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  1. #151  
    JeffDenver's Avatar
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    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    This question is not answered by this:
    The question was disingenuous.

    His implication is that if I do not know the exact dollar amount, that must mean that an SD slot is expensive to add. Do you agree with his reasoning?
  2. #152  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    I'm sure if implemented early in the design process adding a SD slot would have been possible. BUt the fact of the matter is they designed this device to be cloud centric and purposely left it out. And that works out perfectly for me. So it seems they have designed this phone for me and not for you. In that regard, I am glad they did not design it with an SD card which might have made even more demand for this phone and clogged this forum with SD card centric thread topics which I do not care to read at all.

    If I were you, I would sell this phone and buy a phone that seems to have been more designed for SD cards. Unless of course you prefer to be masochistic to yourself and take everyone else for the ride.
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  3. #153  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    It's like arguing with a box of rocks......
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  4. #154  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post
    Adding SD is clearly a very expensive process. That is why all the cheapest Android phones have SD...because it is a very expensive technology to add to a phone.
    Expense is meaningless in that regard. Sure they can add SD inexpensively. The thing is, they don't want to. The operating system will run smoother reading from memory that is internal, rather than reading external memory from a separate drive. They don't have to worry about building the drive into the internals of the phone and then provide access to it. Same goes for removable batteries. They don't want a removable cover on the phone that has to slide or snap on and be color matched. The phone will look sleeker without it. Runs super smooth, looks super smooth. It is marketing. Good sales means they continue the trend. Bad sales means they abandon it. I'm thinking the customer base wants the sleeky smooth phone and the trend continues, at least for the higher end phones.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
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  5. #155  
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    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post
    The question was disingenuous.

    His implication is that if I do not know the exact dollar amount, that must mean that an SD slot is expensive to add. Do you agree with his reasoning?
    On that point you're right, but you guys are talking about two different things. One is adding it like a module on existing design, the other is including it in the initial design. The latter is very cheap, your point I think, while the former is extremely expensive.

    IIRC the price difference between a 32GB chip and a 16 is around $12. I have no idea what the size difference is or how much spare room there is inside the N4 for it.
  6. #156  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post
    Adding SD is clearly a very expensive process. That is why all the cheapest Android phones have SD...because it is a very expensive technology to add to a phone.
    I'm sorry, but, for the third time, do you know the cost of adding a higher storage component to the Nexus 4?

    If you do not, stop talking. Thanks.

    Because you claimed how inexpensive it would have been for Google to commission LG to create a Nexus 4 with a higher capacity, when that is purely speculation and unfounded.

    Buddy, you bought the wrong device and it's time you get past that haha.

    You have 16GB of storage, time to face reality that it isn't changing. You're clueless, bud.
  7. #157  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    If Google wants the Nexus 4 to be cloud centric, do we even need a 16 GB model? An 8 GB model would be sufficient to utilize the cloud.

    The Nexus 4 is based on the LG Optimus G, which has a micro SD card slot. It came out before the Nexus 4, so if Google wanted a micro SD card slot on the Nexus 4, they could have added one.


    Quote Originally Posted by minnemike View Post
    I'm sure if implemented early in the design process adding a SD slot would have been possible. BUt the fact of the matter is they designed this device to be cloud centric and purposely left it out. And that works out perfectly for me. So it seems they have designed this phone for me and not for you. In that regard, I am glad they did not design it with an SD card which might have made even more demand for this phone and clogged this forum with SD card centric thread topics which I do not care to read at all.

    If I were you, I would sell this phone and buy a phone that seems to have been more designed for SD cards. Unless of course you prefer to be masochistic to yourself and take everyone else for the ride.
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  8. #158  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    We can certainly estimate the cost of a Nexus 4 with greater storage by looking at the LG Optimus G, the phone the Nexus 4 is based on.

    The E970 is the LG Optimus G model for AT&T. It costs $100 more than the Nexus 4 (16 GB model). That extra money gets you a micro SD cards slot for up to 64 GB of additional storage. Does that mean that a micro SD slot costs $100? No, because the E970 also has LTE on AT&T bands and LG's UI skin (which includes QSlide and QuickMemo) on top of Android. Those certainly are not free. Furthermore, AT&T loves to mark up prices to entice people to buy phones on a contract subsidy.

    So, while we don't know the exact cost, we can estimate that a hypothetical Nexus 4 with a micro SD card slot would cost less than $100 extra.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheLibertarian View Post
    I'm sorry, but, for the third time, do you know the cost of adding a higher storage component to the Nexus 4?

    If you do not, stop talking. Thanks.

    Because you claimed how inexpensive it would have been for Google to commission LG to create a Nexus 4 with a higher capacity, when that is purely speculation and unfounded.

    Buddy, you bought the wrong device and it's time you get past that haha.

