Is it stealing?

[kentusmc]

Yes, actually I am.

Lol I'm going to school for it right now!

 

[kentusmc]

The fact is that tethering does not create any more physical connections (nodes) to the towers themselves. There is still only one ip address assigned to your phone and all other connections through the phone are handled by the phone itself through dhcp. This is the same as using a wireless router at home. Unless you are suggesting that each cell tower does not have the bandwidth to support a lot of people tethering. In which case I would argue tethering is still using the same 3g connection you use to browse (do whatever) on your phone that we pay to have unlimited use of.

Going off the fact that it is the phones IP address that is hitting the towers and not the tethered device, one could stand to reason that it is the phones data no matter what and isn't any different. People like myself can rack up large amounts of data usage tethered or not by streaming content to the device. Data theft is a term made up by the carriers to make more money, and does not reflect how the network/internet protocols actually work.

 

[Chrisy]

I used an app called Tether on may Blackberry to tether. Didn't use it much, only when needed. Always stayed under 2 GB.

I haven't tethered using my Android because my POS computer is too slow.

I voted for, " I don't care." If there's an app available, I'll use it to tether.

The Tether app that I had for my Blackberry is sold in the VZW branded app store. I'm pretty sure they're aware of it.

Either way, doesn't bother me. Is it a breach of TOS, yes clearly. If you choose to tether, you accept the risks of a breached contract whatever that may be. Illegal, no. Stealing and morality aren't really part of it.

 

[.46caliber]

Strictly as a matter of principal: I pay for an unlimited data connection between my phone and VZW, what I do with that data is up to me. Verizon provides the exact same service to me whether I use 5GB of data on my DX or 5GB of data between my DX and tethering to my netbook. They need to be careful about using a word like "unlimited." No limits, that's what the word means. If I'm paying for an "unlimited" connection, by definition, there should be no limits or restrictions to what I can do with it.

My ISP bill at home is the same every month. Whether I use my internet connection for 1 computer or I use that connection for a desktop, couple of laptops, a netbook, a DVR, Blu-Ray and my Droid X. It makes no difference. Both my ISP and VZW are providing me with an internet service. VZW's network is more expensive to run and maintain, but I'm paying $30 per device for our 3 DXs. I pay one flat fee for my home internet that's less than $90.

If Verizon was giving me something extra when I pay for a tethering package, OK. Essentially what they do is lock a feature that is built into Android. They didn't write the software, they just disable it. Then they charge me a fee to unlock a feature that was already there that they locked to make more money.

Is free tethering stealing? No. Is it a breach of contract? I guess, I haven't read my contract in that detail.

All this being said, it's not a big concern for me as I don't have the need to tether anything to my DX. I will be irritated if they come after all root users because some break contract rules and free tether.

 

[deletion]

Wait so is it illegal to USB tether?

 

[Olsen]

If Verizon was giving me something extra when I pay for a tethering package, OK. Essentially what they do is lock a feature that is built into Android. They didn't write the software, they just disable it. Then they charge me a fee to unlock a feature that was already there that they locked to make more money.

My feelings exactly. I've been holding a grudge against Verizon on this issue since I owned a Motorola Razr. The phone comes with the ability to play MP3s, but VZW disables it so they can charge you for THEIR music service. I had to spend 3 hours writing scripts for my phone to unlock a feature that was built in to begin with.

I do not have a problem with Verizon wanting to charge for tethering; I DO have a problem with penalizing everyone because a few violated their TOS.

All I know is that if I experience data throttling (or worse) because I am rooted, I will be breaking my contract and going to another carrier.


P.S. Seems we have a few network Admins-in-training here, myself included!

 

[Chrisy]

It definitely is a breach of contract because although we have unlimited data, the contract we all signed specifies that tethering is against TOS. It's pretty cut and dry.

As far as I know if VZW were to look into your data usage deeper they could tell you're tethering because the packets of data are much larger than if using the device data.
Still, like I said, I don't care. I will tether if I need to. Hopefully VZW will only go after those that use an extraordinary amount of data per session, like downloading videos on a Pc.

