:
    1. Deep fragmentation in hardware from many manufacturers with differences in hardware, including the cell radios.
    2. Updates have to come from Google, then hit the phone manufacturer so they can add their hardware drivers for their screens, cameras, etc and their custom launchers (Touchwiz, Sense, etc). Then hit the carrier for addition of radio drivers (for non-GSM/GPRS/EDGE/HSPA+ radios) and bloatware.
    3. Google releases updates to the OS to AOSP every few months.

    If a carrier takes on the iPhone, they are taking on a commitment to assist in crafting one update for maybe 4-5 phone models once or twice a year. In return, they get a customer base that can often account for half their smartphone customer base or more. It's MILLIONS of almost guaranteed new customers for a small commitment.

    As far as Android, well, one does not simply walk into Mordor. If a carrier wants to carry Android phones, chances are they'll have at least two or three competing Flagship models at any given time, each requiring frequent updates that will be different from each other, coming from different manufacturers on different release schedules, using different radio drivers from model to model. Flagship status will move from phone to phone several times a year, and you'll have at least 2-3 of them at any time, so if you look at just the "Flagship" phones you sold in the last two years you're looking at a minimum of 15-20 diverse models from at least 2-3 manufacturers, each with their own UI you need to accommodate for in your build for that phone.

    The ideal answer, of course, is for the carriers to either adopt cell radio standards or at least publish open drivers for their proprietary networks. T-Mobile, AT&T, and others have adopted GSM and implemented it plain-vanilla as per standard. So any international-standard phone that can adapt to US-assigned GSM frequencies will work seamlessly with AT&T, up to but not including LTE. Search Amazon for "unlocked AT&T phone" and prepare to get lost in a sea of third-party-built phones that AT&T will happily accommodate on their network. Buy one, pop in your SIM, maybe make a few APN changes so the phone learns how to turn on data, and Bob's your uncle.

    Sprint and Verizon have chosen to keep and in fact complicate their proprietary networks (Verizon actually has a specific 3G/CDMA protocol for the Thunderbolt and Rezound that allow them simultaneous voice and data over 3G - no other phones on the Verizon network I'm aware of use this protocol). In order to put a phone on their networks, you need to involve them. Not just from a manufacturing perspective, but phone-by-phone. Search Amazon for "unlocked Verizon phone".

    Nexus phones have a chicken-and-egg problem. Until sufficient people start demanding Android and frequent updates, the carriers don't have any incentive to put that much effort into frequently updating dozens of phones to get relatively few customers per phone, or opening up their networks to phones they don't HAVE to support. And unless the carriers open their networks up or commit to frequent updates, customers will look at phones like the N4 and say (quite understandably) "No LTE? No CDMA? Pfffttt.. useless niche toy."

    My next phone will be a Nexus. Of necessity, then, that phone will be GSM and probably not have LTE. And that's fine by me - I value frequent OS updates and the latest features over absolute stability and the fastest network speeds. For the forseeable future, we will be in the minority. And I honestly don't care, because I can now buy unlocked phones for the same prices all my friends are paying with 2-year commitments, and save money month-to-month by buying contractless prepaid plans and "carrier hopping" to save money if I choose.
    Thanked by:
    DirkBelig likes this.
  6. Thread Author  Thread Author    #6  
    evperry's Avatar

    Posts
    335 Posts
    Global Posts
    562 Global Posts

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    That's my point. If you can't get Verizon and at&t to play ball then you do it yourself. They don't have the juice that Apple has, that's fine but if they start building a product that sells out in 6 hours all across the WORLD, then the carriers are gonna pay attention.

    If you think about it, the carriers don't care how much they make on the phone, the idea is to get you for 2 years and make their profit that way. the reality is that Google can do it alone and not make a large profit on the phone and just let tmobile and at&t handle the service. It's a win for all except Verizon and sprint. This will introduce people who otherwise would NEVER try tmobile to their service and those people, like me, will realize the cost savings and the great coverage. If that doesn't work then it's back to at&t. And by the way at&t is just fine on LTE and outside of nyc.

