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  1. #26  

    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diknak View Post
    I did document what I was using; I said I was using the default Gallary app for pics and videos.

    Do you manage your music through Google's Music Manager? IE, can you see your library ? This is the workflow that Google wants you to follow for music. If you don't buy your music from Google, they want you to upload them to their servers using the . Once you do that, you can stream from any device and you can "pin" (download) any song to any device for offline use. This makes the beam functionality redundant for music.
    Not to mention you probably wouldn't even be in the mood to listen to music anymore by the time you beamed a whole album. Let's not forget beam is Bluetooth transfer. This is why I suggested Super Beam. It connects the devices by using NFC but transfers the files using WiFi direct.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
  2. #27  
    oldAGE's Avatar

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    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diknak View Post
    "It should not be app specific."
    Yes, it should. The app needs to handle the beam process because Android can't automagically determine what files to send. Think about Evernote. If one device has evernote installed and the other does not, what should be sent? The note? The notebook? A link to the app in the play store? And what happens to the receiving device that doesn't even have the app installed? Where does it put that file and what does it do with it? It makes complete sense to be handled by the app, otherwise it would be completely useless except for stand alone files like pics and documents.

    I can completely understand why Google wouldn't allow beaming with music. First, they would expect you to have your music on their music manager. If that is the case, you can just tap the pin to download them on your other devices. Also, if you were trying to beam a music file to someone else, that is illegal so it wouldn't make sense for them to encourage that functionality.
    I disagree. The app does not need to handle the "beam process." That's a function of the OS. What the app needs to handle is the indexing of the binaries that make them function in concert. What you are missing here are the posts where people are reporting that they can't beam simple files let alone complex app file structure. I don't disagree apps need to handle part of the work. That is no doubt. But media files should be the rule, not the exception.

    The premise that Google is concerned about music downloads being illegal is completely off-base. What is actually a great deal more illegal would be transferring pictures from any camera to Facebook where the users account is available to the public (which probably 80% of all Facebook users are). My "likeness" is not allowed to be used for any purpose without my written consent. Furthermore, the transfer of a file that is a .jpg (photo) is in strict violation of the right to use of the codec.That's one reason many professionals use RAW (one of many reasons actually). When I purchase a song, I have the right (inherently) to put it and use it where I want for my own personal consumption. Nothing stops me from taking an SD card and moving from my device to my friends device or using a MAC or PC to move a song from device to device (or Gmail it or Zip it or any other mechanism). Sure, if Google wants you to use their service and restrict you from beaming songs... no problem. But why have so many abilities to share access to that account? I can simply give friends access to my music to download and pin songs to the local device. Lots of holes in the theory of native Google apps not working with A beam for legal reasons.

    And so it goes.
    AGE
  3. #28  

    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    The app does not need to handle the "beam process." That's a function of the OS.
    You are flat out wrong and this is not up for debate. The app MUST handle the beam process. If you believe the OS should handle it, that is a completely different statement than your what you are saying. With the way beam currently works, the app must handle it. In my opinion, that is a good thing, but that is just my opinion and can be debated. The app must register a NFC listener with the OS. When the OS triggers the listener, the app must respond with data to transmit.

    I believe the app handling the beam functionality is a good thing because it provides much more versatility. Let's use a racing game as an example. If we both play the same racing game and use NFC, the app developer gets to choose how that works. The developer can decide if it is used as an invite to play against each other, or it could be a "friend request", or it could be a transfer of time trial information, or it could be high scores, etc. If this was handled by the OS, none of that could happen.

    You are right about the work arounds for sharing music and there are always going to be these work arounds. Regardless of if there are legal motives or not, using the intended workflow is much simpler, easier, and faster than beaming one song at a time. If you want to beam a single file, use a file manager that supports beaming; it really is that simple.
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  4. #29  

    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    The idea that beaming could just happen without the app being involved is just ridiculous. Take the example of the database app someone listed up above. What would one be expecting is getting beamed? The entire database? A table from the database? The results of a query? The permutations are near endless and in many cases, it is completely NOT obvious what would/should get beamed...
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  5. #30  
    oldAGE's Avatar

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    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    I never said that beaming could just happen without the app being involved. If that were the case, then beaming would be possible on any iPhone that supports Bluetooth standards. Right? Then the app designer would simply build "beaming technology" into their apps and then Apple would be just like Google in that respect. So the differentiation here is the OS. The OS is the foundation and without that, the app (being the walls) can't stand on their own. And then the file is the roof... Needs the walls and foundation to stay in place.

