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  1. #176  
    Haalcyon's Avatar

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    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Android isn't for everyone. It's not as simple and intuitive, as a whole, as iOS and a lot of folks (like my wife and mother) want simple. Also, in social circles more Americans hear iPhone than Htc one or S4 or Note 2 or Droid Razr Maxipad or Evo 4G Ultra Optimus Prime (or whatever its called).

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  2. #177  
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    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Haalcyon View Post
    It's not as simple and intuitive, as a whole, as iOS and a lot of folks (like my wife and mother) want simple.
    Not really anymore. Android has come to the point that, while iOS still has the edge on ease-of-use in some parts of the OS, Android is much more intuitive in other points (example: settings app).

    Also, in social circles more Americans hear iPhone than Htc one or S4 or Note 2 or Droid Razr Maxipad or Evo 4G Ultra Optimus Prime (or whatever its called).
    That's also changing. I'm pretty sure that by now nearly everyone who's heard of the iPhone has heard of the GS3 or GS4. And Samsung's not the only one getting exposure. I know people who were originally set on getting an iPhone but eventually got a phone like the HTC One.
  3. #178  
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    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    So, the battery holds more power than the battery in the HTC One AND it's removable? That sounds like a winner! Good job, LG!
    But it's not removable, and it won't last longer than the One (since the screen is bigger).
  4. #179  
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    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    You say that but you know that carrier ATT you are using, the iPhone is the top selling smartphone. In the United States last financial quarter all 4 major carriers, the iPhone is still the top selling smartphone during an off cycle where the HTC One and Galaxy S4 is available. That is a lot of people who don't care about a SD Slot or a screen bigger than either 3.5 inches or 4 inches.
    The only reason the iPhone is the top selling smartphone is because other OEMs' sales are split among multiple phones (for example, Samsung has the GS4, the GS3, the Note 2, the GS4 Active, and several mid-range and low-end offerings), while Apple is only selling the three most recent iPhones.
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  5. #180  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Haalcyon View Post
    Android isn't for everyone. It's not as simple and intuitive, as a whole, as iOS and a lot of folks (like my wife and mother) want simple. Also, in social circles more Americans hear iPhone than Htc one or S4 or Note 2 or Droid Razr Maxipad or Evo 4G Ultra Optimus Prime (or whatever its called).

    Sent from my humble S4
    I personally think that the openness of Android where it should be an asset, ends up being a mess of bloat, junk and a self serving advertisements platform for the carriers. Bug mistake in my opinion. This is one area that Apple got it right and it shows.
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  6. #181  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by return_0 View Post
    But it's not removable, and it won't last longer than the One (since the screen is bigger).
    Removable. depends on market.

    It's a 3000MAh battery vs 2300MAh. The screen is is larger but they are both LCD. This means both need a backlight.
    The One can get to 500nits; I don't know the maximum brightness on the G2.
    The G2 has about 30% more battery but the difference in screen size does not equate to 30% only about 10%.

    I'd gamble that the G2 in similar tests with the HTC One will get better battery life.
  7. #182  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by return_0 View Post
    But it's not removable, and it won't last longer than the One (since the screen is bigger).
    To clarify, my comment was in response to JHBThree's post. We were discussing the South Korean variant of the LG G2 that has a 2610 mAh removable battery and a micro SD card slot. Forum member KentuckyHouse gave me the details on this model.

    The regular LG G2 has a 3000 mAh non-removable battery and no micro SD card slot. As for the endurance of the G2, we should probably wait for the results of the battery tests from Android Central and other review sites.
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  8. #183  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by xgman View Post
    I personally think that the openness of Android where it should be an asset, ends up being a mess of bloat, junk and a self serving advertisements platform for the carriers. Bug mistake in my opinion. This is one area that Apple got it right and it shows.
    In some cases I do not disagree, much like everything in life one choice is better for certain people. For someone who wants a specific experience that cannot be changed the Iphone may be for them. For me not the case I like the flexibility Android offers.
  9. #184  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    So, the battery holds more power than the battery in the HTC One AND it's removable? That sounds like a winner! Good job, LG!
    Well, the G2 is bigger than the One. LG also utilizes some space saving tricks throughout the device which allow it to fit in a bigger battery than HTC is able to.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
  10. #185  
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    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    To clarify, my comment was in response to JHBThree's post. We were discussing the South Korean variant of the LG G2 that has a 2610 mAh removable battery and a micro SD card slot. Forum member KentuckyHouse gave me the details on this model.

