Future of LG and removable batteries

Ryano89

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We covered Samsung's recall case already; I think it would have made their situation far worse and significantly increased their risk. I also think that they would not have found it possible to recall only the batteries due to both what information they knew (and didn't know) at the time and on what we all know now.

As for the pros and cons of removable and non removable, I'd asked for the pro removable crowd to provide the benefits of removable, aside from the obvious hot swap back to full use case. So far zero answers on that. Remember zero I indicated that most of the benefits of sealed have to do with options that become available and fewer engineering compromises.

Extended battery cases that aren't as big, longer between replacement phones, never having to be near an outlet AND still be able to use your phone, IF a battery does go bad not needing to send my phone somewhere for replacement, pulling the battery in case your phone freezes, spending the day at the amusement park with my daughter and being able to take as many videos/ pics as I want......and because I like it. Now, what are your reasons for why we are wrong? You haven't offered any yet.
 

Aquila

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Now, what are your reasons for why we are wrong? You haven't offered any yet.

You just confused me. I don't think any of you are wrong. Everyone is supposed to like whatever it is that they want to like. There's nothing wrong with wanting to buy phones with removable batteries if that's what you want to do. That's actually exactly what you should do.
 

anon(394005)

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Did something I said in this thread contradict that?

Here's the rest of that statement: "Yes, I think that it is easier for me to understand wanting the utility of a removable battery than it is for people to understand the reasons that I wouldn't want one. And I am sincerely glad that LG makes a phone with the removable battery and I'm glad you like it - just saying it's not for me; two different points." Emphasis mine. It seems like this is the exact same problem we're seeing in this thread 3 months later.

My greater point was to show that you "personally despise" removable batteries so I think it's pointless and unproductive to engage in debate with you about the topic. It's largely why I no longer participate in these kind of threads anymore (along with others who have similar views that just can't seem to leave well enough alone and which ultimately lead such threads to being shutdown/locked).

You just confused me. I don't think any of you are wrong. Everyone is supposed to like whatever it is that they want to like. There's nothing wrong with wanting to buy phones with removable batteries if that's what you want to do. That's actually exactly what you should do.

I'm confused as well then. Why exactly are you here in this thread (or other similar threads) with incessant debate against user-replaceable batteries? :confused:
 

Aquila

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I'm confused as well then. Why exactly are you here in this thread (or other similar threads) with incessant debate against user-replaceable batteries? :confused:

Oh, because I don't think that everyone shares the opinion that they are an important feature or even the most important feature and that side is greatly underrepresented within the forums despite being the vast majority of the actual consumer base. As I indicated earlier, I think it's somewhat strange that it's very easy for me, who would not like this feature, to understand why someone would want this or that particular feature, yet those who do want it can't seem to understand reasons that someone might feel otherwise. Any time there is a "X or NO BUY!" type of feature, I think it's important that people who want that feature are able to explain why they do, etc. and just as important that others get to explain why they wouldn't want that feature, or perhaps provide some information that paints context as to why that feature may be absent or becoming extinct, despite that users personal desire to see it thrive.

To me it appears as if very few people are trying to understand the scenario objectively and that many people are more likely to invent conspiracies to explain why features are absent, rather than actually thinking it through and weighing the pros and cons, not only from their own perspective, but from that of other consumers and from that of the folks actually designing it. I choose to believe there's a reason the market is heading certain directions and then try to understand those reasons.

I also enjoy it when people who have an opposing view to mine are able to articulate their views and logically debate their position when weighed fairly against counter positions. I absolutely do not think that anyone else ought to agree with my position, etc. They should like whatever they want and do whatever they like. But we're a bunch of phone nerds here and a huge part of the fun is going back and forth to defend our positions. I do think that arguments should be made in a way that is intellectually honest and logically consistent and so I do try to push for that as well. But the more important thing is just to break through the echo chamber and to be engaged. My own opinions are shaped by some of these discussions because there are a lot of people who will make points I've never thought of. Be together; not the same.
 

Almeuit

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I'm confused as well then. Why exactly are you here in this thread (or other similar threads) with incessant debate against user-replaceable batteries?

What fun would a forum be if everyone just agreed all the time? Debates can be fun to see the various points of view :).
 

Ryano89

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Oh, because I don't think that everyone shares the opinion that they are an important feature or even the most important feature and that side is greatly underrepresented within the forums despite being the vast majority of the actual consumer base. As I indicated earlier, I think it's somewhat strange that it's very easy for me, who would not like this feature, to understand why someone would want this or that particular feature, yet those who do want it can't seem to understand reasons that someone might feel otherwise. Any time there is a "X or NO BUY!" type of feature, I think it's important that people who want that feature are able to explain why they do, etc. and just as important that others get to explain why they wouldn't want that feature, or perhaps provide some information that paints context as to why that feature may be absent or becoming extinct, despite that users personal desire to see it thrive.

