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  1. #51  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Hildenbrand View Post
    If what I've read in this thread is true (I have no access to the beta SDK, so I will assume they are) Apple has an epic fragmentation problem. There is no way the iPhone 5c can run the same version of iOS as the 5s. There is no way the 5c can run apps optimized for the 5s.

    They will give them the same name, but in reality every iPhone that is not the 5s will not be on the same version as the 5s, as the hardware is incapable of running it.

    Let me be clear I don't think this is a bad thing. This is how software advances. But Apple certainly says it is when they mention Windows or Linux or Android and "all the different versions".

    tl.dr; if Apple doesn't release iOS7 and a separate iOS7-64, they are pulling the wool over the eyes of their users because of stupid things a stupid man once said.
    2 more iPhone and iPad releases in, that won't be a problem.

    Posted via Android Central App
  2. #52  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chetan Takyar View Post
    2 more iPhone and iPad releases in, that won't be a problem.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Because people will forget they have been lied to? Or because Apple will abandon the older models? 32-bit iPhones aren't going away any time soon.
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  3. #53  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Hildenbrand View Post
    Because people will forget they have been lied to? Or because Apple will abandon the older models? 32-bit iPhones aren't going away any time soon.
    What? How have they been lied to? Apps are automatically updated with 64 bit support. Even if the developer doesn't want to. The apps will have 64 bit and 32 bit support. Of course 32 bit iPhones will still remain however Apple will not be supporting the 32 bit iPhones 2-3 years after there launch.

    Posted via Android Central App
  4. #54  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Hildenbrand View Post
    Because people will forget they have been lied to? Or because Apple will abandon the older models? 32-bit iPhones aren't going away any time soon.
    IOS 7 has both 64 bit and 32 bit binaries. Eventually Apple will kill 32 bit binaries in iOS to push 64 bit.

    Posted via Android Central App
  5. #55  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chetan Takyar View Post
    What? How have they been lied to? Apps are automatically updated with 64 bit support. Even if the developer doesn't want to. The apps will have 64 bit and 32 bit support. Of course 32 bit iPhones will still remain however Apple will not be supporting the 32 bit iPhones 2-3 years after there launch.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Because they are told they are on the same version of the OS, when they are not.

    There's no need to convince me, I think this is the right way to go forward, and I've said for years that Apple will have to do this one day. It's how it is done. It's also going to get worse as resolution on displays gets tighter and tighter.

    It is Apple who has always said this is a very bad thing. Like big screens and plastic.
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  6. #56  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Hildenbrand View Post
    If what I've read in this thread is true (I have no access to the beta SDK, so I will assume they are) Apple has an epic fragmentation problem. There is no way the iPhone 5c can run the same version of iOS as the 5s. There is no way the 5c can run apps optimized for the 5s.

    They will give them the same name, but in reality every iPhone that is not the 5s will not be on the same version as the 5s, as the hardware is incapable of running it.

    Let me be clear I don't think this is a bad thing. This is how software advances. But Apple certainly says it is when they mention Windows or Linux or Android and "all the different versions".

    tl.dr; if Apple doesn't release iOS7 and a separate iOS7-64, they are pulling the wool over the eyes of their users because of stupid things a stupid man once said.
    Jerry you might of missed it in this thread or was it another one too many to track.

    When you compile any app it will do both binaries.

    Also if IOS7 is treated like OSX is, it will run 32 or 64 bit depending on hardware detected.

    So as long as Apple pushes two binaries it shouldn't matter. They could be doing this for the next 5 years even if there is no more 32 bit hardware being released.

    By the way Android Central should get you a developers license.......
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  7. #57  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Hildenbrand View Post
    Because they are told they are on the same version of the OS, when they are not.

    There's no need to convince me, I think this is the right way to go forward, and I've said for years that Apple will have to do this one day. It's how it is done. It's also going to get worse as resolution on displays gets tighter and tighter.