    The regular LG G2 has a 3000 mAh non-removable battery and no micro SD card slot. As for the endurance of the G2, we should probably wait for the results of the battery tests from Android Central and other review sites.
    Oops, I thought the SK variant didn't have a removable battery. But nevertheless, you'll see similar battery life results from a 5.2" screen and 2600 mAh battery as from a 4.7" screen and 2300 mAh battery (assuming all other factors are equal).
  11. #186  
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    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by tech_head View Post
    Removable. depends on market.

    It's a 3000MAh battery vs 2300MAh. The screen is is larger but they are both LCD. This means both need a backlight.
    The One can get to 500nits; I don't know the maximum brightness on the G2.
    The G2 has about 30% more battery but the difference in screen size does not equate to 30% only about 10%.

    I'd gamble that the G2 in similar tests with the HTC One will get better battery life.
    I'm talking about a 2600 mAh battery. That's a 13% increase. The G2 has a 22% increase in screen size (4.53"x2.55" vs 4.1"x2.31"). So in theory, you'd actually see better battery results from the One compared to the SK G2. But you'll see even better results from the G2 in other markets.
  12. #187  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by return_0 View Post
    The only reason the iPhone is the top selling smartphone is because other OEMs' sales are split among multiple phones (for example, Samsung has the GS4, the GS3, the Note 2, the GS4 Active, and several mid-range and low-end offerings), while Apple is only selling the three most recent iPhones.
    Last quarter Verizon sold 7.5 million smart phones, 3.8 million of them were iPhones. That means 3.7 million other phones was everybody else.


    Last quarter ATT sold 6.8 million smartphones, 3.8 million of them were iPhones. That means 3.0 million other phones was everybody else.



    In the United States the iPhone wins among all models, it is what it is.

    But the point is the lack of sd slot isn't really hampering sales.
  13. #188  
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    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    Last quarter Verizon sold 7.5 million smart phones, 3.8 million of them were iPhones. That means 3.7 million other phones was everybody else.


    Last quarter ATT sold 6.8 million smartphones, 3.8 million of them were iPhones. That means 3.0 million other phones was everybody else.



    In the United States the iPhone wins among all models, it is what it is..
    Um... when did I say that's not true?
  14. #189  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by return_0 View Post
    Um... when did I say that's not true?
    But your logic was that the oems split causes the iPhone to be number one, that isn't the case. The iPhone being number one has more to do with first to market and the strong branding Apple has out here. If you combine all the Android phones on those carriers Apple still wins.
  15. #190  
    return_0's Avatar

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    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    But your logic was that the oems split causes the iPhone to be number one, that isn't the case. The iPhone being number one has more to do with first to market and the strong branding Apple has out here. If you combine all the Android phones on those carriers Apple still wins.
    I didn't mean to talk about US-specific sales. Yes, that's completely true on carriers with a majority of sales coming from the iPhone, but overall, more Android phones are sold. This is true in most places, including the US as a whole (where Android has a 50-55% market share and iPhone has a 35-40% market share).
  16. #191  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by return_0 View Post
    I didn't mean to talk about US-specific sales. Yes, that's completely true on carriers with a majority of sales coming from the iPhone, but overall, more Android phones are sold. This is true in most places, including the US as a whole (where Android has a 50-55% market share and iPhone has a 35-40% market share).
    Android is dominant overall, I agree with that. Since the focus is here is about SD slot and removable battery, they aren't needed to sell a phone evident with iPhone sales.
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  17. #192  
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    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    Android is dominant overall, I agree with that. Since the focus is here is about SD slot and removable battery, they aren't needed to sell a phone evident with iPhone sales.
    Definitely; I agree. And likewise, most of Samsung's sales aren't from people who want an SD card and removable battery.
  18. #193  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Okay but you are can't assume power consumption is greater on an lcd because the screen is larger (forgot to the ^2) the other. Power consumption will be based on how bright you have the screen and the backlight technology. If we were comparing OLED, then your analysis is 100% correct; larger screen requires more power. But here the LCD must have a source to illuminate, the pixels themselves don't light up. Both the One and the G2 are LCD technology.
  19. #194  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSlippery519 View Post
    In some cases I do not disagree, much like everything in life one choice is better for certain people. For someone who wants a specific experience that cannot be changed the Iphone may be for them. For me not the case I like the flexibility Android offers.
    I'd like the flexibility to clear out all the bloatware on an carrier specific Android phone that doesn't require rooting. A bad implementation of an Android wrapper can otherwise ruin a perfectly good phone in my opinion.
  20. #195  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    In the United States the iPhone wins among all models, it is what it is.