    This is a "walk before you can run" issue. Here is a prime example: I have two Samsung Galaxy S3 handsets. I turn on A beam via NFC and I touch the two and I share photos and music using the common functional application... This gives reasonable credit that the application is "important" in the success of beaming. No argument here. What it also does is it debunks a "legality" myth because on my S G3, I can use the Music Player app and give away all my music as I see fit with other S G3 users with the embedded Music Player app. Tonight, I will actually try that on the two S G3s using Google's Play Music app. I simply want to copy one binary file from one device to another. The WALK function. Nothing complicated like indexed relational database tables and all that heady stuff. File from Point A to Point B wherever it lands.... Wireless protocol file transfer that has been around for years.

    But, the true point is Google's position of open systems and standards. The idea that their OS supports something that their applications don't is a failure. If you are a died in the wool Picasa user, you know where I am coming from. A multitude of variants that don't work the same from one platform to another. I would hope they can fix their legs to walk before they try to run.... But that is a tall order.

    As for the others who said... "Why use NFC and Bluetooth" when you can use Wifi Direct?" OK... go out there and give it a shot between devices that support ad-hoc 802.11 functionality. You are going to find the exact same problem if not worse. Now it's SERIOUSLY app dependent because there is no method to the transfer function without the app providing the user with the controls. This is unlike A-beam which gives you the controls even if there is no app support. Sort of a false sense that it should work.... This is analogous to Gen 1 and Gen 2 DLNA. It had it's faults and it could have been so much better.... Now it's just seriously broken to the point of being dead. We are loosing the fight of airwaves to "pay for service media storage and delivery." Even with the stuff we already own. That's my issue with Google Play Music and the whole cloud based services. It's good in theory but the real motivation is storage profit and driving up 4G data usage.

    So, we get relegated back to Windows Explorer with wired devices, drag and drop, and like me -- I manage music on an iPod, S G3, and Nexus 7. I use iTunes as my defacto Music Management app because of the one device that absolutely positively needs to rely on that gateway application.

    One day we will find some elegance somewhere I am sure.
    AGE
  6. #31  
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    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diknak View Post
    You are flat out wrong and this is not up for debate. The app MUST handle the beam process.
    As it pertains to the quote above in your comment that my premise that the app does not need to handle the "beam process" -- then tell me this, what feedback do you get from the app that you cannot "beam" a file between a Samsung Galaxy S3 or Nexus 4 and a Nexus 7 tablet? Give it a shot on a couple of apps that you know don't support file transfers of the .jpg, .m4p, or .mp3 variety. It's like the OSI model. Every layer has it's function and there are a few that have controls between each other but most don't. The actual "beaming process" is an OS function You can say I am wrong and it's not up for debate until you are blue in the face. The success of the actual event occurring is dependent on the application's ability to support what to do with the file(s). One day, maybe I'll sniff a few NFC requests and see where the layers breakdown. But as far as I am concerned from my observations, the OS is providing the controls for the file transfer, opening the channel for inter-device communications, and giving transmit and receive acknowledgements... What the app does or doesn't do is part of the equation for sure.
  7. #32  

    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    Of course the OS is involved, which is what I clearly stated when I explained registering listeners. However, the OS triggers the start of the beam process and requires the app to handle the rest; the beam cannot work if the app developer has not coded for it.

    Are you honestly still going on about transferring music? I have explained this before, but you must have missed this.

    The beam process is not the most efficient way to manage your music on Android devices. Follow these simple steps.

    1) Make sure you have all the music you want stored on your computer.
    2) DELETE all of that music from your Android devices
    3) On your computer, download and install the
    4) Install and point the music manager to the files on your computer. Wait for them to upload.
    5) When your Android device has an internet connection, open the Music app.
    6) Click the PIN icon next to all albums you want stored on the device.
    7) Repeat steps 5 and 6 with all of your Android devices

    That is much faster than beaming individual files. Also, the music manager will continue to pick up new music files as they are saved in those folders.
  8. #33  
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    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    Google needs to put the NFC chip either in one place on all of their devices, OR make it so that somehow their is a way to identify where it is on the back of the device. Maybe with some kind of subtle marker, or subtle opaque NFC logo on the back of devices.

    I swear unless I am using NFC for Nexus 4 to Nexus 4 communication. I always have trouble finding the NFC spot.
  9. #34  
    oldAGE's Avatar

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    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    OK.. First off - you are not reading or simply not understanding what I wrote and you are missing the original point of the OP. Yes, of course the app has to handle "the rest" and all that jazz. You can disagree with my sentiment about the importance of the OS all you want. The point about "registering listeners" is completely moot. And the premise of efficiently downloading music is completely irrelevant. What I simply try to convey is the transferring a song as an example of a non-complex single file binary that proves the failure of the premise of A beam. It does not get any simpler than that. It gets complex with album art and other metadata but that's not what I am trying to convey.