    After the MetroPCS reverse merger with TMobile all of a sudden tmobile is gonna be a strong 4th. They are the best positioned for the future model of cell phone providers.

    My hope is that they don't make a CDMA phone until the carriers allow for updating without interference. It would also be nice if the new standard of LTE would all use sim cards so we could bring our own phones to any carrier in USA.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
  7. #7  
    natehoy's Avatar

    Posts
    1,634 Posts
    ROM
    Stock

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Quote Originally Posted by evperry View Post
    My hope is that they don't make a CDMA phone until the carriers allow for updating without interference. It would also be nice if the new standard of LTE would all use sim cards so we could bring our own phones to any carrier in USA.
    I suspect after the Galaxy Nexus debacle Google is done playing the CDMA game.

    LTE is not a matter of using SIMs, heck my HTC Thunderbolt uses a SIM. LTE is a matter of adopting a standard, and that includes a voice circuit which has to be GSM or CDMA. And Verizon and some other carriers have other control issues where putting a SIM is not sufficient to join their network - they also have to key the IMEI# into their database associated with your account, or you can't play.

    Once VoLTE becomes the standard and we don't need a GSM or CDMA fallback, maybe we'll have interoperability, but some carriers have to give up a little control first.
  8. #8  

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    The world revolves about money, not gravity as science would let you believe. Its more time consuming and costy to update 1000000 different models or android, then to update 4 iphones. Not to mention Apple on a single product draws lines and money.
    Tom Fairclough
    Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae
    I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune
  9. #9  
    cyanogen-man's Avatar

    Posts
    1,048 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,049 Global Posts
    ROM
    ice cold sandwich aokp

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Idk sometimes the carriers lo e proprietary. Proprietary works in their favor. I mean think of it like this. If, you can get the same phone on any carrier.: Why bother going to that carrier if the price isn't rite. They love proprietary simple reason if they lock you down with an exclusive they call the shots, and dictate terms. Until we can all ban togearher then, with our string knock the giant down. It will never be as seem less as the iOS push. I know I mite sound a little nutty but think about it. Until we as a whole unite, and send our messeve with force we will be lambs for the slaughter to them.

    INSPIRE AOKP ICE COLD SANDWICH ROM
  10. #10  
    Ziptied's Avatar
    Your Resident Googler

    Posts
    536 Posts
    Global Posts
    768 Global Posts
    ROM
    Stock

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Nexus devices account for less than 1% of the Android Ecosystem and aren't very popular sellers by comparison to others. When you have apple's weight to throw around in that their phones make carriers absorbent amounts of money, the carriers will bend. The Nexus line will never do this for a carrier, and it's not our model for it anyways.
    Google it.
    Thanked by 2:
    Rysmoker337 
  11. #11  

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziptied View Post
    Nexus devices account for less than 1% of the Android Ecosystem and aren't very popular sellers by comparison to others. When you have apple's weight to throw around in that their phones make carriers absorbent amounts of money, the carriers will bend. The Nexus line will never do this for a carrier, and it's not our model for it anyways.
    you're doing it right now with the verizon galaxy nexus
  12. #12  
    Ziptied's Avatar
    Your Resident Googler

    Posts
    536 Posts
    Global Posts
    768 Global Posts
    ROM
    Stock

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Quote Originally Posted by skarletknite View Post
    you're doing it right now with the verizon galaxy nexus
    Negative.
    Google it.
  13. #13  
    natehoy's Avatar

    Posts
    1,634 Posts
    ROM
    Stock

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Quote Originally Posted by skarletknite View Post
    you're doing it right now with the verizon galaxy nexus
    Verizon's (and Sprint's) Galaxy Nexus is a Nexus in name only. While admittedly it receives updates quite a bit more quickly than non-Nexus phones in general, receiving Jelly Bean for the first time in late September of this year when JB has been out since July is not the expectation Google wanted to set with the "Nexus" series of phones.

    Verizon wanted a "Nexus" phone because it was the hot sexy of Android phones. They felt it could push a few tens of thousands of extra units. Now that they aren't selling like hotcakes any more, Verizon is back-burnering it like they do every other phone. Verizon has made their money off their use of the Nexus name and have no further interest in it.