To me it appears as if very few people are trying to understand the scenario objectively and that many people are more likely to invent conspiracies to explain why features are absent, rather than actually thinking it through and weighing the pros and cons, not only from their own perspective, but from that of other consumers and from that of the folks actually designing it. I choose to believe there's a reason the market is heading certain directions and then try to understand those reasons.

I also enjoy it when people who have an opposing view to mine are able to articulate their views and logically debate their position when weighed fairly against counter positions. I absolutely do not think that anyone else ought to agree with my position, etc. They should like whatever they want and do whatever they like. But we're a bunch of phone nerds here and a huge part of the fun is going back and forth to defend our positions. I do think that arguments should be made in a way that is intellectually honest and logically consistent and so I do try to push for that as well. But the more important thing is just to break through the echo chamber and to be engaged. My own opinions are shaped by some of these discussions because there are a lot of people who will make points I've never thought of. Be together; not the same.

I honestly have used sealed and unsealed, I'm ok either way. But I chimed in because I'm curious At what point will you explain in more detail why you think sealed is better? I'm genuinely curious because a higher capacity battery is the only reason that I can come up with. What are your thoughts?
 

Aquila

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I honestly have used sealed and unsealed, I'm ok either way. But I chimed in because I'm curious At what point will you explain in more detail why you think sealed is better? I'm genuinely curious because a higher capacity battery is the only reason that I can come up with. What are your thoughts?

Oh I listed some a page or two ago. The main benefit to me personally is going to be either handling heat better or larger capacity batteries which can fill up the empty space.
 

TheMarcus

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Can we all just agree that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now if phones shipped with large enough batteries that even the heaviest power user could get through a day with minimal charging?

When it comes to a sealed battery, I think Motorola/Lenovo got it right with the Moto Z. The standard option is there for those weirdos who like anorexic phones, then there's the Force for those of us who want the best and are a bit more practical, then there's the play that sacrifices in areas that aren't important for most people, but manages to give insane battery life in return. Then, for those of us who absolutely need that extra juice, there's an option to add more battery.

If the V30 doesn't have a removable battery, I'm buying the next generation Moto Z Play, slapping a battery mod on it, and never thinking about battery life ever again.
 

skeptic25

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Oh I listed some a page or two ago. The main benefit to me personally is going to be either handling heat better or larger capacity batteries which can fill up the empty space.

See, that's the problem. You say to put a bigger battery in to fill the space but the inverse is true. They are shrinking the device to fit the smaller battery so they're able to say we have the thinnest, lightest phone in the industry. At least for this quarter we do.
 

Aquila

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See, that's the problem. You say to put a bigger battery in to fill the space but the inverse is true. They are shrinking the device to fit the smaller battery so they're able to say we have the thinnest, lightest phone in the industry. At least for this quarter we do.
Yes, so far the majority of OEMs have capitalized the wrong direction
 

mrdave570

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To be honest, my V20 lasts so long that I don't really need to charge it that often during a typical day (week or weekend). I usually charge it before i fall asleep. The extra battery was bought for two reasons. One reason is in case I go to a multi-day rock festival where charging is impossible except when the music ends after 1AM. Second reason is I know that the original battery is going to get worse over time (usually after the first year). I've owned the V20 for 6 weeks and have not had the need to swap batteries based on my typical usage. Nor have I carried it around. If LG ends this feature, then I will worry about it when my next phone is bought in 2-3 years from now. Until then, this is for peace of mind.
 

Ry

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Until no new phone is sold with a removable battery, no one is forced to by a new phone with a sealed battery.
 

zoggybottom

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For me, I think the problem is that there's little short-term benefit to manufacturers of having a user-replaceable battery. It costs them more to make, limits their options and potentially extends the life of the phone (it will last beyond the battery, which often seems to be the limiting factor). This is not in their interest.

Having a user-replaceable battery is in my best interest... hopefully, there are enough of us that agree that manufacturer(s) will continue to offer it!
 

Mooncatt

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Can we all just agree that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now if phones shipped with large enough batteries that even the heaviest power user could get through a day with minimal charging?
Nope. If you've seen my other posts here, you'd know why. Capacity has yet to be my problem with sealed batteries.
 

Aquila

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Nope. If you've seen my other posts here, you'd know why. Capacity has yet to be my problem with sealed batteries.
I attribute your cases to rotten luck. Always have, probably always will. If everyone or even a huge number of people had those issues consistently I'd be the first bannerman for removable.
 

Mooncatt

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I attribute your cases to rotten luck. Always have, probably always will. If everyone or even a huge number of people had those issues consistently I'd be the first bannerman for removable.
Rotten indeed. If it were only one or two of the phones, I'd be willing to chalk it up to "it happens." For something to have happened with that many phones, and to have been every phone with a sealed battery I tried, it has me scratching my head wondering if it was more than pure luck.
 