    You have to understand the audience of dozens of millions of Android 4.2 users. They don't know what we know. They know what they see in the store and what they see on the Lumia commercials ("The one trick pony gimmick"). A beam could have value as an ad-hoc sharing solution (irrespective of speed, efficiency, etc.) if it was created and marketed accurately. It's a simple and provable fact that you can do to see where the failure occurs. Here are the instructions:

    1) Turn your Geek Brain off and make believe you are <put your favorite non-geek personality here> (I'll use my example - my wife is a doctor)
    2) Follow the instructions of beaming from a Samsung Galaxy S3 to an Nexus 7. This means turn on NFC on your Samsung and turn on A Beam on your N7
    3) Open up an app like Google Play Music on both devices and find a song on the S3 (your source).
    4) Put devices back-to-back
    5) Feel the haptic feedback that the OS (yes, the OS and hardware, not the application) says that "NFC is working"
    6) See the S3 screen shrink to A beam size and report the instructions "Tap to beam..."
    7) Tap the the S3 screen and see the feedback (coming from the OS, not the app)
    8) Then watch while the file transfers to the N7 from the S3.... or not.....

    So, my wife, the doctor, recognizes that everything is working just fine... Just like 10s of millions of other users she has received all the indications that everything should work. But in reality, nothing is working and therefore, like the OP, a forum question is asked or a call is made to Verizon or Google or ATT or USCC or SPRINT or.......

    So simply put... forgetting about registered listeners, and IP stacks, and all the techno-jargon we can muster.... The simple point is that "A-beam" does not work unless you know what it works with. And when apps indicate that they are NFC compliant and Samsung creates "S beam".... it means absolutely nothing to 10s of millions of users. (and by the way, S beam does not work with A beam compliant apps all the time... how about that disaster. So you have to turn on A beam instead of S beam but there is no longer an A beam option on the S3, it's now simply called NFC...). The world of networking is my world (for almost 30 years now) and the likes of Google make it more confusing than it really needs to be by changing names, variants across platforms (ala Picasa), and a lack of interoperability between OS supported devices and applications on those devices (S3 and N7 as an example).

    As far as music management goes, will not use Google Music Manager because they have a very well documented track record of application abandonment. Thank goodness for Drag and Drop. It has worked since the early days of Macintosh and Windows 2.0 and is still relevant today.

    AGE
  10. #35  
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    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    Quote Originally Posted by John-Smith View Post
    I swear unless I am using NFC for Nexus 4 to Nexus 4 communication. I always have trouble finding the NFC spot.

    I am exploding with comments that I won't make here.... trying.... not......... to.......... type.......... arghhhhhhhhhh..... It's like sex........... arhhhhhhhhhhh....... lots..... lots of practice to find........ arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    AGE
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  11. #36  

    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldAGE View Post
    OK.. First off - you are not reading or simply not understanding what I wrote and you are missing the original point of the OP. Yes, of course the app has to handle "the rest" and all that jazz. You can disagree with my sentiment about the importance of the OS all you want. The point about "registering listeners" is completely moot. And the premise of efficiently downloading music is completely irrelevant. What I simply try to convey is the transferring a song as an example of a non-complex single file binary that proves the failure of the premise of A beam. It does not get any simpler than that. It gets complex with album art and other metadata but that's not what I am trying to convey.

    You have to understand the audience of dozens of millions of Android 4.2 users. They don't know what we know. They know what they see in the store and what they see on the Lumia commercials ("The one trick pony gimmick"). A beam could have value as an ad-hoc sharing solution (irrespective of speed, efficiency, etc.) if it was created and marketed accurately. It's a simple and provable fact that you can do to see where the failure occurs. Here are the instructions:

    1) Turn your Geek Brain off and make believe you are <put your favorite non-geek personality here> (I'll use my example - my wife is a doctor)
    2) Follow the instructions of beaming from a Samsung Galaxy S3 to an Nexus 7. This means turn on NFC on your Samsung and turn on A Beam on your N7
    3) Open up an app like Google Play Music on both devices and find a song on the S3 (your source).
    4) Put devices back-to-back
    5) Feel the haptic feedback that the OS (yes, the OS and hardware, not the application) says that "NFC is working"
    6) See the S3 screen shrink to A beam size and report the instructions "Tap to beam..."
    7) Tap the the S3 screen and see the feedback (coming from the OS, not the app)
    8) Then watch while the file transfers to the N7 from the S3.... or not.....

    So, my wife, the doctor, recognizes that everything is working just fine... Just like 10s of millions of other users she has received all the indications that everything should work. But in reality, nothing is working and therefore, like the OP, a forum question is asked or a call is made to Verizon or Google or ATT or USCC or SPRINT or.......

