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    Exclamation PSA [WARNING/NOTICE] do not use the sbc kernels

    When the thread of this kernel came up about a week or so ago, I went on a long rant about how it wasn't a good idea to use it and how it was going to ruin the battery. Well I think at this point it's a pretty well known thing that these SBC Kernels are destroying batteries. Not even I thought it would happen so soon tho. Truslide I believe was the first person to make a thread here about his battery taking a crap. But there have been others, especially on XDA.. This following post, however, is what prompted me to make this thread.. Granted, it's almost 2 days old, but still... Here's the post by Assange from XDA:

    BATTERY EMITTING "SMOKE" (Trickle-Charge Kernel most likely responsible?!) **PICTURE*
    I have been using the Savage kernal with Trickle-Charge since basically the first day it came out. I have been sick all day and have kept my phone on the charger (because I was sleeping and not leaving the house). I was working (I do alot of work from home) and suddenly I thought I saw a small amount of smoke above my desk. About a minute later a thin veil of very light smoke was comming out of my Evo. I really FREAKED OUT and without thinking picked it up as fast as I could and put it in my bathroom and closed the door (i've heard about exploding batteries and I wasnt going to take a chance). It was VERY hot to the touch and I had to hold it by it's sides. About two hours later I went into the bathroom and the phone was off, and I try to turn it on nothing happens. However, I think the phone is fine, the battery is probably just ruined. Could it have been because of my trickle-charge kernel? It was a stock OEM battery.....
    also, I WAS NOT OVERCLOCKING

    I have read the thread Trickle-Charge thread in the Q&A section and it seems like it all may be tied together



    EDIT: I threw the battery out in the snow a few hours later, popped in another stock one and the evo works! HOWEVER there are weird stains/marks on the inside of the battery cover (maybe from heat or something?). I quickly ran a NAND of some other non-sbc kernel rom and so far so good

    PICTURES COMMING TOMORROW (when I am more awake lol)

    Also check out this thread, it's kind of the hub to all trickle-charge damage LOL






    Here's a list of some other threads started of other people with problems from the SBC Kernels...

    (current count is 7)

    You can add me to the list too btw.. Against my better judgement I tried it out myself. I LOVED IT. I got over 36hrs on a single charge. I couldn't BELIEVE it. I knew it would be a matter of time before the battery started taking a hit, but I had NO idea it would be so soon. Last night I plugged my phone in at about midnight. It had 70% left. When I woke up at 5 in the morning it was only at 97%. I plugged it into the car charger and after a 40 minute drive it only went up 1%. When I got to my destination I immediately changed the kernel. A couple of minutes ago I put that battery back in just to see how it was holding up, while plugged into the wall charger it would NOT increase charge. I could literally see the % drop and drop despite being on the charger.

    There is a reason why manufactures DONT use a trickle charge and use a float charge instead. Trickle charging WILL overcharge the battery. Thats how you get the great battery life. But just as anything, if you push something to the extreme all the time, it's gonna fail at some point. There are PLENTY of battery saving tricks. There is no reason why anyone can't get at least 12 hours of moderate use. If you know you cant, if you know you use the phone a lot, then keep the phone plugged! Get a car charger, bring the USB cord and plug it into your computer at work, or your laptop, hell even a USB port from a cable box would work. There aren't many situations where you can't have your phone charged nearby. If there is, then you might have to use the many battery tricks available. But one options shouldn't be the SBC trickle charge kernels. I strongly suggest flashing a different kernel if you're currently on it. While you may not be having problems now, you may not have any warning signs before things hit the fan. As everything when it comes to rooting, you do things at your own risk. You know the possible risks of using these kernels. I hope not to see any threads of people complaining that their battery or worse phone is ruined because of the SBC kernels....

    OO.. and here's an interesting article by the developer of the Ziggy ROM where he briefly talks about why trickle charging is NOT good for lithium ion batteries:

    Here's the article he's referring to:

    And here's a quick part of it:

    "No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Typically, the charge kicks in when the open terminal voltage drops to 4.05V/cell and turns off at a high 4.20V/cell."
    Last edited by Big D5; 01-16-2011 at 07:43 PM.
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  2. #2  
    truslide's Avatar

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    Werd... this inconspicuously killed my battery. MY story is as follows.

