Has anyone noticed if Google acknowledges plethora of 4.3 bugs/issues???

[Scott7217]

When you paint, for instance, the first thing you do isn't slap paint on whatever's there. You clean the surface, possibly do some sanding on it, clean that off, apply primer, and then and only then do you put paint on it. That's simply a best-practices approach.

When you paint, the first thing you do is read the manufacturer's instructions printed on the side of the can. That will tell you what you need to know, including (but not limited to) surface preparation.

I don't think people would have a problem doing a factory reset before a system update if LG or Google instructed them to do so. What we need to do is find the appropriate documentation that would be equivalent to the instructions printed on the side of a paint can. It would probably be something that was included in the box with the Nexus 4. If you can show people where the instructions are, they can't complain if they don't follow the directions.

 

[Captainbob767]

When you paint, the first thing you do is read the manufacturer's instructions printed on the side of the can. That will tell you what you need to know, including (but not limited to) surface preparation.

I don't think people would have a problem doing a factory reset before a system update if LG or Google instructed them to do so. What we need to do is find the appropriate documentation that would be equivalent to the instructions printed on the side of a paint can. It would probably be something that was included in the box with the Nexus 4. If you can show people where the instructions are, they can't complain if they don't follow the directions.

Some people wouldn't read it if it was carved on the side of their car. Look at all the people on this forum who totally ignore the many posts about doing a reset if they have trouble after the update, and still would rather complain about this and that, instead of trying a reset first.

 

[gollum18]

One has to wonder if they have fixed the "no ad hoc in WiFi settings issue". It was starred over 5000 times on Google code and has been an issue since froyo. But I'm guessing Google didn't, and they are still allowing the carriers to push them around.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Scott7217]

Some people wouldn't read it if it was carved on the side of the car. Look at all the people on this forum who totally ignore the many posts about doing a reset if they have trouble after the update, and still would rather complain about this and that, instead of trying a reset first.

That's certainly a possibility. However, it's one thing to ignore a forum post. It's completely different if you ignore a printed manual.

Think of it this way. If you tried to sue LG or Google in court over a failed system update, what holds more weight, a forum post or an official document included with every Nexus 4? I would think an official document would clear LG and Google and place the blame squarely on the user who neglected to follow the instructions.

Are there any lawyers reading this post? Maybe a legal expert could chime in on this issue.

 

[fernandezhjr]

That's certainly a possibility. However, it's one thing to ignore a forum post. It's completely different if you ignore a printed manual.

Think of it this way. If you tried to sue LG or Google in court over a failed system update, what holds more weight, a forum post or an official document included with every Nexus 4? I would think an official document would clear LG and Google and place the blame squarely on the user who neglected to follow the instructions.

Are there any lawyers reading this post? Maybe a legal expert could chime in on this issue.

I don't think it will ever come to that. Google knows that users would prefer to try and keep data first. This is why they push out otas that are a form of dirty flashing and offer factory images for those that prefer to do a clean install. When there are issues with ota, that is when the factory reset comes into play. As long as a clean install works as it should, Google can always blame a bad ota flash on data still on the phone. Then all they have to do is recommend a factory reset. It actually works better for them this way and they don't have to hear all the whining of having to initially wipe data. Lord forbid everyone should lose their high score on Candy Crush.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Captainbob767]

That's certainly a possibility. However, it's one thing to ignore a forum post. It's completely different if you ignore a printed manual.

Think of it this way. If you tried to sue LG or Google in court over a failed system update, what holds more weight, a forum post or an official document included with every Nexus 4? I would think an official document would clear LG and Google and place the blame squarely on the user who neglected to follow the instructions.

Are there any lawyers reading this post? Maybe a legal expert could chime in on this issue.

I just retired from a 40 year career teaching a highly technical subject to engineers. Please, don't tell me that most people read manuals or instructions rather than just plowing ahead....Not buying that for a second.

