My conspiracy theory on the borked multitasking

**snoopgoat** · 06-13-2012, 06:03 PM

It's probably a far stretch, but I think ATT/HTC deliberately made the multitasking suck (and unwilling to fix it) because they want you to hit your data cap limit sooner.
Every time you navigate away from any app that needs internet, to do something (e.g. watch a YouTube vid), and then return back, the app reloads. When it reloads, it gobbles data. Overtime, those unnecessary reloads will start taking a hit on your precious limited data.
Now this may only apply with certain apps. The one app I've noticed (which I use a lot) is Dolphin browser. I was initially skeptical if the webpage reload was an actual "reload" or just a "page re-rendering", so I did a little experiment (which you can do too). I went to a site, after it loaded, I went to do a couple other tasks, turned off my internet, returned back to Dolphin, it tried to reload, but failed and returned the "no internet" thingy. In a normal situation, it should just display what I was previously viewing since it was already preloaded anyway. But instead, I returned to a blank page. Now, this may not be an actual use case scenario for most ppl, but you can imagine how annoying it is if you were viewing a site before, and then walked to an area with no coverage, but can't view what you've already previously loaded. Now, I tried this with the chrome browser, and noticed it behaves differently (as expected). If there's no internet, it just re-loads (from cache I guess) what you were previously viewing. But if there's internet, I really don't know if it'll be reloading from cache or from the internet. So, I guess it depends on the app.

Anyway, my point is, if you love hopping around between apps, and they're unnecessarily reloading (because of the lousy multitasking), you might be gobbling more data than you'd like. Which ATT would gladly charge you for once you exceed by 1 byte

What do you guys think?

Developer of Dock for Android/iOS/webOS, Panes for iPad, Glimpse for TouchPad

**icebike** · 06-13-2012, 06:31 PM

Repainting a screen from Cache STILL requires a page hit to the server with the url, date, and time of last fetch.

If the page was not modified since that time, the server returns a , and the browser repaints from cache. This is done for every unique sub-element in the page. (picture, advertisement, banner, etc).

It is technically incorrect to return a cached page with no indication of a network failure.

I keep telling people to Use FireFox, and you will find far fewer page reloads.

**yeah yeah** · 06-13-2012, 07:24 PM

I thought the Sprint Evo LTE has the same thing too. And they got unlimited data.

Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums

**3rdpig** · 06-13-2012, 08:27 PM

I think your tinfoil is a bit too tight. My personal opinion is that someone made a decision to move resources away from apps and to the UI to make it smoother, and now they're too proud to admit it didn't work out so well.

**dmcincubus** · 06-13-2012, 08:36 PM

I've had this phone for two weeks and I hadn't noticed the Page reloads and app reloads until now.

So I guess it doesn't bother me. The 3gig plan I have is more than plenty and I use much of my data on wifi at home. I'm not worried about it.

**mazzmoney95** · 06-13-2012, 08:55 PM

Doesnt it happen on ALL one x's (international too). I doubt ATT had anything to do with it. Anyway, the multitasking thing is enough to sway me to the SGS III. If it wasnt for my friend who had both the SGS I and SGS II saying samsung is terrible (first one's screen broke and GPS didnt work, the second one restarted on him and never turned back on), I'd switch right now. That and all the talk of samsungs ty radios. Anyway, the multitasking ruined the beauty that sense brought to the table this year. Such a shame as i LOVE Sense 4.0 much more than stock. But once a fully working CM9 is out (minus LTE for now)I will switch in a heartbeat. HTC screwed up, and i wish they were getting crucified for it.

**AndroidArmageddon** · 06-13-2012, 09:06 PM

Now that all the reloading has been tinfoiled I cant help but notice it on every single app I switch to. If however you keep your browser open and lock the screen, the page won't reload when you unlock the screen, same with other apps. It's just the switching. Good thing this phone is lightning fast and while it does bug me it's a price to pay for such an awesome device. If we complain enough HTC will have to fix it, unless multitasking is an Apple patent infringement, but hey it's ok if safari rips off chrome!

**Archon810** · 06-13-2012, 09:24 PM

I think it's simple - HTC can achieve better battery life if they gimp multitasking to the point where it's barely multitasking anymore.

**snoopgoat** · 06-13-2012, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by mazzmoney95

... HTC screwed up, and i wish they were getting crucified for it.

Yep. Instead of being called out, they're getting a pat on the back. What good is an awesome screen if it provides an awful user experience? Oh well, whatever...