    But the point is the lack of sd slot isn't really hampering sales.
    I think if Apple released an iPhone with a micro SD card slot, it would still sell well. Likewise, if LG released the G2 as two separate models, one with a micro SD card slot and one without it, those would sell well, too.

    At least Apple is consistent in its design philosophy. No iPhone has ever had removable storage so far, and I don't expect that to change in the foreseeable future.

    LG appears to be making a G2 with removable storage, but it's only for sale in South Korea for reasons only they know. If LG sold both versions in every country, I don't think people would complain. They would just buy the version they liked.
  21. #196  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    To put it simply... The Cloud is the future. Most agree.
    So dont blame the phone. This is going to be a great phone.
    I dont see any bad things.

    The only ugly thing IMO is the volume controls on the back.
    Samsung GS4 GPE | LG Nexus 4 - Sold | GNexus - Sold | HTC One S - Broke | Vibrant - Retired
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  22. #197  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    I think if Apple released an iPhone with a micro SD card slot, it would still sell well. Likewise, if LG released the G2 as two separate models, one with a micro SD card slot and one without it, those would sell well, too.

    At least Apple is consistent in its design philosophy. No iPhone has ever had removable storage so far, and I don't expect that to change in the foreseeable future.

    LG appears to be making a G2 with removable storage, but it's only for sale in South Korea for reasons only they know. If LG sold both versions in every country, I don't think people would complain. They would just buy the version they liked.
    The reasons for no SD here is clear; at least to me anyway.
    The carriers don't want you to have SD. They make money on streaming, not on local playing.
    If you must use the cloud, then you must use data.
    They charge for data. No local storage means you will use more data.
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  23. #198  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by tech_head View Post
    The reasons for no SD here is clear; at least to me anyway.
    The carriers don't want you to have SD. They make money on streaming, not on local playing.
    If you must use the cloud, then you must use data.
    They charge for data. No local storage means you will use more data.
    That reasoning doesn't make much sense when you consider that the non SD version is being sold everywhere except Korea.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
  24. #199  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Why won't this topic ever end? Let's clear this up:

    If you've noticed, virtually every asian market variant of every phone from almost every manufacturer typically has a removable battery and an SD slot. Even the modern versions of everything stays the same - HTC One, HTC Buttery S, G2, S4 (more internal storage + microSD), etc. The list goes on and on. Some people cry 'favoritism!' because sometimes the OEM comes from that area. No, that's not it. The reason is simple: average customer market needs (the largest group of consumers).

    Despite what many people believe, American consumers as a whole (the larger group) do not purchase memory cards for smartphones and when they do they are typically the 16gb or 32gb variant at the most. Americans as a whole do not even typically purchase the phone option that has more than 16gb. Don't believe me? Go pull up sales numbers of every phone from the past decade that had 2 or more variants and see which one sold the best. The answer is simple: the cheaper, smaller sized one. This even applies to the iPhone. Virtually no one buys the 32gb and the 64gb is even more rare. The iPad follows the same suit, the S4, Note... I think you get the point. This also applies to removable batteries. The average consumer in America DOES NOT purchase an extra battery. In fact, according to accessory numbers, the only accessories Americans as a whole purchase is typically a car charger and MAYBE a case and rarely anything more than that. Remember: we're talking about the average consumer. Most of us here are typically not always average consumers. How do I know that? Simple: The average consumer also doesn't frequent tech sites like these. They follow trends, watch commercials and make a decision solely off of what is 'cool' and the only decision they make is which 'group of cool' they want to fit into.