 

[anon(847090)]

No issues what so ever. dont understand what people are talking about!!

 

[Scott7217]

I don't think it will ever come to that. Google knows that users would prefer to try and keep data first. This is why they push out otas that are a form of dirty flashing and offer factory images for those that prefer to do a clean install.

That's a good point, and I'm glad you brought that up.

I think Google should put a simple warning message before the user can proceed with the update. The warning message will tell users that a factory reset is highly recommended before proceeding and that an update without a factory reset may lead to performance issues, including data loss. Of course, users are free to ignore the warning, but they do so at their own risk.

Does that sound reasonable to you?

 

[Scott7217]

I just retired from a 40 year career teaching a highly technical subject to engineers. Please, don't tell me that most people read manuals or instructions rather than just plowing ahead....Not buying that for a second.

Perhaps I am blessed to have teachers like you who stress the importance of reading the instructions first. I feel that that is one quality of a good teacher.

People can ignore printed instructions if they choose to do so. I'm not disputing that. However, can we agree that if users ignore the official documentation from LG and Google included with the Nexus 4, they only have themselves to blame if things don't work?

 

[fernandezhjr]

That's a good point, and I'm glad you brought that up.

I think Google should put a simple warning message before the user can proceed with the update. The warning message will tell users that a factory reset is highly recommended before proceeding and that an update without a factory reset may lead to performance issues, including data loss. Of course, users are free to ignore the warning, but they do so at their own risk.

Does that sound reasonable to you?

To be honest, I don't understand why Google doesn't offer a backup option like Apple does with iTunes. But, yes, something like that would work. I say two buttons that the user chooses from. One does a hard reset, then installs the update while warning of complete data loss. The other installs dirty while warning that there is greater potential for bugs and glitches.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Scott7217]

To be honest, I don't understand why Google doesn't offer a backup option like Apple does with iTunes. But, yes, something like that would work. I say two buttons that the user chooses from. One does a hard reset, then installs the update while warning of complete data loss. The other installs dirty while warning that there is greater potential for bugs and glitches.

Your solution is more elegant than mine. I'm glad we agree that a warning would be beneficial.

I would like to offer a possible explanation to why some people think they should be able to update without a factory reset. I would guess it's a holdover from the PC. For example, sometimes Microsoft pushes a Windows Update to my computer. I just update it, reboot, and continue using my computer like I normally would. However, I don't always have to reformat my entire hard drive and reinstall programs for each and every system update, especially the minor ones. I can certainly do that if I want to, but I'm not obligated to do so.

People need to realize that Android is not like Windows. They also need to remember than PCs have been around for a lot longer than smartphones. Maybe there will be a time when you don't need to do a factory reset on your phone, but we're not there yet. For now, it would be best for Google to remind users to do a factory reset before doing a system update.

 

[Aquila]

Your solution is more elegant than mine. I'm glad we agree that a warning would be beneficial.

I would like to offer a possible explanation to why some people think they should be able to update without a factory reset. I would guess it's a holdover from the PC. For example, sometimes Microsoft pushes a Windows Update to my computer. I just update it, reboot, and continue using my computer like I normally would. However, I don't always have to reformat my entire hard drive and reinstall programs for each and every system update, especially the minor ones. I can certainly do that if I want to, but I'm not obligated to do so.

People need to realize that Android is not like Windows. They also need to remember than PCs have been around for a lot longer than smartphones. Maybe there will be a time when you don't need to do a factory reset on your phone, but we're not there yet. For now, it would be best for Google to remind users to do a factory reset before doing a system update.

For the majority of users, from what I can tell, that is basically the process on Android. Hit "install", it reboots, and short time later you're running around on your phone, without having wiped anything. The OTA is designed to work in that fashion and tested as such. I remember vividly Windows forums advising people to roll back service pack updates, etc. because of buggy features, apps, drivers, etc. (especially surrounding iTunes for some reason) and probably for the some reasons. Something got hardcoded (as opposed to a dynamic reference) to a reference point in the code, that when slightly changed causes hiccups.