    It is Apple who has always said this is a very bad thing. Like big screens and plastic.
    Right now, for all intents and purposes the 64 bit and 32 bit version of iOS are the same. IOS 7 takes advantage of Open GL 3.0 support in the power "rouge" GPU's but the 5S has nothing software wise that will run only on the 5S.

    Posted via Android Central App
  8. #58  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    Jerry you might of missed it in this thread or was it another one too many to track.

    When you compile any app it will do both binaries.

    Also if IOS7 is treated like OSX is, it will run 32 or 64 bit depending on hardware detected.

    So as long as Apple pushes two binaries it shouldn't matter. They could be doing this for the next 5 years even if there is no more 32 bit hardware being released.

    By the way Android Central should get you a developers license.......
    I'm talking about the OS, not the applications. Apple had this very problem with the core2 duo and about 6 versions of OSX. It was a giant mess that . Not very "apple friendly" looking, is it? So Apple ignored it and told everyone that OSX was now 64 bit.

    The application framework layer is just a tiny bit of the package. It's fairly easy to solve, as ARM64 hardware can run 32-bit software just fine. But again there is no need to convince me, I think this was inevitable and is completely acceptable. It is Apple who says it is not.
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  9. #59  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chetan Takyar View Post
    Right now, for all intents and purposes the 64 bit and 32 bit version of iOS are the same. IOS 7 takes advantage of Open GL 3.0 support in the power "rouge" GPU's but the 5S has nothing software wise that will run only on the 5S.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Nonsense. They are either the same, or different. Only one can be true. If they are the same, where's the benefit of using ARM64 hardware?
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  10. #60  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Hildenbrand View Post
    I'm talking about the OS, not the applications. Apple had this very problem with the core2 duo and about 6 versions of OSX. It was a giant mess that . Not very "apple friendly" looking, is it? So Apple ignored it and told everyone that OSX was now 64 bit.

    The application framework layer is just a tiny bit of the package. It's fairly easy to solve, as ARM64 hardware can run 32-bit software just fine. But again there is no need to convince me, I think this was inevitable and is completely acceptable. It is Apple who says it is not.
    Yes I remember all that, part of that was a hardware push, but it has been implied that the lifecycle of cell phones or upgrade cycle is much faster than computer hardware.

    It is expected that most people upgrade their phones every 2 years because of the offers made by carriers. My macbook died after 4.5 years of use. And after upgrading to a SSD in the machine its performance was more than acceptable.

    You really don't have that option with phones even though we are reaching a point where gains are marginal in relation to software versus hardware in smartphones.
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  11. #61  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    Yes I remember all that, part of that was a hardware push, but it has been implied that the lifecycle of cell phones or upgrade cycle is much faster than computer hardware.

    It is expected that most people upgrade their phones every 2 years because of the offers made by carriers. My macbook died after 4.5 years of use. And after upgrading to a SSD in the machine its performance was more than acceptable.

    You really don't have that option with phones even though we are reaching a point where gains are marginal in relation to software versus hardware in smartphones.
    The problem is that people are still buying the iPhone 4, and two years from now will be buying the iPhone 5c as the cheap upgrade. I was baffled when I found out the 5c had the old (but capable) CPU, just for this reason.

    This is what Apple has to prevent. IMO the best way to prevent it would be to tell people that the 5s runs a newer and better version, and give them incentive to upgrade. You know the difference. I know the difference. The average consumer will buy the line that they are "the same".
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  12. #62  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Hildenbrand View Post
    The problem is that people are still buying the iPhone 4, and two years from now will be buying the iPhone 5c as the cheap upgrade. I was baffled when I found out the 5c had the old (but capable) CPU, just for this reason.

    This is what Apple has to prevent. IMO the best way to prevent it would be to tell people that the 5s runs a newer and better version, and give them incentive to upgrade. You know the difference. I know the difference. The average consumer will buy the line that they are "the same".
    I also considered not removing the 4S fro. The lineup and introducing an iPhone 5C without a 64 bit processor extremely stupid.