Developer of Dock for Android/iOS/webOS, Panes for iPad, Glimpse for TouchPad

**crxssi** · 06-13-2012, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by yeah yeah

I thought the Sprint Evo LTE has the same thing too. And they got unlimited data.

You are right on both counts.

One prevailing/recurring line of thought is that the Sense UI is just too big, available memory is much lower than previous phones, and the Sense version of Android is also tuned to be much more aggressive (too aggressive) at killing off or suspending apps. This has the effect of suppressing, restricting, or at times completely removing multitasking capabilities, leaving the phone in more of a "suspend and reload" type task switcher behavior.

Multitasking problems
Sense 4.0 multitasking - hands on impressions?

**crxssi** · 06-13-2012, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Archon810

I think it's simple - HTC can achieve better battery life if they gimp multitasking to the point where it's barely multitasking anymore.

Apps will sleep when they have nothing to do (unless they are crappy). Having true multitasking instead of suspend-and-reload much of the time does not affect battery life in any significant/meaningful way.

**morphoeic** · 06-13-2012, 09:39 PM

I have the same multitasking issues on my Australian HTC One XL, so it's not just AT&T. As others have said, I think it's overly aggressive memory management by HTC, so Sense doesn't get dumped from memory.

**calvin35** · 06-13-2012, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by ingloriousapps

It's probably a far stretch, but I think ATT/HTC deliberately made the multitasking suck (and unwilling to fix it) because they want you to hit your data cap limit sooner.
Every time you navigate away from any app that needs internet, to do something (e.g. watch a YouTube vid), and then return back, the app reloads. When it reloads, it gobbles data. Overtime, those unnecessary reloads will start taking a hit on your precious limited data.
Now this may only apply with certain apps. The one app I've noticed (which I use a lot) is Dolphin browser. I was initially skeptical if the webpage reload was an actual "reload" or just a "page re-rendering", so I did a little experiment (which you can do too). I went to a site, after it loaded, I went to do a couple other tasks, turned off my internet, returned back to Dolphin, it tried to reload, but failed and returned the "no internet" thingy. In a normal situation, it should just display what I was previously viewing since it was already preloaded anyway. But instead, I returned to a blank page. Now, this may not be an actual use case scenario for most ppl, but you can imagine how annoying it is if you were viewing a site before, and then walked to an area with no coverage, but can't view what you've already previously loaded. Now, I tried this with the chrome browser, and noticed it behaves differently (as expected). If there's no internet, it just re-loads (from cache I guess) what you were previously viewing. But if there's internet, I really don't know if it'll be reloading from cache or from the internet. So, I guess it depends on the app.

Anyway, my point is, if you love hopping around between apps, and they're unnecessarily reloading (because of the lousy multitasking), you might be gobbling more data than you'd like. Which ATT would gladly charge you for once you exceed by 1 byte

What do you guys think?

Developer of Dock for Android/iOS/webOS, Panes for iPad, Glimpse for TouchPad

I have thought about this myself. I certainly wouldn't put it past at&t. What I find odd is that I have seen some posts stating that the at&t One X is actually worse at multitasking than both the international version and the Evo 4G LTE. In any event I've been done with the One X for about two weeks now and have had a much more pleasant android experience on my Vivid as I wait for the SIII.

**snoopgoat** · 06-13-2012, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by crxssi

... the Sense UI is just too big, available memory is much lower than previous phones...

I'm not an expert, but how difficult would it have been to shove in an extra gig of ram (like Samsung did for the gs3)? Was HTC being cheap? Or are they planning to release a new version with 2gigs of ram in a few months? Because I wouldn't have minded paying $100 extra for additional ram (and even storage) for the initial release of the oneX. Just saying...

Developer of Dock for Android/iOS/webOS, Panes for iPad, Glimpse for TouchPad

**sracercelica** · 06-13-2012, 10:35 PM

I think an aosp rom should fix this. I mean, my touchpad (with CM9) only has 1 gig of ram and does multitasking perfectly. Sense is just a huge resource hog.

**Saneless** · 06-13-2012, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by crxssi

You are right on both counts.

One prevailing/recurring line of thought is that the Sense UI is just too big, available memory is much lower than previous phones, and the Sense version of Android is also tuned to be much more aggressive (too aggressive) at killing off or suspending apps. This has the effect of suppressing, restricting, or at times completely removing multitasking capabilities, leaving the phone in more of a "suspend and reload" type task switcher behavior.

Multitasking problems
Sense 4.0 multitasking - hands on impressions?

