Apple: Get A Life!!!

Ry · 06-09-2012, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by crackberrytraitor

Yeah, 5 million users is like only 2.5 billion dollars worth of phones. I'm sure the corporations aren't interested a multi-billion dollar market. And that's based on the fallacy of every single person who's got a rooted phone having titanium backup. Look if modders were so insignificant in the market, things like HTC dev and companie's bootloader unlocks wouldn't exist, crippled as they may be. They simply wouldn't spend a penny on it. And Phones like the galaxy Nexus, which are pretty much made for the tech saavy, wouldn't exist.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

Things like HTC dev and bootloader unlocks - I see those as ways to keep the modding community happy. I don't discount their affect and influence they can have on their friends and family who are just regular users. It's all just good will and posturing really, creating a modder friendly image so the "tech savvy" don't badmouth their products to regular consumers.

When it comes to actual numbers, which neither side of the argument will ever truly have, I strongly believe that those who do things like root or flash custom ROMs are the minority. A number that really is insignificant when compared to all active Android devices out there.

Of the people I know who own a Galaxy Nexus, only one flashes custom ROMs. That's what I'm seeing.

And a smartphone in 2012 shouldn't be only for the tech savvy.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums

**ScandaLeX** · 06-09-2012, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by Ry

Apple was nearly broke and out of business. Steve Jobs cut charitable efforts significantly - a move that most others in his position would have made.

Now as they clawed their way back, do I think they could have done more? Yes. But business is business. Were shareholders clamoring for Apple to give back more?

And yes I say "more" because Apple did not completely end their charitable efforts.

project(RED), anyone?

Now some will say that Apple only backed project(RED) so Bono would back iPod and iTunes - but it's still a charity.

Also, hasn't Tim Cook brought back corporate donations for charitable causes?

And can you name charitable causes the Android OEMs donate to? Sponsoring artistic and sporting events is just marketing.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums

Seems to me Tim Cook is doing quite a few things that Steve Jobs would've never done.
That in and of itself is a good thing to me.

**g1toevo678** · 06-09-2012, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by andyl66

I hate apple with a passion. I also hate iPhone users.

Considering how many people use iphones, that's a lot of people to hate. I would think there's other things in life to be passionate about than a corporation (particularly one with which you admittedly refuse to have any connection) performing its fiduciary duty to maximize returns for its shareholders.

It is obviously personal to you, but to them its just business.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

**corydorcutt** · 06-09-2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by JKK Photography

Steve Jobs' business model, whether we like it or not, seems to be holding very steady.

Let's look at the facts: Apple is able to maintain a number 2 position in marketshare by releasing, roughly, one phone update a year. They are, by a huge margin, the leader in profit share. I get why people dislike Apple, but when you're wrong... well, you're wrong.

The situation at the end of the 80's and the early 90's is different, for various reasons. Apple partially killed themselves; they fired Jobs, their products slipped, the Mac OS fell far behind technologically (the architecture they chose was not future-proofed, etc, etc.), and they made stupid mistakes.

The Apple under Jobs, and the Apple now seems to have mastered their trade, and that's good for all of us. I doubt that if HTC or Samsung hadn't been pressured by Apple that we would have amazing devices like the One X, S, or the SGSIII or Galaxy Nexus.

Apple isn't going anywhere, for better or worse. In my opinion, for the same reason I don't want HTC going under, that's a very, very good thing.

The failing of Apple computer in the early 90s had nothing to do with their software, it had to do with cheaper hardware that was non proprietary being offered by their competitors. If Apple's business model was holding steady, Apple would still hold the number one marketshare in smartphones, and wouldn't be desperately trying to keep their competitor's products from reaching American markets.

And I wholly disagree with you opinion on how Apple drives other companies to innovate. Do you really think Samsung and HTC wouldn't be competeing with Motorola, LG, Sony, BlackBerry, Microsoft and each other if Apple wasn't around?

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

**corydorcutt** · 06-09-2012, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Ry

Things like HTC dev and bootloader unlocks - I see those as ways to keep the modding community happy. I don't discount their affect and influence they can have on their friends and family who are just regular users. It's all just good will and posturing really, creating a modder friendly image so the "tech savvy" don't badmouth their products to regular consumers.

When it comes to actual numbers, which neither side of the argument will ever truly have, I strongly believe that those who do things like root or flash custom ROMs are the minority. A number that really is insignificant when compared to all active Android devices out there.

Of the people I know who own a Galaxy Nexus, only one flashes custom ROMs. That's what I'm seeing.

And a smartphone in 2012 shouldn't be only for the tech savvy.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums

Obviously they're in the minority, my point is, that minority isn't so insignificant that manufacturers don't care about them as people suggest. Even if there are only 5 or 10 million modders/rooters, that's a multi-billion dollar chunk of the industry. And those people are probably the most likely to buy new expensive Android phones on a regular basis. As I said, if modders were so insignificant a market, companies wouldn't spend one cent on dev tools, to placate them or not.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

**_JKK_** · 06-09-2012, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by crackberrytraitor

The failing of Apple computer in the early 90s had nothing to do with their software, it had to do with cheaper hardware that was non proprietary being offered by their competitors. If Apple's business model was holding steady, Apple would still hold the number one marketshare in smartphones, and wouldn't be desperately trying to keep their competitor's products from reaching American markets.