    Posted via Android Central App
  13. #63  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Hildenbrand View Post
    The problem is that people are still buying the iPhone 4, and two years from now will be buying the iPhone 5c as the cheap upgrade. I was baffled when I found out the 5c had the old (but capable) CPU, just for this reason.

    This is what Apple has to prevent. IMO the best way to prevent it would be to tell people that the 5s runs a newer and better version, and give them incentive to upgrade. You know the difference. I know the difference. The average consumer will buy the line that they are "the same".
    This is what drives me nuts about Apple's iphone release/support cycle philosophy. The iPad 2/ 4s/ Mini is the same internal hardware (minus wifi card) but the iPad2 doesn't get the same features as the other 2.
  14. #64  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by pappy53 View Post
    With the groundwork that Apple is laying now, if they come out with a legitimate large-screen iPhone 6, it could possibly be the best selling phone in history. There will be Android converts by the thousands, if not hundreds of thousands.
    Well no. There will still be that whole lockdown/walled garden thing going on. That will keep me away. And many like me.
    If I wanted limits on what I could do with a device, I would have an iPhone!
  15. #65  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetGator View Post
    Well no. There will still be that whole lockdown/walled garden thing going on. That will keep me away. And many like me.
    I have many friends who moved to Android phones primarily for the larger screen. They still do the same things as they did on their previous iphones.

    What you see as a closed ecosystem, many others view as a solution that's easy to set up and ready to use right out of the box.
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  16. #66  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetGator View Post
    Well no. There will still be that whole lockdown/walled garden thing going on. That will keep me away. And many like me.
    Big Secret,

    Android is a wall garden too.

    Don't believe me.

    Here is one example...

    While movies and TV shows can be saved for offline viewing on the Google Play Movies & TV app, they cannot be downloaded to your computer for offline viewing.
    Also you can only download purchase Google play songs a limited number of times.

    You can download each track from the web two times.
    The only thing Android has that isn't a walled garden is the ability to distribute APKs without using the play store but there is a catch.

    Facebook decided to do updates outside of the Play Store and Google immediately pulled the app because that isn't how they like things to be done.

    Also when you download an apk you take a chance that it could have been modified by outside sources.

    When it comes to ecosystem, the free you believe to be there is imaginary.
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    Chetan Takyar likes this.
  17. #67  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    Big Secret,

    Android is a wall garden too.

    Don't believe me.

    Here is one example...



    Also you can only download purchase Google play songs a limited number of times.



    The only thing Android has that isn't a walled garden is the ability to distribute APKs without using the play store but there is a catch.

    Facebook decided to do updates outside of the Play Store and Google immediately pulled the app because that isn't how they like things to be done.

    Also when you download an apk you take a chance that it could have been modified by outside sources.

    When it comes to ecosystem, the free you believe to be there is imaginary.
    Okay. So both operating systems are as you put it closed garden walls. And I'm dead sure each operating system has a way around the security features.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
  18. #68  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticmeg View Post
    Okay. So both operating systems are as you put it closed garden walls. And I'm dead sure each operating system has a way around the security features.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
    Sorry not sure of your point. Of course there are ways around security features. My argument is that Android has always had a walled garden and it isn't just an Apple thing.
  19. #69  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    Sorry not sure of your point. Of course there are ways around security features. My argument is that Android has always had a walled garden and it isn't just an Apple thing.
    My point being that ios and Android phones both sit in a walled garden but you have to admit and I'm sure anyone can vouch with me on this that Apple has its users locked up behind a jail within a walled garden. You only have to look at how limited the iPhone os is. Does an iPhone have a file system on the phone which allows a user to add files and move them around? Does iOS let users install applications outside of the app store? Don't think so. But so what if there is a risk that apk files download on an android device might be malicious. End of the day us android users have the ability to install such applications that aren't available through the playstore where as Apple won't let you do that unless you're jail broken but I haven't a clue if you can install apps without the app store when jail broken.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
  20. #70  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticmeg View Post
    My point being that ios and Android phones both sit in a walled garden but you have to admit and I'm sure anyone can vouch with me on this that Apple has its users locked up behind a jail within a walled garden. You only have to look at how limited the iPhone os is. Does an iPhone have a file system on the phone which allows a user to add files and move them around? Does iOS let users install applications outside of the app store? Don't think so. But so what if there is a risk that apk files download on an android device might be malicious. End of the day us android users have the ability to install such applications that aren't available through the playstore where as Apple won't let you do that unless you're jail broken but I haven't a clue if you can install apps without the app store when jail broken.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
    You are correct but with one small technical detail.