 

[fernandezhjr]

This particular update has been more damning for Google due to the security changes. Of course they had to have known the issues it would cause with so many apps, in turn causing instability that would get blamed on the OS. Count up the downloads for the apps affected and it is staggering. Just to name a few biggies- Nova Launcher, MX Player, Instagram, Netflix, Mobo Player, etc, etc and a bunch of lesser know apps. Stunning is that there was no warning from Google beforehand that this was gonna go down. Those affected are just us users that get the initial release, Nexus owners and now the GE devices, but that is still a lot of users dealing with the fallout.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Aquila]

This particular update has been more damning for Google due to the security changes. Of course they had to have known the issues it would cause with so many apps, in turn causing instability that would get blamed on the OS. Count up the downloads for the apps affected and it is staggering. Just to name a few biggies- Nova Launcher, MX Player, Instagram, Netflix, Mobo Player, etc, etc and a bunch of lesser know apps. Stunning is that there was no warning from Google beforehand that this was gonna go down. Those affected are just us users that get the initial release, Nexus owners and now the GE devices, but that is still a lot of users dealing with the fallout.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

What's the issue with Nova Launcher? I have that and Netflix on 4.3 and no issues with either one yet. Is it only the OTA that is causing issues? I flashed from .zip so not sure if that's why I'm not getting the bugs or what.

 

[fernandezhjr]

What's the issue with Nova Launcher? I have that and Netflix on 4.3 and no issues with either one yet. Is it only the OTA that is causing issues? I flashed from .zip so not sure if that's why I'm not getting the bugs or what.

I don't use Nova, but I do use Netflix. For Nova you can go to the Play Store and check comments from 4.3 users. Appears to be mainly lag, stuttering, and widgets freezing. For Netflix it is black screen of death. Here is a thread:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2377304

Edit: I also flashed from a zip, a rooted one.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Aquila]

I don't use Nova, but I do use Netflix. For Nova you can go to the Play Store and check comments from 4.3 users. Appears to be mainly lag, stuttering, and widgets freezing. For Netflix it is black screen of death. Here is a thread:

Black screen of death: Android 4.3 + Netflix - xda-developers

Edit: I also flashed from a zip, a rooted one.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

Yeah I heard about the Netflix one and it's bad and fairly widespread (as bugs go), Google and Netflix are working together on a fast fix for it.

 

[Tall Mike 2145]

I don't see the need for them to be forced to write directions for what is no more than a handheld computer with integrated telephony. Wiping before installing a new, fresh copy of an OS on a computer is a long-established normal process. There are plenty of instructions here and across the Internet on how doing this. Ignorance is no excuse.

 

[pzelnip]

There really aren't any widespread issues. Rare ones get magnified when you come to the forums, as most posts are made to express a problem. For every post or thread complaining about an issue you have to assume there are hundreds of quiet happy customers.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

And if you're that one who has an issue, it really doesn't matter. My phone has been lasting ~15 hours *while idling* since installing 4.3, which pretty much makes it near unusable. Last night the battery ran out *while charging via USB on a PC*.

 

[fernandezhjr]

And if you're that one who has an issue, it really doesn't matter. My phone has been lasting ~15 hours *while idling* since installing 4.3, which pretty much makes it near unusable. Last night the battery ran out *while charging via USB on a PC*.

It sounds Iike you got a nasty wakelock going on. You can use this app to track it down.

https://forums.androidcentral.com/e...=com.uzumapps.wakelockdetector&token=tWN4XUf1

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Scott7217]

I don't see the need for them to be forced to write directions for what is no more than a handheld computer with integrated telephony.

We agree that a factory reset can be beneficial as part of a system update. We simply disagree on the documentation. That's all. I think Google will eventually update the Nexus 4 Guidebook and recommend the procedure you described.