Probably why we're getting teired data soon. You use way more data tethering than just using device data. I'm sure they want to stop that.

 

[ottscay]

None of these options are correct; it's NOT stealing, it's breach of contract. You pay VZW for unlimited data, but you also sign a contract saying you won't run unauthorized programs that access their network (i.e. unofficial tethering). You are breaking the contract you signed so they have the right to terminate it and collect the early termination fee (which you also agreed to when you signed).

Contract law has nothing to do with right or wrong here, it's just that you made certain agreements and if you don't hold up your end of the bargain VZW can elect to take measures to stop you.

Why do people keep putting this into the wrong context?

 

[Chrisy]

None of these options are correct; it's NOT stealing, it's breach of contract. You pay VZW for unlimited data, but you also sign a contract saying you won't run unauthorized programs that access their network (i.e. unofficial tethering). You are breaking the contract you signed so they have the right to terminate it and collect the early termination fee (which you also agreed to when you signed).

Contract law has nothing to do with right or wrong here, it's just that you made certain agreements and if you don't hold up your end of the bargain VZW can elect to take measures to stop you.

Why do people keep putting this into the wrong context?

This is what I said in my posts. agreed.

 

[Ricky Babalu]

Isn't rooting also a breach of contract?

 

[gbororats]

I think that since verizon offers pay services like mobile hotspots and usb devices specifically to use for computers, that this does constitute stealing. They offer a product that serves the same function and it is being bypassed for free when you use your phone.

Pay for a mobile hotspot for your PC, then use wifi to connect your phone to that.

 

[kentusmc]

The carriers are calling it "data theft", so I believe stealing is applicable.

 

[wildman]

Lets say this simply, if the company supplies a option to access a service and you are using it without paying for it, this is stealing. And as for the argument about paying for unlimited data plan, the contract state clearly that this is for service on the device..

Example: If you go to a all you can eat buffet restaurant and you bring three friends, would you complain because the restaurant made your friends pay also because you feel that they can eat from you?

This is why we are loosing all the good plans, people want to stretch the words as they see fit, when you signed the contract it was clear that the plans the company supplied was for the devices access, they did not give you a access card also for your laptop so you knew the laptop wasn't in plan. Why do so many want things free when they know they are doing something that they shouldn't and then get mad when it gets taken away?

 

[Chrisy]

Rooting voids your warranty, yes. I see tethering for free the same as downloading Mp3s for free or file sharing. I do it once in a while, not for profit and I'm ok with it.

If you want to call it stealing, go ahead. I'm ok with that too. I'm a thinking person so I have my own standards and morals that I live by. As long as I'm ok with them that's all that matters.

I do think that those who tether high amounts of data caused tiered plans. Oh well, it happens.

I don't feel its wrong, I don't feel bad about it. I also wouldn't be mad if something happened. I don't tether now but when I did I knew the risks.

 

[.46caliber]

Lets say this simply, if the company supplies a option to access a service and you are using it without paying for it, this is stealing. And as for the argument about paying for unlimited data plan, the contract state clearly that this is for service on the device..

Example: If you go to a all you can eat buffet restaurant and you bring three friends, would you complain because the restaurant made your friends pay also because you feel that they can eat from you?

This is why we are loosing all the good plans, people want to stretch the words as they see fit, when you signed the contract it was clear that the plans the company supplied was for the devices access, they did not give you a access card also for your laptop so you knew the laptop wasn't in plan. Why do so many want things free when they know they are doing something that they shouldn't and then get mad when it gets taken away?

I don't buy the analogy to a buffet, unless you're allowing all your friends to tether. And even then, they still use the word "unlimited". That's why they call it an "all-YOU-can-eat buffet", not an "unlimited buffet". Go tit-for-tat and compare it to any other ISP.

