07-01-2013 06:18 PM
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  1. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    The other doesn't make the OS update take any longer either. It's adding Touchwiz on top of it that takes the time. CM updates aren't released the day of an Android OS update either, and in fact actual releases (not the Alpha or Beta) are released substantially after Google releases new versions. I say that to make the point that being a closed source modification vs. an open source modification does not make much difference here.

    Second, this is also completely beside the point. Are pure Froyo or pure Gingerbread phones not Android phones? What about when Google decides to stop supporting an old Nexus device and it stops getting the update - does that phone then disqualify from being an Android phone? I don't think classifying whether a phone is an Android phone based on the frequency or length of time it takes to update makes sense.


    There you go again. Who said those aren't bad? Why are you harping on that after I agreed with you on this? Is it your contention that being 'bad' makes something not Android? So when a previous version of Android on Nexus phones was missing the month of December - surely a bad thing - it suddenly turned those Nexus devices into non-Android phones?


    So now you think any phone with removable storage is not an Android device? Well, I guess there goes the Nexus One.
    You're clearly trying to put words in my mouth. But thanks for agreeing that adding Touchwiz or Sense does in fact increase the time it takes to push out updates. Also, not so sure CM is a great comparison, since they aren't a multi million/billion dollar company. Give them the same man power that Samsung has to get CM working great on ONE device and see how long it takes.

    The reality is that CM might have 2-3 people working on any one specific device, so of course it takes a while to get things to at least RC stage. Most devices probably only have one maintainer.

    Something that I didn't touch on that was stated by someone else here, is that Vic Gundotra specifically referred to the S3 as being Android-based. This was not a mistake and his words were surely chosen carefully. That fact should not be lost on anyone. AOSP and Nexus devices are Android as Google intends it to be. They have both evolved into what they are today. As the evolution continues so will hardware requirements (bringing up the Nexus One doesn't matter, it's old and outdated, and the hardware has severe limitations when it comes to running the newest versions of Android. Specifically cache partitions).

    So yeah, if you want an Android phone that will give you the experience that Google wants you to have then get a Nexus. The S3 or Note 2 will give you the experience Samsung wants you to have. And honestly, there's nothing wrong with that, either. Different strokes for different folks.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Aquila and JamesTBurns like this.
    02-19-2013 03:40 AM
  2. Mellimel22's Avatar
    wow that's pretty harsh in comparing an n4 to a 380 round over a desert eagle running something like a 44 magnum.

    i would say both are the same 'caliber' as far as performance... they are pretty much at the top of class... both 10mm.

    but one's housed in a plastic glock... and the other in a ss colt delta and each gun has a few differences but caliberwise the same.

    which is perfect? comes down to who prefers the glocks over colts.

    or at least pick a couple of rounds that are pretty close to each other... 40cal vs 357sig?
    Haha I was bout to say my sprint Gnex is like a 9 with a extend clip (extended battery) Lol but good comparison bro :beer:

    Sent from my Sprint Galaxy Nexus rockin 4.2.2 using Tapatalk 2
    02-19-2013 08:19 AM
  3. Slender Troll's Avatar
    I think this is relevant:



    Sent from my Nexus 4/Nexus 7
    02-19-2013 08:50 AM
  4. yfan's Avatar
    You're clearly trying to put words in my mouth.
    Yes, I suppose so, insofar as quoting what you say can be considered "putting words in your mouth." You're clearly unwilling to defend what you say when it falls apart to critical questioning.

    But thanks for agreeing that adding Touchwiz or Sense does in fact increase the time it takes to push out updates. Also, not so sure CM is a great comparison, since they aren't a multi million/billion dollar company. Give them the same man power that Samsung has to get CM working great on ONE device and see how long it takes.
    What does the monetary value or manpower of a software maker have to do with whether what they make is Android or not? The whole debate we are having is whether something is Android. One of your arguments was that since Touchwiz/Sense etc. impede the speed of direct Android updates, they cannot be considered Android. I simply pointed out that under that line of reasoning, neither can CM.

    Something that I didn't touch on that was stated by someone else here, is that Vic Gundotra specifically referred to the S3 as being Android-based. This was not a mistake and his words were surely chosen carefully.
    So carefully, in fact, that neither the poster who pointed this out first nor you are willing to provide the actual quote in context. I also responded to that post. Did you happen to read it? I asked them to provide context, and that I doubted he said it in the context of distinguishing those devices from stock Android devices (like you said, it doesn't have to be a Nexus device or made by Google in order for it to be considered Android by you, just stock). Anyway, I am still waiting for the actual quote in context.

    In addition, I also pointed out the GS3 is listed here on Android Central Forums under 'Android phones.'

    So yeah, if you want an Android phone that will give you the experience that Google wants you to have then get a Nexus. The S3 or Note 2 will give you the experience Samsung wants you to have. And honestly, there's nothing wrong with that, either. Different strokes for different folks.
    Well thank you. As I said, I have only owned Nexus phones for the past few years. I like pure Android devices. No one is arguing that Samsung or HTC doesn't modify the AOSP version of Android. But the fact is so does CM, and a whole host of other ROM developers, and I don't believe those modifications disqualify those phones from being Android phones.
    friendscatdied likes this.
    02-19-2013 09:31 AM
  5. The Hustleman's Avatar
    I'd say the nexus 4 is like a 9mm,sub compact and the note 2 is a s&w 500 magnum

    My galaxy S 3 is the. 50AE desert eagle.