    I bet people will be well over their New Year's Eve hangovers and probably planning easter egg hunts before the GNex (Verizon and Sprint versions) get 4.2. (side note: The GSM Galaxy Nexus got 4.2 the same day my Nexus 7 did).

    Which will, admittedly, be better treatment than Verizon has given a bunch of its actual Flagship models (cough, cough, ICS for my Thunderbolt, cough, cough). But it's nowhere near the expectation of a Nexus device.

    On a Nexus phone, the delay to add carrier special sauce should be measured in days, not months.

    This is why Verizon and Sprint can't have nice things any more.
    Ziptied likes this.
  14. Thread Author  Thread Author    #14  
    evperry's Avatar

    Posts
    335 Posts
    Global Posts
    562 Global Posts

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Well then if that's the case then I am fine with T-Mobile and at&t.... gold riddance CDMA

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
  15. #15  

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Apple does go through the carriers. They just give it to them early, and have a huge team of people working on the updates. They hold everyones update until all of the carriers have approved it so they can release it all at once.
    LG Nexus 5 / Galaxy S5 // T-Mobile / AT&T
  16. Thread Author  Thread Author    #16  
    evperry's Avatar

    Posts
    335 Posts
    Global Posts
    562 Global Posts

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Well then Google should do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Martonik View Post
    Apple does go through the carriers. They just give it to them early, and have a huge team of people working on the updates. They hold everyones update until all of the carriers have approved it so they can release it all at once.


    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
  17. #17  

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Quote Originally Posted by evperry View Post
    Well then Google should do the same.
    When Google starts selling 10's of millions of Nexus devices every year, they will .
    LG Nexus 5 / Galaxy S5 // T-Mobile / AT&T
    Thanked by:
    Ry 
  18. #18  
    Ziptied's Avatar
    Your Resident Googler

    Posts
    536 Posts
    Global Posts
    768 Global Posts
    ROM
    Stock

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Martonik View Post
    When Google starts selling 10's of millions of Nexus devices every year, they will .
    Negative. That's not the plan for the Nexus line of phones, at all.
    Google it.
  19. Thread Author  Thread Author    #19  
    evperry's Avatar

    Posts
    335 Posts
    Global Posts
    562 Global Posts

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Oddly enough I am completely ok with that. Keep it small.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziptied View Post
    Negative. That's not the plan for the Nexus line of phones, at all.


    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
  20. #20  

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Carriers pay Apple for the privilege of selling the iPhone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziptied View Post
    Negative. That's not the plan for the Nexus line of phones, at all.

    Hence the
  21. #21  
    natehoy's Avatar

    Posts
    1,634 Posts
    ROM
    Stock

    Default Re: If Apple can update without carrier interference?

    Quote Originally Posted by evperry View Post
    Well then Google should do the same.





    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
    No. No. A thousand times no. If you want your updates delayed for months for carrier convenience, buy anything but a nexus. I want my code fresh and warm, still bleeding from the last code review. I want fast features, bugs and all.

    If you want a Nexus without the risk, wait a week to load the latest. It's pretty safe. But dear FSM, don't make me wait six freaking months to get the latest code just because there are some people who don't know what a nexus device is.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    Phones: BB 8820 -> BB 8310 -> HTC Thunderbolt -> LG Optimus G Pro -> Moto X

Similar Threads

  1. Cool way to see if you can live without LTE
    By Mac58 in forum Google Nexus 4
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 11-03-2012, 08:52 PM
  2. Can unlocked phone without carrier get OS update?
    By B. Diddy in forum Other Sony Android Phones
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-08-2012, 01:54 PM
  3. How can i tell if my phone updated?
    By micwag2 in forum Verizon HTC Thunderbolt
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-14-2011, 04:08 PM
  4. Can I install the OTA GingerBread update without bricking?
    By WizLateefUh in forum LG Optimus S Rooting, ROMs, and Hacks
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-21-2011, 02:45 PM
  5. If rooted, can we install the HTC update?
    By sveilien in forum HTC EVO 4G Rooting, ROMs, and Hacks
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-28-2010, 03:44 PM

Posting Permissions