    Why no removable batteries in America
    So, getting back to the topic at hand (why no microSD or removable batteries in America) we see an easy decision for OEM's when it comes to American consumers. Why add removable batteries when hardly anyone buys them? Some may argue that they would do it just to be 'convenient', but then you forget what American consumers value the most in a smartphone: looks. Yes, we're vain people. Apple proves this successfully in virtually everything they make. Americans - as a group (and this is statistically proven) - are vain. Almost everything we buy has 'looks' at the top of the list. The simple fact is that you can make a much nicer looking product that does not have a removable battery. Other advantages include avoiding problems associated with faulty battery units (a built in battery is quite different in technology than a removable one) or dealing with supply chain issues and such. Plus, it's one less thing for the consumer to tinker with and mess up in some way (often times the few people that do buy extra batteries RARELY get an OEM one - causing problems).

    Why no microSD
    Similar to removable batteries, microSD cards do statistically cause more problems than they solve. OEM's do not test performance based on the hundreds of thousands of different variations of memory cards. They test it based on the internal storage, which again - similar to removable batteries - has different technology slightly than what a removable card has. The hardware associated with internal flash is different in some key aspects than a microSD and yes, STATISTICALLY, internal memory has crashed significantly less than microSD.

    But, this is not the main reason they don't do memory cards. It often times again goes back to design. Removing the hardware associated with a microSD frees up a little space for other things. See where I'm going with this? Design again. It's one less thing that can go wrong and gives them one more option of something else they could tweak. Plus, as aforementioned, Americans as a whole do not purchase memory cards like you think they do for smartphones. Most people get by just fine with their 8-16gb phones - otherwise they wouldn't be buying them.

    Why do asian market typically get microSD and removable battery variants?
    Because their average consumer market needs actually has proved that they need and USE them. If you've taken a look at the asian market, they actually use their phones - compared to Americans which "think" they do. The main difference is many of these markets is that because of financial woes often times people buying a smartphone likely made the decision to buy that instead of a computer entirely. They don't have a laptop. They don't have a tablet, they don't have a desktop. They have a smartphone. As such, their needs greatly dictate needing removable batteries because they will obliterate their battery life in a few hours (ever notice that most asian market variants already include 2 batteries...do you really think the OEM's just do that to be nice? No, it's NEEDED. People wouldn't buy it there if it didn't have it). They need microSD because once you start getting above 16gb for internal flash storage, it gets expensive in those markets. Memory cards are cheaper for the consumer. A phone with 32gb or 64gb internal would be lusted after, but the cost is high and it's better for the OEM to just release a 16 and 32gb version with memory card support.

    Even in America you'll notice few Android OEM's have tried to release a 64gb variant. While most of that has to do with the fact that it won't sell more than a few hundred thousand units at best, it's also because it's expensive. Apple is pretty much the only consistent player in this segment and look at how expensive that phone is and the 64gb barely sells, but they can afford to do that.

    .... are we done with this topic now?


    As a side note
    Yes, there is some truth in carriers wanting you to use memory cards because accessory sales are nothing but pure profit. However, go pull up sales figures on how well memory cards sell in stores and you'll see it's poor. So, obviously it's not a big enough factor to force them to make OEM's release microSD support...at least in America. The real truth is that carriers want you to use their network. Data is the new money maker...not microSD. The more data you use, the higher your plan needs to be. Carriers have more reason to encourage you to use data than they do to encourage you to buy a microSD. A microSD is just a one time sale. Data is monthly and if you're on contract, they make a lot more money from you signing up for a higher tier data plan they do the megabyte plans.

    If you haven't already gotten on board with internal flash and still think microSD is the future you're going to be very depressed come 2015. In 2014 you'll see that most companies will already by then be releasing smartphones without microSD and then by 2015 virtually no one will - in America. Data is in, microSD is out. Apple and Google won so get with it. Frankly, it's better this way (performance wise), but many people don't see it yet.
    Last edited by WickedRabbit; 08-14-2013 at 12:47 AM.
  25. #200  

    Default Re: G2: Good, Bad and Ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedRabbit View Post
    Why won't this topic ever end? Let's clear this up:

    If you've noticed, virtually every asian market variant of every phone from almost every manufacturer typically has a removable battery and an SD slot. Even the modern versions of everything stays the same - HTC One, HTC Buttery S, G2, S4 (more internal storage + microSD), etc. The list goes on and on. Some people cry 'favoritism!' because sometimes the OEM comes from that area. No, that's not it. The reason is simple: average customer market needs (the largest group of consumers).