    Flashed SBC kernel, netarchy 4.2.2 smartass trickle v7. Worked great for a few days. Then on a saturday I noticed that my phone was taking forever to charge. It took literally all day to go from 0% to 100%. The following Sunday I was charging the phone and it said fully charged. I put the phone down to work on a paper, came back to check for some messages and noticed the phone was off. Then it wouldn't turn on. I noticed that the LED was off. The phone would not charge. Took it to a couple of places, a guy at radio shack checked it with an ohmeter, it was fully charged. No clue what happened. Phone worked fine with a different battery. I had to find an extended battery since it was the only replacement I could find.

    I also noticed that the battery hit 109 degrees one night while I was playing angry birds, this was at 899mHz, I wasn't overclocked or anything, had all my apps under control via autostarts and android system OS task manager. Stock cable, stock USB wall plug... nothing out of the ordinary.

    User beware. The disclaimer is no joke, use at your own risk because the developer isn't 100% sure what he's doing (no offense developers)
  3. #3  
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    The way that lithium-ion batteries work, they have limited charge/discharge cycles. They actually operate best at 50% charged, and the WORST thing you can do for your battery is to either completely charge it or completely discharge.

    That being said, the reason why HTC builds controls into the device to limit the user from FULLY charging the battery, and also has the device shut itself off before the battery is FULLY discharged, is with battery longevity in mind.

    You'll notice any new device that arrives, comes with the battery at 50%. My Kindle, a new Evo I picked up last week for my dad, iPad, they all arrive out of the box with a 50% battery charge. There is a very good reason why... as manufacturers understand the limitations of lithium-ion batteries and do not charge them to 100% leaving the factory.

    When I read about the trickle-charge kernel, I knew it was bad news... but I had no empirical evidence on Evo usage to really say anything. It's good to see some physical evidence that supports this common knowledge about the limitations of lithium-ion batteries and its impact on a constant 24/7 trickle charge.

    That being said, people who complain that their battery is only charged to 90% instead of 100% when they wake up... umm... this is a design feature, not a bug. I would rather have a 90% charge and be able to reliably use my battery for 2 years with less charge/recharge cycles than have to constantly replace batteries.
  4. #4  
    Kevin O'Quinn's Avatar
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    It's enough of a problem that Vaelek (the developer of Vaelpak ROM) to send an email to all users recommending them to flash another kernel.
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
  5. #5  
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    I use sbc. Didn't hurt me yet but I got an extra battery otherwise I wouldn't.
    Some say the glass is half empty. Some say its half full. I say, "Are you going to drink that?"
  6. #6  

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    What do you recommend we use instead of the sbc kernel. I just flashed it last night and would like to know what's a good one to switch to.
  7. Thread Author  Thread Author    #7  

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    My personal favorite is netarchy 4.1.9.1 HAVS. I get great performance and great battery life
    How to flash a rom on your htc Evo
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    I think I flashed something like this. Anyway to be sure?
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  9. #9  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yourdogsdead View Post
    I think I flashed something like this. Anyway to be sure?
    Settings - About Phone - Software info

    It's a little disturbing you dont know what you flashed on your phone.
  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by unixpsycho View Post
    Settings - About Phone - Software info

    It's a little disturbing you dont know what you flashed on your phone.
    It's very disturbing. I flash way too many kernels.

    2.6.32.25-bcblend_cfs-stable
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    Quote Originally Posted by unixpsycho View Post
    Settings - About Phone - Software info

    It's a little disturbing you dont know what you flashed on your phone.
    Agreed...

    Never Ever Ever Flash unless you know what you're flashing / Doing...

    Fail on ur part
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  12. Thread Author  Thread Author    #12  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yourdogsdead View Post
    It's very disturbing. I flash way too many kernels.

    2.6.32.25-bcblend_cfs-stable
    root@paris-laptop #3
    Yup. Thats one of them.
    How to flash a rom on your htc Evo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerzyiroc View Post
    Yup. Thats one of them.
    Then I guess my phone shall burn.

    BTW, when I chose to flash the kernel I did read before I flashed it. I just forgot which one I flashed. :o
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  14. #14  

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    Thank you very much for this input sir. I will be flashing a new Kernal ASAP.

    I am running Baked Snack 1.8. Does anyone recommend a good Kernal for that?

    EDIT: Should I just go back to Baked Snack's Kernal that comes on the 1.8 ROM?
    Last edited by mgianni19; 01-11-2011 at 07:17 AM.
  15. #15  

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    only time I have ever seen my phone starting to heat up on this Kernal is when I had SetCPU on in some fashion.
    Otherwise it sits cool as ice.
    I have been running it since it came out which is prob like 2 weeks now?
  16. #16  
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    I still can't believe all the people over on XDA that refuse to accept that modifying the way a battery is charged could potentially cause damage. It does seem to be a small number of people having these battery failures so I'm not going to say that the SBC kernels are the direct cause, but it does seem likely that they are a contributor. Luckily, none of these batteries have exploded or caught fire and caused injury or property damage.
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    I am using an AOSP SBC kernel for a while now and my phone never overheated. I monitor the temperature, health and charge with an app.