    You have 16GB of storage, time to face reality that it isn't changing. You're clueless, bud.
  9. #159  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captainbob767 View Post
    I'm betting he doesn't have a clue....
    Well, the Nexus 4 comes in two models. The 8 GB and 16 GB models cost $299 and $349, respectively. That's $50 for the extra 8 GB. We could estimate an extra 16 GB to cost $100. So maybe a 32 GB Nexus 4 would cost $449.
  10. #160  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    Well, the Nexus 4 comes in two models. The 8 GB and 16 GB models cost $299 and $349, respectively. That's $50 for the extra 8 GB. We could estimate an extra 16 GB to cost $100. So maybe a 32 GB Nexus 4 would cost $449.
    I guess the next question to ask would be, " How many Nexus 4 users have filled up their 16 GB phones and need more memory?". I am betting it would be a pretty small percentage.
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  11. #161  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    Yeah the paradigm here is extremely subjective and should have ymmv written after just about every comment. My order of ideal solutions at this point is massive on device storage, at least 10-20 times what they include now, followed by much more reasonable access to cloud services, followed by external storage options.

    My main point in this thread is that the preferences of people are of course going to be different, but being offended because a manufacturer made a decision is just outright wrong. They're not doing anything to you, they're making computers. Buy whichever one you want and make a point of not buying the ones that you don't want. Voting with dollars is important, so is educating your connections so they can do likewise.
    I would agree that voting with your dollars is important. The thing is, sometimes the candidate you want to vote for isn't in the race. As of right now, you can't buy a 32 GB Nexus 4. So, let's say people buy a 32 GB HTC One instead. It could mean people want more storage, but it could also mean people want Sense UI instead of stock Android. This "vote" with dollars is open to interpretation.

    What people really want is a way to send feedback to Google on what should be included in future Nexus devices. Is there an official way to do this?

    I am not aware of any method, so perhaps people should click on the "Send feedback" option from any app developed by Google (e.g. YouTube, Gmail, Chrome, etc.) and just tell them what you want. It's not elegant, but at least it's something. Hopefully someone at Google will forward all the feedback to the Nexus product team.

    The people on this forum may disagree on many different issues, but I would say most (if not all) of them support the Nexus program and would like to see it get bigger and better in the future.
    Darth Spock likes this.
  12. #162  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    I would agree that voting with your dollars is important. The thing is, sometimes the candidate you want to vote for isn't in the race. As of right now, you can't buy a 32 GB Nexus 4. So, let's say people buy a 32 GB HTC One instead. It could mean people want more storage, but it could also mean people want Sense UI instead of stock Android. This "vote" with dollars is open to interpretation.

    What people really want is a way to send feedback to Google on what should be included in future Nexus devices. Is there an official way to do this?

    I am not aware of any method, so perhaps people should click on the "Send feedback" option from any app developed by Google (e.g. YouTube, Gmail, Chrome, etc.) and just tell them what you want. It's not elegant, but at least it's something. Hopefully someone at Google will forward all the feedback to the Nexus product team.

    The people on this forum may disagree on many different issues, but I would say most (if not all) of them support the Nexus program and would like to see it get bigger and better in the future.
    That's fine if this is what consumers want. But it isn't what I want. I love using the cloud. I would rather stream than have music and video content on my phone. I like that I only paid $350 for an unlocked device off contract. I would rather they hereto the cost down so I can inexpensively upgrade to the latest Nexus device every year and nor worth about contracts or when my upgrade is due.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using AC Forums mobile app
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  13. #163  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    We can certainly estimate the cost of a Nexus 4 with greater storage by looking at the LG Optimus G, the phone the Nexus 4 is based on.

    The E970 is the LG Optimus G model for AT&T. It costs $100 more than the Nexus 4 (16 GB model). That extra money gets you a micro SD cards slot for up to 64 GB of additional storage. Does that mean that a micro SD slot costs $100? No, because the E970 also has LTE on AT&T bands and LG's UI skin (which includes QSlide and QuickMemo) on top of Android. Those certainly are not free. Furthermore, AT&T loves to mark up prices to entice people to buy phones on a contract subsidy.

    So, while we don't know the exact cost, we can estimate that a hypothetical Nexus 4 with a micro SD card slot would cost less than $100 extra.
    Estimations and speculations are not specific, verified costs.

    It may cost $1 to adjust the Nexus 4 assembly line to integrate a higher capacity storage component, or it may cost $1000; the point is simply that no one ones, and certainly Jeff Denver doesn't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post
    The question was disingenuous.

    His implication is that if I do not know the exact dollar amount, that must mean that an SD slot is expensive to add. Do you agree with his reasoning?
    No, that is not correct.

    For the fourth time, do you, or do you not, have an idea what it would cost Google to commission LG to manufacture a Nexus 4 with a higher capacity storage component?