If I go to a buffet, they don't care if I put my food on a plate, in a bowl or in a cup. Hell, I can take one of each dish on my tray and they won't say boo. If I want to use my phone, or my netbook or laptop to consume my "unlimited" data, that's my choice. My home ISP doesn't make me pay extra if my friends come over and connect to my Wi-Fi at home.

Breach of contract, yes. So they can cancel my service and there's not much I can do. Is it stealing and punishable as theft? I'd love to see 'em try it. I don't tether, but I think the carriers are despicable for what they're doing. Either quit calling it unlimited data and putting restrictions on it, or quit charging people extra to use their unlimited data in other ways.

For kicks and grins...

Unlimited - adjective

1.not limited; unrestricted; unconfined: unlimited trade.
2.boundless; infinite; vast: the unlimited skies.
3.without any qualification or exception; unconditional.

 

[kentusmc]

Breach of contract, yes. So they can cancel my service and there's not much I can do. Is it stealing and punishable as theft? I'd love to see 'em try it. I don't tether, but I think the carriers are despicable for what they're doing. Either quit calling it unlimited data and putting restrictions on it, or quit charging people extra to use their unlimited data in other ways.

For kicks and grins...

Unlimited - adjective

1.not limited; unrestricted; unconfined: unlimited trade.
2.boundless; infinite; vast: the unlimited skies.
3.without any qualification or exception; unconditional.

Thank you!

 

[Johnly]

I guess it really does come down to what moral compass you go by, and ones own interpretation of what verizon means by "unlimited" in the context they use the term, and what one considers "theft."

 

[Droid800]

I don't buy the analogy to a buffet, unless you're allowing all your friends to tether. And even then, they still use the word "unlimited". That's why they call it an "all-YOU-can-eat buffet", not an "unlimited buffet". Go tit-for-tat and compare it to any other ISP.

If I go to a buffet, they don't care if I put my food on a plate, in a bowl or in a cup. Hell, I can take one of each dish on my tray and they won't say boo. If I want to use my phone, or my netbook or laptop to consume my "unlimited" data, that's my choice. My home ISP doesn't make me pay extra if my friends come over and connect to my Wi-Fi at home.

Breach of contract, yes. So they can cancel my service and there's not much I can do. Is it stealing and punishable as theft? I'd love to see 'em try it. I don't tether, but I think the carriers are despicable for what they're doing. Either quit calling it unlimited data and putting restrictions on it, or quit charging people extra to use their unlimited data in other ways.

For kicks and grins...

Unlimited - adjective

1.not limited; unrestricted; unconfined: unlimited trade.
2.boundless; infinite; vast: the unlimited skies.
3.without any qualification or exception; unconditional.

Except you're missing the qualifier with your data use. Yes, it is unlimited. But it is ONLY unlimited ON the device. The data your phone uses is much less than the data your computer will use if you choose to tether. Yeah, its the same network. No, its not remotely the same usage.

 

[Droid800]

The terminology used in advertisements implies unlimited, yet it is limited therefore it is false advertising. And there isn't a single true 4G network in the world, that I know of, so once again its false advertising by the carriers. The only carrier that is half way honest about 4G is VZW because the say its 4G like, yet that isn't what is printed on the devices themselves.

It is not false advertising, and any argument that claims it is is false on its face. It is NOT limited. You can use as much data as you want to your heart's content. But you only pay for data use ON THE DEVICE. You do not pay for data use THROUGH the device as a hotspot.

 

[Droid800]

The fact is that tethering does not create any more physical connections (nodes) to the towers themselves. There is still only one ip address assigned to your phone and all other connections through the phone are handled by the phone itself through dhcp. This is the same as using a wireless router at home. Unless you are suggesting that each cell tower does not have the bandwidth to support a lot of people tethering. In which case I would argue tethering is still using the same 3g connection you use to browse (do whatever) on your phone that we pay to have unlimited use of.

You're talking about two separate things. Yes, its the same connection. But the amount of data your computer uses is going to be far greater than that of your handset.