    Iphone 5 is a. 22lr



    sent from the best smart phone (not phablet) on the worst network- the galaxy S III unfortunately on T-Mobile
    02-19-2013 09:54 AM
  6. Paul627g's Avatar
    Just for the sake of those who maybe sensitive to guns and the topic of weapons in general can we leave the comparison of that topic(s) to the smartphone discussion in here on the sidelines.

    Thanks all.
    02-19-2013 10:06 AM
  7. The Hustleman's Avatar
    Just for the sake of those who maybe sensitive to guns and the topic of weapons in general can we leave the comparison of that topic(s) to the smartphone discussion in here on the sidelines.

    Thanks all.
    Will do

    sent from the best smart phone (not phablet) on the worst network- the galaxy S III unfortunately on T-Mobile
    llamainmypocket likes this.
    02-19-2013 12:11 PM
  8. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Yes, I suppose so, insofar as quoting what you say can be considered "putting words in your mouth." You're clearly unwilling to defend what you say when it falls apart to critical questioning.


    What does the monetary value or manpower of a software maker have to do with whether what they make is Android or not? The whole debate we are having is whether something is Android. One of your arguments was that since Touchwiz/Sense etc. impede the speed of direct Android updates, they cannot be considered Android. I simply pointed out that under that line of reasoning, neither can CM.


    So carefully, in fact, that neither the poster who pointed this out first nor you are willing to provide the actual quote in context. I also responded to that post. Did you happen to read it? I asked them to provide context, and that I doubted he said it in the context of distinguishing those devices from stock Android devices (like you said, it doesn't have to be a Nexus device or made by Google in order for it to be considered Android by you, just stock). Anyway, I am still waiting for the actual quote in context.

    In addition, I also pointed out the GS3 is listed here on Android Central Forums under 'Android phones.'


    Well thank you. As I said, I have only owned Nexus phones for the past few years. I like pure Android devices. No one is arguing that Samsung or HTC doesn't modify the AOSP version of Android. But the fact is so does CM, and a whole host of other ROM developers, and I don't believe those modifications disqualify those phones from being Android phones.
    It was in response to a question about which phone he used to take a picture that he posted on Google+. It wasn't in comparison to any other device. AC wrote an article or two about this topic.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    02-19-2013 08:18 PM
  9. omniusovermind's Avatar
    IMO the sense 5 UI with Android on the HTC one effectively closed this topic. Nexus phones are going to need to heavily impress me with a stock Android experience to match this.
    02-19-2013 09:38 PM
  10. pespule's Avatar
    android, yes. phone, no.
    02-19-2013 10:22 PM
  11. msavic6's Avatar
    IMO the sense 5 UI with Android on the HTC one effectively closed this topic. Nexus phones are going to need to heavily impress me with a stock Android experience to match this.
    I was more impressed with the build quality then HTC sense, Although battery size disappointed, it will probably be adequate but won't amaze in terms of battery life. Hoping more android devices feature premium build quality using quality materials. I can put up with plastic but the aluminum unibody is very appealing, reminds me of the nexus one, that phone was a tank, you could feel it in the weight.

    Sent from my MZ604 using Tapatalk HD
    02-19-2013 11:31 PM
  12. Tomi Golob's Avatar
    Nope, UI changes that Touchwiz makes can also be removed, with the right technical expertise. In addition, the phones can be rooted and have the OS completely removed in favor of another Android OS (such as CM, which is also not "stock" Android). This is like trying to say a person isn't the same person because their clothes are on too tightly or because they got a new tattoo - or, if you prefer, an organ transplant. Android isn't just a plain operating system - it is *also* a base. One of the reasons we love Android as opposed to iOS is that Google allows the openness and ability for both developers and manufacturers to modify it, as opposed to Apple's way of controlling every step of the process. That openness is an essential component of what makes Android, Android.

    I get the idea that stock Android is different from the modified versions, but to say that only it is Android is contrary to the very nature of Android. And I say that as someone who has owned the Nexus S, the Galaxy Nexus (GSM) and now proudly own the Nexus 4. Even before that I rooted my phones to put CM on it so I would get as close to stock Android as possible. I love stock Android. But that doesn't mean that these other phones aren't Android phones.

    Also this might be a distinction without a difference but for this thread. I'm of the mind that those other phones are definitely in the running when considering what is the best Android phones, and I would bet the OP had in mind what you would call both Android and "Android-based" phones.
    What in the holy **** are you talking about... Touchwiz ROMs have totally different frameworks. Hence it is a different Android version,it is not a skin
    07-01-2013 06:14 PM
  13. Tomi Golob's Avatar
    It was in response to a question about which phone he used to take a picture that he posted on Google+. It wasn't in comparison to any other device. AC wrote an article or two about this topic.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Why do you talk to this guy...he talks as if he doesn't know what is AOSP and how OEM ROMs are made...ignore him
    07-01-2013 06:18 PM
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