And I wholly disagree with you opinion on how Apple drives other companies to innovate. Do you really think Samsung and HTC wouldn't be competeing with Motorola, LG, Sony, BlackBerry, Microsoft and each other if Apple wasn't around?

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

Let's agree to disagree about the failures of late-80s, early-90s Apple.

That's simply one of many aspects about phones I could point out in favor of the iPhone promoting competition. I could point to Siri and S. Voice, I could point to the idea of an App Store, I could point to the very idea of a completely touchscreen interface, etc. etc. that back up my idea that Apple promotes competition in the smartphone space.

Are you really denying that all smartphones being produced now aren't better because of competition, regardless of who it comes from?

Originally Posted by crackberrytraitor

Obviously they're in the minority, my point is, that minority isn't so insignificant that manufacturers don't care about them as people suggest. Even if there are only 5 or 10 million modders/rooters, that's a multi-billion dollar chunk of the industry. And those people are probably the most likely to buy new expensive Android phones on a regular basis. As I said, if modders were so insignificant a market, companies wouldn't spend one cent on dev tools, to placate them or not.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

To this point, I completely agree with you. I do think that Android OEMs, especially HTC who was having issues before the One line, did design the devices to hopefully foster a great homebrew and hacking community, as those communities ultimately only sell more devices and benefit the power user, a market segment which does have a lot of sway (think: who do people ask for advice on their next phone).

Edit: I can see Ry's point. There very well might be an ulterior motive in keeping goodwill with the community, as well as just doing what is perceived by many as "the right thing".

Ry · 06-09-2012, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by crackberrytraitor

Obviously they're in the minority, my point is, that minority isn't so insignificant that manufacturers don't care about them as people suggest. Even if there are only 5 or 10 million modders/rooters, that's a multi-billion dollar chunk of the industry. And those people are probably the most likely to buy new expensive Android phones on a regular basis. As I said, if modders were so insignificant a market, companies wouldn't spend one cent on dev tools, to placate them or not.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

I pointed out an ulterior motive for keeping the modding community happy. I truly believe it's all for goodwill and not money.

The argument could also be made that unlocking bootloaders could keep a user on the same hardware for a longer period of time, keeping them from purchasing new equipment. I certainly held on to my original DROID much longer than I should have because I was able to flash ROMs, making my phone feel new.

If all manufacturers cared about keeping the modding community happy, no phone would ship with a locked bootloader.

In the grand scheme of things, I will always believe that the modding community is the insignificant minority until there is real evidence against that assumption.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums

**bigdaddytee** · 06-09-2012, 03:12 PM

Competition is good. Apple is an integral part of that. iOS is good for people who perceive it as good.
I think it stinks. That is why Android exists, and why I choose Android.
The world, and all things in it, arise together, as they should, and all is well.
ps, as a primer on logic, how it operates, and how it does not, this post is as informative as it is awesome. Thanks!

Sent from my (pretty awesome) SCH-i515

**corydorcutt** · 06-09-2012, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ry

I pointed out an ulterior motive for keeping the modding community happy. I truly believe it's all for goodwill and not money.

The argument could also be made that unlocking bootloaders could keep a user on the same hardware for a longer period of time, keeping them from purchasing new equipment. I certainly held on to my original DROID much longer than I should have because I was able to flash ROMs, making my phone feel new.

If all manufacturers cared about keeping the modding community happy, no phone would ship with a locked bootloader.

In the grand scheme of things, I will always believe that the modding community is the insignificant minority until there is real evidence against that assumption.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums

But as you said, they do it for goodwill to the modders so they won't talk crap about the phone, thus damaging it's image. Number one that means it IS about money, they don't want buyers to think their products suck, and number two that means you think that's there's enough modders out there to poisen opinions of the phone by word of mouth, as most mainstream phone buyers aren't spending a lot of time on cell phone message boards. That suggests there are a LOT of them. Companies don't offer services that cost them money out of the goodness of their heart.

If you don't believe that the manufacturers care about the multi-billion dollar chunk of the market that is modders (based on the MOST conservative estimates) than you utterly fail to understand how the industry works.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

Ry · 06-09-2012, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by crackberrytraitor

But as you said, they do it for goodwill to the moderns so they won't talk crap.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

Yes, goodwill. Not direct sales from those users.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums

**corydorcutt** · 06-09-2012, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ry

Yes, goodwill. Not direct sales from those users.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums

You replied to the comment I accidentally posted one sentence in, in the 30 seconds before I edited it, lol. Please read the revised comment and reply if you so choose.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

Ry · 06-09-2012, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by crackberrytraitor

You replied to the comment I accidentally posted one sentence in, in the 30 seconds before I edited it, lol. Please read the revised comment and reply if you so choose.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

Vocal minority.