    Only way to install apps without jailbreaking is to be part enterprise developer program through your organization.

    For example I have a company that has the enterprise developer program, they have me design an app that works with their sales database. They can deploy to any phone without having to go through the app store.

    This is how companies have custom made apps for their services without having to have the app uploaded to the app store.

    So it is available but it is not designed for the average consumer.
  21. #71  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    Big Secret,

    Android is a wall garden too.

    Don't believe me.

    Here is one example...



    Also you can only download purchase Google play songs a limited number of times.



    The only thing Android has that isn't a walled garden is the ability to distribute APKs without using the play store but there is a catch.

    Facebook decided to do updates outside of the Play Store and Google immediately pulled the app because that isn't how they like things to be done.

    Also when you download an apk you take a chance that it could have been modified by outside sources.

    When it comes to ecosystem, the free you believe to be there is imaginary.
    You aren't describing Android, you're describing Google Play services. None of that stuff is required for Android. All of the similar limitations in iOS are required.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
  22. #72  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by garublador View Post
    You aren't describing Android, you're describing Google Play services. None of that stuff is required for Android. All of the similar limitations in iOS are required.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    Are you saying I can't play 3rd party movies or music on an iDevice?

    Are you saying that I am required to buy movies, ebooks, or music on itunes or ibooks only to use on my iDevice?

    Outside of applications those limitations you believe exist, does not.
  23. #73  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    You are correct but with one small technical detail.

    Only way to install apps without jailbreaking is to be part enterprise developer program through your organization.

    For example I have a company that has the enterprise developer program, they have me design an app that works with their sales database. They can deploy to any phone without having to go through the app store.

    This is how companies have custom made apps for their services without having to have the app uploaded to the app store.

    So it is available but it is not designed for the average consumer.
    Fair point. But I meant it for the average consumer who doesn't have the ability to do this.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
  24. #74  

    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Due to the 4GB address limit of a 32 bit computer at some point in the future when phones need more that 4GB of RAM there is a need for phones to have a 64 bit CPU. Till then for consumers there is not a big reason to want a 64 bit CPU phone. At some point 32 bit computers will run up to that 4GB limit and it is wise for phone makers to get 64 bit computers in place. However Apple isn't helping the consumers that buy these 64 bit phones, they are solving their products future software issues by making people pay for something they can't use today that will solve a lot of Apple issues in the future.

    A 64 bit CPU needs more RAM which eats more battery power. Any App that is 64 bit will require your data modem to transfer twice as many bytes that will slow down your 64 bit Application and run up your Network providers charges if you pay per byte transferred.

    What Apple did was make people think their 64 bit A7 runs faster than their 32 bit A6 due to having a wider CPU. The A7 is faster because they reduced the die size and cranked the clock rate not because it was 64 bits wide. Now every phone manufacture will need to move to 64 bit CPU for marking issues since people think wider is faster. With the limited batteries capacities, phone prices and speed of data modems wider isn't better for phone consumers.
  25. #75  
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    Default Re: Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shilohcane View Post
    they are solving their products future software issues by making people pay for something they can't use today that will solve a lot of Apple issues in the future
    The price didn't go up.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." - William F. Buckley, Jr.
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