    So simply put... forgetting about registered listeners, and IP stacks, and all the techno-jargon we can muster.... The simple point is that "A-beam" does not work unless you know what it works with. And when apps indicate that they are NFC compliant and Samsung creates "S beam".... it means absolutely nothing to 10s of millions of users. (and by the way, S beam does not work with A beam compliant apps all the time... how about that disaster. So you have to turn on A beam instead of S beam but there is no longer an A beam option on the S3, it's now simply called NFC...). The world of networking is my world (for almost 30 years now) and the likes of Google make it more confusing than it really needs to be by changing names, variants across platforms (ala Picasa), and a lack of interoperability between OS supported devices and applications on those devices (S3 and N7 as an example).

    As far as music management goes, will not use Google Music Manager because they have a very well documented track record of application abandonment. Thank goodness for Drag and Drop. It has worked since the early days of Macintosh and Windows 2.0 and is still relevant today.

    AGE
    Man, get rid of all your android devices and go Apple already...sheesh! <unsubscribing>

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
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  12. #37  
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    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldAGE View Post
    I am exploding with comments that I won't make here.... trying.... not......... to.......... type.......... arghhhhhhhhhh..... It's like sex........... arhhhhhhhhhhh....... lots..... lots of practice to find........ arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    AGE
    I was thinking about that when typing my comment too, but I persisted anyway :-)

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
  13. Thread Author  Thread Author    #38  

    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    As Beam is unreliable, I'm going to forget about it and move on. ;-)
    Moving the problem slightly sideways...
    Bluetooth between the two N7 Tabs works okay, but what about connecting the two of them via the LAN?

    All my real computers, printers etc here, are (all) LAN connected via Router and switchbox, they all talk to each other without any problems, and because there's a strange mix of very aged and modern machine/OSs they all have fixed IP addresses from the reserved pool I have set in the Router configs. (None are DHCP).
    The two N7 Tablets are connected to this LAN by a Wireless access point, and are DHCP taking the first two addresses outside the reserve pool (21 and 22) and while I can set the Tablets to see and communicate with the real computers and the real computers to see the Tablets, I cannot set the Tablets to see each other, either buy setting the IP address or an auto search by the Filer app, "ES File Explorer" (Have tried other Explorers with the same end result).
    "Error, cannot find the server" is the usual message.

    Any thoughts please?
    Thanks
    Dx
  14. #39  
    oldAGE's Avatar

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    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    This is where higher layer OSI gets ugly and where "computers" and "tablets" get differentiated at times. Not all IP stacks are created equal. So what you are saying is that using ES File Explorer and using the LAN filter (or tab if you will), you cannot see the other N7 but you can see your computers? Are they Windows based (which OS), Linux, or Mac?
    AGE
  15. Thread Author  Thread Author    #40  

    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    For the sake of this discussion lets leave it at Win 7 Pro SP1 and 64bit.

    I've just realised, the N7 can be set to see the Win computers, and printer in the filer, but the Win 7 computers cannot be set to see (Wirelessly) the N7.

    If I want to do stuff *from* the Win 7 I have to connect the N7 to the Win 7 by USB cable.

    Dx
    Last edited by dartutox; 06-06-2013 at 01:19 PM.
  16. #41  
    oldAGE's Avatar

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    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    This may be a result of the Windows HomeGroup networking solution also. That's why I asked about the different computing OS platforms and what you can/cannot see using the LAN tab on ES File Manager. Connecting with a physical cable (USB) is actually launching a device driver on your PC so your Win 7 PC is seeing the N7 not as a "network" connected device but rather as a storage device or a media player (photos, videos, music, etc...). Can you print from your N7 to your USB or Ethernet connected printer? Well, that printer requires a driver so you are often using the PC connected to your printer as the spooler/print server. Can you print directly to your wireless HP printer (assuming you had one) from your N7? Well, does the N7 have the proper Print Driver to spool to the HP? Lots of questions... not a lot of answers. The Tablet is not a PC with defined drivers in the OS for common hardware (like Canon, HP, Epson, Brother... printers). So you have to do a great deal more work to make this kind of stuff work as compared to the "personal computer" world. Same goes -- to a degree -- for "networked connections." IP stacks and drivers and higher layer OSI stuffs sometimes are barriers to expected functionality. Just ask all the people out there who struggle keeping Windows XP computers talking to Windows 7 computers. They are both Windows systems so it's safe to say they should talk to each other without effort.... One would think so. Unfortunately, it's not the reality. Very similar to your original post.
  17. #42  

    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    I think what you want is an app called airdroid. Let's you manage your device remotely from your pc using wifi.
  18. Thread Author  Thread Author    #43  

    Default Re: Does Beam on a Nexus 7 EVER work?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_nobody View Post
    I think what you want is an app called airdroid. Let's you manage your device remotely from your pc using wifi.
    Tried that, just a big PITA.

    Thanks for the thought, appreciated

    Dx
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