    Stop dodging, stop changing the subject. I wish you were interested in having mildly intelligent discussions, though your post history tells me you are not.
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  14. #164  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkhmwilliams View Post
    That's fine if this is what consumers want. But it isn't what I want. I love using the cloud. I would rather stream than have music and video content on my phone. I like that I only paid $350 for an unlocked device off contract. I would rather they hereto the cost down so I can inexpensively upgrade to the latest Nexus device every year and nor worth about contracts or when my upgrade is due.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using AC Forums mobile app
    You make excellent points. Do you own a 16 GB Nexus 4? You mentioned the $350 price, so I am assuming that you own that model.

    Since you say that you love using the cloud, you should be happy with either 8 GB or 16 GB. Neither will affect your ability to use the cloud. Also, the $299 price tag for the 8 GB model is cheaper, making it even easier for you to upgrade every year, which is what you want. Therefore, should Google eliminate the 16 GB model?

    I would say no. Google should keep the 16 GB model, even for users who love using the cloud. It's your money, and you can buy what you want. I would give you that choice. What if you wanted a 4 GB Nexus 4? That's fine. In fact, I would support your decision. In the same fashion, I would support people who wanted 32 GB, 64 GB, or even more.

    Do you feel that if Google released another Nexus 4 with more storage, it would adversely affect you in some way? What issues do you predict will arise? Perhaps you have noticed something that I have not, and I would like to know what that is.
  15. #165  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLibertarian View Post
    Estimations and speculations are not specific, verified costs.

    It may cost $1 to adjust the Nexus 4 assembly line to integrate a higher capacity storage component, or it may cost $1000; the point is simply that no one ones, and certainly Jeff Denver doesn't know.
    I would even say that no one on this forum knows the true cost unless they work for Google or LG. Even so, the figures are probably trade secrets. I am only using publicly available data on products that do exist. If someone could provide more accurate numbers, I would be open to them.

    Just to be clear, phone pricing in general is a mixed-up affair. The 16 GB Nexus 4 costs $350 from the Play Store. That same Nexus 4 costs $428 if you buy it full-price from T-Mobile USA. If you live outside the US, you will probably be paying even more.

    The bigger issue seems to be whether a device like a 32 GB Nexus 4 should even exist in the first place. I say put it up for sale and let the market decide. If people want it, let them pay for it.
    TheLibertarian likes this.
  16. #166  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captainbob767 View Post
    I guess the next question to ask would be, " How many Nexus 4 users have filled up their 16 GB phones and need more memory?". I am betting it would be a pretty small percentage.
    That is a good question. How do we proceed to answer it?

    Perhaps we need a good survey app. We would need an app to detect whether the user is holding a 16 GB Nexus 4. The user could then answer yes or no to the question of whether they need more memory. I'm sure there are survey apps, but I don't know if any can detect what type of phone you're using.
  17. #167  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    You make excellent points. Do you own a 16 GB Nexus 4? You mentioned the $350 price, so I am assuming that you own that model.

    Since you say that you love using the cloud, you should be happy with either 8 GB or 16 GB. Neither will affect your ability to use the cloud. Also, the $299 price tag for the 8 GB model is cheaper, making it even easier for you to upgrade every year, which is what you want. Therefore, should Google eliminate the 16 GB model?

    I would say no. Google should keep the 16 GB model, even for users who love using the cloud. It's your money, and you can buy what you want. I would give you that choice. What if you wanted a 4 GB Nexus 4? That's fine. In fact, I would support your decision. In the same fashion, I would support people who wanted 32 GB, 64 GB, or even more.

    Do you feel that if Google released another Nexus 4 with more storage, it would adversely affect you in some way? What issues do you predict will arise? Perhaps you have noticed something that I have not, and I would like to know what that is.
    Yes, I do own the 16 gigabyte version. And I went with that version because I wasn't certain if 8 gigabytes would be enough. As it stands, it would have been. But I wanted to be on the safe side. I do understand that you want more choices. I'm certain most consumers would like more choices. However increasing the amount of internal storage in the Nexus line seems to go against the company's overall philosophy. It seems to me that they are trying to promote their cloud storage. Increasing the amount of internal storage capacity just isn't in line with their overall philosophy. I would also guess that they are trying to keep the cost of the Nexus devices down. Increasing internal storage goes against that as well. If someone wants more storage options, there seems to be many other Android devices they can choose from.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using AC Forums mobile app
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  18. #168  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkhmwilliams View Post
    Yes I do own the 16 gigabyte version. And I went with that version because I wasn't certain if 8 gigabyte would be enough. As it stands, it would have been. But I wanted to be on the safe side. I do understand that you want more choices. I'm certain most consumers would like more choices. However increasing the amount of internal storage and the Nexus line things to go against the company's overall philosophy. It seems to me that they are trying to promote their cloud storage. Increasing the amount of internal storage capacity just isn't in line with their overall philosophy. I would also gas that they are trying to keep the cost of the Nexus devices down. Increasing internal storage go to get that as well. If someone wants more storage options. There seems to be many other Android devices they can choose from.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using AC Forums mobile app
    It is obvious to me that they are selling quite a few Nexus 4s, so people must be pretty happy with the choices they are offered. Price point, speed, always getting updates to the OS, etc.etc..... Don't see many people lamenting the lack of a 32Gb model.
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  19. #169  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Did anyone go to TechEd? Nah me either but a friend did and apparently CLOUD was the keyword if you get what I'm saying. If you don't, everything is going to be in the cloud it's the future of computing and I'm afraid like most technology, you will just have to accept it.