Based on what I know and what I've seen, the modding community is an insignificant part of the userbase. Being modder friendly doesn't equate to a significant bump in sales. Marketing does.

I think you keep replying because I continue to use the word "insignificant".

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums

**JHBThree** · 06-09-2012, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by crackberrytraitor

Yeah, 5 million users is like only 2.5 billion dollars worth of phones. I'm sure the corporations aren't interested a multi-billion dollar market. And that's based on the fallacy of every single person who's got a rooted phone having titanium backup. Look if modders were so insignificant in the market, things like HTC dev and companie's bootloader unlocks wouldn't exist, crippled as they may be. They simply wouldn't spend a penny on it. And Phones like the galaxy Nexus, which are pretty much made for the tech saavy, wouldn't exist.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

Just stop already. The number of users that mod their phones is insignificant. No amount of arguing from you is going to change that fact.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

**JHBThree** · 06-09-2012, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by crackberrytraitor

But as you said, they do it for goodwill to the modders so they won't talk crap about the phone, thus damaging it's image. Number one that means it IS about money, they don't want buyers to think their products suck, and number two that means you think that's there's enough modders out there to poisen opinions of the phone by word of mouth, as most mainstream phone buyers aren't spending a lot of time on cell phone message boards. That suggests there are a LOT of them. Companies don't offer services that cost them money out of the goodness of their heart.

If you don't believe that the manufacturers care about the multi-billion dollar chunk of the market that is modders (based on the MOST conservative estimates) than you utterly fail to understand how the industry works.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

They don't care. The only reason the boot loader unlock tools etc exist is because the people that mod can be a whiny bunch. It doesn't change how far in the minority they are.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

**corydorcutt** · 06-09-2012, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by JHBThree

Just stop already. The number of users that mod their phones is insignificant. No amount of arguing from you is going to change that fact.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Not arguing we're not in the minority, just think you all are crazy if you believe manufacturers don't care about a multi-billion dollar chunk of the market. And companies don't spend money developing software for people if those people's complaints have zero effect on their profits. It's that simple.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

**corydorcutt** · 06-09-2012, 09:00 PM

Accidental post again. Grr at no function to delete posts.

**p3unit32** · 07-09-2012, 06:11 PM

It's odd because after all those arguments I made in favor of Apple, I'm using an Android phone on this post. But I got to admit, I loved my iPhone, but this Galaxy S3 is a durn good phone!

GS3

**corydorcutt** · 07-10-2012, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by p3unit32

It's odd because after all those arguments I made in favor of Apple, I'm using an Android phone on this post. But I got to admit, I loved my iPhone, but this Galaxy S3 is a durn good phone!

GS3

Which kinda goes to say that the only Apple people who don't like Android are the one's who haven't tried it

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

**JHBThree** · 07-10-2012, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by crackberrytraitor

Which kinda goes to say that the only Apple people who don't like Android are the one's who haven't tried it

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

Yeah exactly. I think many of them would be surprised if they tried it. Personally, I use apple for my tablet and laptop, but choose android for my phone because I use that much much more.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

**PhxBlue** · 07-10-2012, 08:05 PM

I see Apple is still living rent free in many peoples heads.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

**p3unit32** · 07-11-2012, 04:09 AM

That's the thing though, I had an Android phone before I got the 4S. But the HTC Inspire 4G left me uninspired. In just that short time, Android has come a long way. I like the GS3, but I wish Google had a flagship phone with LTE capabilities was available on AT&T's network.

GS3

**sniffs** · 07-11-2012, 10:26 AM

What kills me is when people say that Google copied Apple on voice dictation/voice search..

Did we all forget that Google had 1-800-GOOG-411?

Does anyone know WHY they had it and WHY they killed it off? Google saw the writing on the wall for voice search.

For YEARS they used special algorithms to harvest how we search and speak to perfect voice dictation/voice search. All this years before SIRI was even around. All this before the iPhone was around.

Business model

Google had stated that the company originally implemented GOOG-411 to build a large phoneme database from users' voice queries. This phoneme database, in turn, allowed Google engineers to refine and improve the speech recognition engine that Google uses to index audio content for searching.

**JHBThree** · 07-11-2012, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by sniffs

What kills me is when people say that Google copied Apple on voice dictation/voice search..

Did we all forget that Google had 1-800-GOOG-411?

Does anyone know WHY they had it and WHY they killed it off? Google saw the writing on the wall for voice search.

For YEARS they used special algorithms to harvest how we search and speak to perfect voice dictation/voice search. All this years before SIRI was even around. All this before the iPhone was around.

I've actually heard the opposite, that apple copied Google, since Siri was released.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

**Djedgarftw** · 07-11-2012, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by JHBThree

I've actually heard the opposite, that apple copied Google, since Siri was released.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I think the same thing and apple should just face it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

**JHBThree** · 07-11-2012, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Djedgarftw

I think the same thing and apple should just face it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

The funny part is that I don't think I ever heard apple say that they invented it or were the first to have it. They've always billed it as a different kind of voice input, which it sort of was compared to voice actions. The only people I've heard go that far with the hyperbole have been apple fanboys.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2