    I have seem my phone overheat when I was using sence and the navagation.
    the waning was riging non stop until I turn the navagation off and place the phone next to he AC
    Last edited by Calma10; 01-13-2011 at 01:40 PM.
  18. Thread Author  Thread Author    #18  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calma10 View Post
    I am using an AOSP SBC kernel for a while now and my phone never overheated. I monitor the temperature, health and charge with an app.

    I have seem my phone overheat when I was using sence and the nagation.
    the waning was riging non stop until I turn the navagation off and place the phone next to he AC
    My phone never overheated either. But my battery still went to crap. It doest have to overheat for the battery to go bad. And it doesn't have to overheat to be considered over charged. It is a fact that trickle charging is NOT good on lithium batteries. Depending on how long its left charging will surely determine how long it'll take before the battery goes. But I assure you it will eventually go bad much sooner than it would have otherwise. While the battery life is incredible its hardly worth risking your phone.
    How to flash a rom on your htc Evo
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  19. #19  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerzyiroc View Post
    My phone never overheated either. But my battery still went to crap. It doest have to overheat for the battery to go bad. And it doesn't have to overheat to be considered over charged. It is a fact that trickle charging is NOT good on lithium batteries. Depending on how long its left charging will surely determine how long it'll take before the battery goes. But I assure you it will eventually go bad much sooner than it would have otherwise. While the battery life is incredible its hardly worth risking your phone.
    Something I never do is leave the phone charging pass 100%, the battery app will ring when is fully charge. A couple of times I turn the ringer off and left it charging but it was maybe an hour or two. Maybe thats helping the battery, I recomend the app highly is call ECOCharger is free and it works every time.
  20. #20  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerzyiroc View Post
    My phone never overheated either. But my battery still went to crap. It doest have to overheat for the battery to go bad. And it doesn't have to overheat to be considered over charged. It is a fact that trickle charging is NOT good on lithium batteries. Depending on how long its left charging will surely determine how long it'll take before the battery goes. But I assure you it will eventually go bad much sooner than it would have otherwise. While the battery life is incredible its hardly worth risking your phone.
    Quick question for you, not relate to batteries. Have you try to install Ubuntu on your CR-48?
  21. Thread Author  Thread Author    #21  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calma10 View Post
    Something I never do is leave the phone charging pass 100%, the battery app will ring when is fully charge. A couple of times I turn the ringer off and left it charging but it was maybe an hour or two. Maybe thats helping the battery, I recomend the app highly is call ECOCharger is free and it works every time.

    Well the thing is in order to fully utilize the SBC kernels, you have to let it charge past 100%. Typically you have to let it charge about 2 hours or so to get the "full charge". What you're doing is smart though, but in order to get the full benefit of the kernel you actually have to let it charge past 100%, and that's where the problem is at.. I have to say tho, hats off for using your noggin, wish more people did the same lol
    How to flash a rom on your htc Evo
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  22. Thread Author  Thread Author    #22  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calma10 View Post
    Quick question for you, not relate to batteries. Have you try to install Ubuntu on your CR-48?
    Nah. I know there's a dual boot method but I'm not sure if they've come up with a simpler and more effective method. I know they got Android on it too
    How to flash a rom on your htc Evo
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  23. #23  

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    i found a really easy way to do a dual boot, let me know if you are interested.
  24. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerzyiroc View Post
    My personal favorite is netarchy 4.1.9.1 HAVS. I get great performance and great battery life
    Hey Jerzy, I just flashed this Kernel to run in conjuction with the Valepack ROM I am running and now it is stuck on the white htc EVO 4G screen. Any ideas?

    Update: I performed a Nandroid backup prior to flashing the Kernel. Since it was hanging at the boot screen, I booted back into recovery and performed a restore. After the restore, it booted back into the OS and I checked the versions and it says I am still running the netarchy 4.1.9.1 Kernel. I thought a Nandroid restore would take it back to the state it was in prior to me flashing the Kernel?
    Last edited by cloak.n.dagger; 01-16-2011 at 02:39 PM.
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  25. #25  
    Kevin O'Quinn's Avatar
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    Please keep this thread specifically about the OP's original topic. If you are having other problems please post them in a different thread or if you don't find one start a new one.
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
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