    Despite what many people believe, American consumers as a whole (the larger group) do not purchase memory cards for smartphones and when they do they are typically the 16gb or 32gb variant at the most. Americans as a whole do not even typically purchase the phone option that has more than 16gb. Don't believe me? Go pull up sales numbers of every phone from the past decade that had 2 or more variants and see which one sold the best. The answer is simple: the cheaper, smaller sized one. This even applies to the iPhone. Virtually no one buys the 32gb and the 64gb is even more rare. The iPad follows the same suit, the S4, Note... I think you get the point. This also applies to removable batteries. The average consumer in America DOES NOT purchase an extra battery. In fact, according to accessory numbers, the only accessories Americans as a whole purchase is typically a car charger and MAYBE a case and rarely anything more than that. Remember: we're talking about the average consumer. Most of us here are typically not always average consumers. How do I know that? Simple: The average consumer also doesn't frequent tech sites like these. They follow trends, watch commercials and make a decision solely off of what is 'cool' and the only decision they make is which 'group of cool' they want to fit into.

    Why no removable batteries in America
    So, getting back to the topic at hand (why no microSD or removable batteries in America) we see an easy decision for OEM's when it comes to American consumers. Why add removable batteries when hardly anyone buys them? Some may argue that they would do it just to be 'convenient', but then you forget what American consumers value the most in a smartphone: looks. Yes, we're vain people. Apple proves this successfully in virtually everything they make. Americans - as a group (and this is statistically proven) - are vain. Almost everything we buy has 'looks' at the top of the list. The simple fact is that you can make a much nicer looking product that does not have a removable battery. Other advantages include avoiding problems associated with faulty battery units (a built in battery is quite different in technology than a removable one) or dealing with supply chain issues and such. Plus, it's one less thing for the consumer to tinker with and mess up in some way (often times the few people that do buy extra batteries RARELY get an OEM one - causing problems).

    Why no microSD
    Similar to removable batteries, microSD cards do statistically cause more problems than they solve. OEM's do not test performance based on the hundreds of thousands of different variations of memory cards. They test it based on the internal storage, which again - similar to removable batteries - has different technology slightly than what a removable card has. The hardware associated with internal flash is different in some key aspects than a microSD and yes, STATISTICALLY, internal memory has crashed significantly less than microSD.

    But, this is not the main reason they don't do memory cards. It often times again goes back to design. Removing the hardware associated with a microSD frees up a little space for other things. See where I'm going with this? Design again. It's one less thing that can go wrong and gives them one more option of something else they could tweak. Plus, as aforementioned, Americans as a whole do not purchase memory cards like you think they do for smartphones. Most people get by just fine with their 8-16gb phones - otherwise they wouldn't be buying them.

    Why do asian market typically get microSD and removable battery variants?
    Because their average consumer market needs actually has proved that they need and USE them. If you've taken a look at the asian market, they actually use their phones - compared to Americans which "think" they do. The main difference is many of these markets is that because of financial woes often times people buying a smartphone likely made the decision to buy that instead of a computer entirely. They don't have a laptop. They don't have a tablet, they don't have a desktop. They have a smartphone. As such, their needs greatly dictate needing removable batteries because they will obliterate their battery life in a few hours (ever notice that most asian market variants already include 2 batteries...do you really think the OEM's just do that to be nice? No, it's NEEDED. People wouldn't buy it there if it didn't have it). They need microSD because once you start getting above 16gb for internal flash storage, it gets expensive in those markets. Memory cards are cheaper for the consumer. A phone with 32gb or 64gb internal would be lusted after, but the cost is high and it's better for the OEM to just release a 16 and 32gb version with memory card support.



    .... are we done with this topic now?

    Some flaws with your theory:

    1. How does going to the expense of designing different hardware configurations benefit the phone companies? It would be more economical to not have to engineer phones that drastically different.

    2. To that point above, Apple seems to sell to a world market without this need to make removeable batteries or memory. So how do they manage to do that while other phone makers cannot?

    3. To say that Apple has only sold a few hundred thousand 64gb models is far fetched at best.

    4. To say that Americans are vain and only want form over function ignores all those S3 and S4 sales with their removable batteries and memory cards.
    If I wanted limits on what I could do with a device, I would have an iPhone!
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