MikeyBugs95

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The other several most recent people are the .3% we talked about :)

Out of curiosity, where are you getting your 1%, 0.3% numbers from?

And in-line with the person who made the"at-best" statement, the pros/cons can be debated to no end.

And I have to disagree that the Note 7 would still be a disaster if the batteries were removable. By being a non-removable battery phone, the tolerance between casing and battery can be much, much tighter. The battery isn't supposed to be removed so you don't need to factor in that ability and hence the battery can be much larger as a consequence. By the sheer virtue of being removable, removable batteries NEED a large tolerance between casing and battery in order to be removed. You can not have a spacing of, say, 0.01 millimeters with a removable battery because then it won't necessarily be able to be removed. You need a tolerance large enough that the battery can be removed and replaced with relative ease. By that virtue alone, there would have been enough space for the battery in the Note 7 to expand. Even if the first battery had an unavoidable defect such as the second batch had, it would nonetheless have space to expand and contract through the charge-discharge cycles. In that sense, and that sense alone, every other possible argument ignored, removable batteries are inherently better than non-removables. They have space to expand and contract by sheer virtue of purpose.
 
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MikeyBugs95

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Oh, because I don't think that everyone shares the opinion that they are an important feature or even the most important feature and that side is greatly underrepresented within the forums despite being the vast majority of the actual consumer base. As I indicated earlier, I think it's somewhat strange that it's very easy for me, who would not like this feature, to understand why someone would want this or that particular feature, yet those who do want it can't seem to understand reasons that someone might feel otherwise. Any time there is a "X or NO BUY!" type of feature, I think it's important that people who want that feature are able to explain why they do, etc. and just as important that others get to explain why they wouldn't want that feature, or perhaps provide some information that paints context as to why that feature may be absent or becoming extinct, despite that users personal desire to see it thrive.

To me it appears as if very few people are trying to understand the scenario objectively and that many people are more likely to invent conspiracies to explain why features are absent, rather than actually thinking it through and weighing the pros and cons, not only from their own perspective, but from that of other consumers and from that of the folks actually designing it. I choose to believe there's a reason the market is heading certain directions and then try to understand those reasons.

I also enjoy it when people who have an opposing view to mine are able to articulate their views and logically debate their position when weighed fairly against counter positions. I absolutely do not think that anyone else ought to agree with my position, etc. They should like whatever they want and do whatever they like. But we're a bunch of phone nerds here and a huge part of the fun is going back and forth to defend our positions. I do think that arguments should be made in a way that is intellectually honest and logically consistent and so I do try to push for that as well. But the more important thing is just to break through the echo chamber and to be engaged. My own opinions are shaped by some of these discussions because there are a lot of people who will make points I've never thought of. Be together; not the same.

Having read the thread in its entirety, I also have to agree that there are points at which you response is along the lines of "no, I will not accept that opinion," "no, your argument is invalid" despite the opinion and argument being just as valid as anyone's. In the beginning of the thread, you requested our opinions while only providing very vague points or non-answers with others providing conclusive opinions and points in response.

As had been proven, you despise removable batteries. So while you claim that you are simply trying to open our minds to 'other options,' it is important to remember that one cannot open minds while retaining a closed mind themselves.

In fact, I am of the opinion that those who like the removable batteries understand well enough why someone wants a sealed battery. On the other hand, it seems as though you are having difficulty in ascertaining and understanding the merits of the feature to which you are so vehemently opposed too.

The benefits and drawbacks of each different feature does fall almost squarely upon benefits for the manufacturer versus benefits for the consumer.

On the one hand you have sealed batteries. This method benefits the manufacturer most handsomely. It is less expensive to produce with fewer parts and assemblies needed. Devices can be manufactured smaller and thinner while keeping similar battery sizes to the removable counterparts. Glass can be incorporated into the back which can allow for a built-in remote charging feature. Slightly more space can be made available for electronics or battery components (but, as previously noted, batteries have remained brick-shaped; give me an apple shaped battery and I will first on line to purchase that phone). These benefits almost wholly benefit the manufacturer for either publicity or cost effective reasons.

On the other hand you have removable batteries. While not quite as cost effective as sealing, it allows for the swapping of batteries. This allows for an instant "recharge" which can not be achieved with sealed phones. This lengthens the life the phone and batteries as well. If the phone is acting up, removing the battery can be used as a quick restart. As I had noted, it negates the possibility of forcing a too-large battery into the case due to tolerance restrictions. Internal components can also be easily accessed.

Build quality and phone durability is now negligible between major manufacturers. Waterproofing can be incorporated into both sealed and removable battery devices. Battery sizes could also be negated slightly with advancing battery technology, power packs, Quick/Fast charging technology, etc. Wireless charging can be incorporated into removable battery devices as well. Devices can be made equally as thin with either method. These features can be negated.

From my own observations, you are doing exactly what you said we shouldn't be doing: weighing the pros/cons from behind the veil of your own biases.