This is basically it. Lower available RAM, bigger bloat, and aggressive settings - the triple combo that makes it worse than it's been before.

It's not a conspiracy as much as HTC didn't do their homework that the S4 chipset combined with more bloaty Sense = a less desirable experience. Samsung took note that their config ate up more ram as well and took care of it for the S4 chipset.

I'm not an expert, but how difficult would it have been to shove in an extra gig of ram (like Samsung did for the gs3)? Was HTC being cheap? Or are they planning to release a new version with 2gigs of ram in a few months?

Cheap might be part of it, but honestly I just don't think HTC is as good at phones and software. It's not like people at HTC actually test to make sure their UI is a good experience or the last 3 years wouldn't have happened.

**snoopgoat** · 06-13-2012, 11:03 PM

Just to be clear, I don't actually think it's a conspiracy. I'm just trying to engage people in discussing some potential side effects of this multitasking issue...

Developer of Dock for Android/iOS/webOS, Panes for iPad, Glimpse for TouchPad

**calvin35** · 06-13-2012, 11:26 PM

Anyone know why none of the big review sites even bother to mention the **** poor multitasking on the One X? I mean this phone handles multitasking in a manner that is completely different and worse than just about any android phone in recent memory and none of the big review sites mention it at all. It is frustrating because if HTC gets a pass they may never fix it, or worse yet, make it common place on all their phones.

**snoopgoat** · 06-13-2012, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by calvin35

Anyone know why none of the big review sites even bother to mention the **** poor multitasking on the One X? I mean this phone handles multitasking in a manner that is completely different and worse than just about any android phone in recent memory and none of the big review sites mention it at all. It is frustrating because if HTC gets a pass they may never fix it, or worse yet, make it common place on all their phones.

This++

Developer of Dock for Android/iOS/webOS, Panes for iPad, Glimpse for TouchPad

**Zaisaroni** · 06-14-2012, 12:13 AM

Sense is too bloated, and HTC's multitasking settings are aggressive to keep more memory free/open.

A real data conspiracy is where the FM radio app is deleted, and they only install an internet radio service.

**icebike** · 06-14-2012, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by calvin35

Anyone know why none of the big review sites even bother to mention the **** poor multitasking on the One X? I mean this phone handles multitasking in a manner that is completely different and worse than just about any android phone in recent memory and none of the big review sites mention it at all. It is frustrating because if HTC gets a pass they may never fix it, or worse yet, make it common place on all their phones.

Actually AC is one of the bigger review sites, especially in the Android world.

Yet with Jerry jumping onto HTC's side with both feet at the top of his lungs in the podcast what incentive do they have to change?

After HTC flying Phil out to Seattle, he can't very well dump on them either.

Sent from my HOX

**crxssi** · 06-14-2012, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by ingloriousapps

I'm not an expert, but how difficult would it have been to shove in an extra gig of ram (like Samsung did for the gs3)? Was HTC being cheap? Or are they planning to release a new version with 2gigs of ram in a few months? Because I wouldn't have minded paying $100 extra for additional ram (and even storage) for the initial release of the oneX. Just saying...

It would not have been difficult nor would it have cost much (maybe $5-$10?). I am not sure why they didn't go with 1.5 or 2GB of memory. I doubt they will release a different One X or Evo LTE with more memory any time soon.

**crxssi** · 06-14-2012, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by calvin35

Anyone know why none of the big review sites even bother to mention the **** poor multitasking on the One X?

Honestly, I don't think most people notice at first what is going on or that it evolves into a problem. And a lot of people still can't tell the difference between multitasking and suspend-and-reload-task-switching.

**calvin35** · 06-14-2012, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by crxssi

It would not have been difficult nor would it have cost much (maybe $5-$10?). I am not sure why they didn't go with 1.5 or 2GB of memory. I doubt they will release a different One X or Evo LTE with more memory any time soon.

There is a report that after boot up the Sprint S3 has 1.2 Gigs of free RAM. This should have been the case with the One X and the Evo 4G LTE. Samsung did it right.

**snoopgoat** · 06-14-2012, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by icebike

Actually AC is one of the bigger review sites, especially in the Android world.

Yet with Jerry jumping onto HTC's side with both feet at the top of his lungs in the podcast what incentive do they have to change?

After HTC flying Phil out to Seattle, he can't very well dump on them either.

Sent from my HOX

Haha!

Developer of Dock for Android/iOS/webOS, Panes for iPad, Glimpse for TouchPad