    I mean the cloud is a terrible idea, storing things in a location where they are accessible anywhere in the world with internet connection and the backups are created automatically for you...

    The cloud is the answer to all the people who complain that their phone has crashed and all their precious pictures that they never backed up have been deleted, or the phone has been lost/stolen?

    I have the 8GB model and although I was apprehensive, I'm happy. I have 10,000 songs on Google Music to stream whenever I want. My top 100 are stored physically on the device so if I'm without an internet connection, I do have at least access to them and all my pictures get stored in the Box. I take thousands of pictures and screengrabs of my favourite text messages but the only time I look through them is when I'm at a PC anyway. With the Box, as long as I have an internet connection I can look at them on my phone too so there's no real difference between it being stored locally.

    I appreciate that this isn't great for everyone but why not buy a tablet if you enjoy video that much? Surely the next complaint will be that the screen size isn't big enough for viewing video on? And an iPod for your music? If you had 32GB of storage, how much of that could you possibly get through before your battery goes flat? 4 hours of video (I think being generous, not sure)? 5 hours of music? My iPod 120GB classic stores more music than I could possibly have in a lifetime and the battery lasts 24 hours. Why? Because that device was designed specifically to do that.

    I would assume music lovers to own an iPod, camera enthusiasts to own a DSLR and video lovers to own a tablet. The N4 does everything and it does everything well, but we can't expect it to store everything and as mentioned, we'd only forget to back it up anyway.
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  20. #170  
    JeffDenver's Avatar
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    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by minnemike View Post
    If I were you, I would sell this phone and buy a phone that seems to have been more designed for SD cards.
    Thats a great idea.

    Please list for me the top 3 devices that you would recommend that have vanilla android, an SD card, and similar or better specs. I'll go buy one today.
  21. #171  
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    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    On that point you're right, but you guys are talking about two different things. One is adding it like a module on existing design, the other is including it in the initial design.
    Google could have done either. Nothing was stopping them from adding it in the initial design too. It is not like SD was some magic new technology that just sprung onto the market. A previous Nexus already had it and it worked just fine.
  22. #172  
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    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captainbob767 View Post
    I guess the next question to ask would be, " How many Nexus 4 users have filled up their 16 GB phones and need more memory?". I am betting it would be a pretty small percentage.
    I am betting that would only be because they forced themselves to delete stuff that they would not otherwise have deleted if they had the space.

    I have not used up my 16 gigs either. That does not mean I do not want or need more space. It means I was forced to delete stuff to keep using the phone.
  23. #173  
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    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emma Challis View Post
    I mean the cloud is a terrible idea, storing things in a location where they are accessible anywhere in the world with internet connection and the backups are created automatically for you...
    Which would be awesome if the cloud were 100% reliable. But it's not. And if the cloud is not there, you will be SoL. Also: Local storage does not prevent me from using the cloud. With local storage, I get both. My phone does not become a useless brick if I don't have internet access.
  24. #174  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post
    Google could have done either. Nothing was stopping them from adding it in the initial design too. It is not like SD was some magic new technology that just sprung onto the market. A previous Nexus already had it and it worked just fine.
    But they didn't want to design it that way. We have the two choices that are given to us 8 and 16 gigabytes. You can either choose one or choose neither. Remember, this is someone else's vision. We aren't creating anything. We are consumers, we buy. If we don't like it, then we don't buy it. I don't understand this conversation. Some are acting as though the Nexus 4 is defective. It is what it is. 8, 16 or no Nexus 4. They're is no SD card slot so you better get used to cloud storage and streaming media. Deal.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using AC Forums mobile app
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  25. #175  

    Default Re: 16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkhmwilliams View Post
    But they didn't want to design it that way. We have the two choices that are given to us 8 and 16 gigabytes. You can either choose one or choose neither. Remember, this is someone else's vision. We aren't creating anything.
    That's part of the problem. If the people who think the Google design was "defective" would put their money where their mouth is, and CREATE their dream device and price it accordingly, then the market could vote with their dollars. But that would require cojones.
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