View Poll Results: moving pieces of /system to sd-ext?

Voters
24. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'd be interested in it

    20 83.33%
  • I don't care about it at all

    1 4.17%
  • I think it's a bad idea

    3 12.50%
11-25-2012 06:41 PM
32 12
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  1. bigsupersquid's Avatar
    so, I've seen a few mentions of this but no real discussion.
    rave, bash, or question, as you prefer.

    in a nutshell, it's possible to modify or preempt init to mount the sd card before mounting the system partition.
    this would allow moving /system/app (and other space hogs) to the sd-ext partition, making install space and other possibilities potentially very large.
    you want a fast card (class 4 or higher) and you can't remove it while booted (except in recovery.)
    regular ics or jb for our device requires the card to boot anyway, and probably to run correctly as well, so it wouldn't be a huge change there.
    any thoughts/opinions?
    there's a poll, too.
    upconvert and glarepate like this.
    11-20-2012 07:27 PM
  2. bigsupersquid's Avatar
    the main pros seem obvious, increased storage for system apps and freeing the space they take up in NAND.
    the cons, as I've read, are several
    already mentioned, card can't be removed.
    card has to be better than stock for decent speed.
    ext2 has potential for data corruption in a crash.
    ext3 or ext4 can wear out your card with the journaling which helps prevent the ext2 problem with crashes.
    11-20-2012 07:37 PM
  3. A-android-B's Avatar
    I am way interested and I have an eight gig class 4 in my zv5 optimus v, I would be honored to test and report log cat screenshots error messages , what have you! Please hit me , knowing you if you even mentioned it you already have a test build rolling

    come to the dark side
    11-20-2012 08:17 PM
  4. A-android-B's Avatar
    And I was on a ubuntu forum and someone mentioned formatting to ext 4 but somehow disabling journaling to get all the speed improvements and such from ext 4 but be faster, use less power too

    come to the dark side
    11-20-2012 08:20 PM
  5. flapjack.fiasco's Avatar
    Definitely interested. Anything that keeps this little phone rolling a little longer.

    Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2
    upconvert likes this.
    11-20-2012 08:21 PM
  6. ThatGuyLurkin's Avatar
    Nice to see your still posting here. Seemed as if you were gone for along time.

    I'd be interested in seeing this, although I don't use SD-EXT swaps or whatever you wanna call it. :P
    11-20-2012 08:27 PM
  7. joemac84's Avatar
    Sounds good to me. I was initially opposed to this idea but, WTH. Why not try it andd see how it works
    11-20-2012 08:53 PM
  8. A-android-B's Avatar
    Anything2ext has worked good for me so far without any stability issues.I've been using an ext partition ever since the early days of Bobz cm9

    come to the dark side
    11-20-2012 09:02 PM
  9. upconvert's Avatar
    I would love to try something like that. It seems like if someone knew a little about mounting scripts, it would be easy enough to apply it to any of the billion roms for this phone as a simple proof of concept. I would absolutely test if someone could build that rom.

    Sent from my GT-P7310 using Android Central Forums
    11-20-2012 09:40 PM
  10. thewraith420's Avatar
    Ics runs well enough just using ext for apps and dalvik but I'd be interested to see what this concept could do for jb or in the future key lime?

    Tapatalk'n it from my Cold As Ice VM670 running LS670ZVJ firmware
    joemac84 likes this.
    11-21-2012 06:36 AM
  11. flapjack.fiasco's Avatar
    Ics runs well enough just using ext for apps and dalvik but I'd be interested to see what this concept could do for jb or in the future key lime?

    Tapatalk'n it from my Cold As Ice VM670 running LS670ZVJ firmware
    I still hold out hope that they're going to call it key lime, but that easter egg in JB insinuates something else.

    Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2
    11-21-2012 07:37 AM
  12. sgeoxd's Avatar
    This is done by using "writeback" as the data mode. Kernel documentation on the subject is available at http://kernel.org/doc/Documentation/...stems/ext4.txt

    Benchmarks usually show minimal difference between writeback and ordered, where some of the benefits of journaling can be retained with ordered. A few examples:
    Filesystem Benchmarks - Part I | FSI Product Blog
    https://natzo.com/doku.php?id=catego...nux:filesystem

    Using noatime, nodirtime, and disabling barriers can also improve performance. Found a link to instructions Android specific here: just another blog: ext4 disable journal
    upconvert, A-android-B and snobro like this.
    11-21-2012 09:07 AM
  13. adamhos's Avatar
    I would try
    Sounds like a very cool idea

    Sent from my LG-VM670 using Android Central Forums
    11-21-2012 09:56 AM
  14. thesaxphoner's Avatar
    I'm definitely interested, I tried doing this myself a while back but it didn't go well. I've got a 32gb class 10 so speed isn't a problem

    Sent from my LG-VM670 using Android Central Forums
    11-21-2012 10:31 AM
  15. flapjack.fiasco's Avatar
    I'm definitely interested, I tried doing this myself a while back but it didn't go well. I've got a 32gb class 10 so speed isn't a problem

    Sent from my LG-VM670 using Android Central Forums
    I've read previously that class 4 may in fact be better than class 10 in these situations, because they tend to have a faster random read/write speed as opposed to faster read and faster write speed. I could be wrong, but I think I read it in the context of booting a ROM straight off the sd-card.

    Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2
    11-22-2012 09:17 AM
  16. bigsupersquid's Avatar
    there's the "security issue," also, of whatever bits of system are moved to SD, being r/w rather than read only.

    while I haven't built anything yet, I was assessing whether anyone but me had info./desire on this.
    it'd most likely be easiest to move all of /system to the SD card rather than parts of it.

    the mod would most likely be a severely trimmed version of tasssadar's multirom which patches the ramdisk with preinit (mounts sd-ext) and init.rc tweak (mount system from sd-ext.)

    Not sure, but might well need a specialized recovery too, again tweaking tasssadar's work would probably be easiest.
    <edit> on the bright side, it could be a fakeflash recovery (thanks to koush, a fakeflash recovery runs from a zip in recovery but doesn't replace the installed recovery to do it,) so you could leave whatever recovery you like installed and just use the mod recovery when you need it.
    just thoughts so far, nothing concrete.

    and, sgeoxd put up a he**uva first post.
    snobro and flapjack.fiasco like this.
    11-22-2012 12:49 PM
  17. tvall's Avatar
    here's an idea. Put what would normally be on /system in a file on /sd-ext. you'll have to mount /sd-ext earlier in boot then mount the system image and you would have to modify a gapps installer, but installs would be copying a single file, and you can keep the system mounted ro.
    bigsupersquid likes this.
    11-22-2012 05:28 PM
  18. bigsupersquid's Avatar
    a loop-mounted filesystem?
    I don't remember if I got those to work in init.rc or not.
    but there is a squashfs loop-mount commented out in all the cyanogen init.rc's I've looked at, so it might well work as you say.
    Worth a shot if my current avenue gets too annoying, or as a cross-check with benchmarking to see which prevails.
    thanks for the input.
    11-22-2012 07:25 PM
  19. droiddekka's Avatar
    um.

    yes.
    11-22-2012 08:07 PM
  20. thesaxphoner's Avatar
    You could be right, I'm not sure. I know that I used to use a class 2 and bobz cm10 worked fine on it but when I went to this all my apps that were on /sd-ext worked way better than before. Mine is also UHS-1 but I don't think the v can handle that.



    Sent from my LG-VM670 using Android Central Forums
    11-23-2012 12:13 AM
  21. bigsupersquid's Avatar
    after much wankiness, I am running bobz cm10 completely from a class 4 16 GB card using tasssadar's multirom.
    had to install it to NAND and SD from zip, and then manually copy it from /system, /data, and /cache to the card after a first boot using ADB in recovery.
    multirom is not very happy with it, for some reason /system gets remounted r/o somewhere after init.rc runs, and when /system is made r/o it remounts the rest of /sd-ext r/o as well. so later in the boot from sd, I have to use adb shell to remount /system as r/w.
    however, it is using the full size Gapps, market works, and I installed all the stock live wallpapers I could find to /system/app just for fun (I found 5, black hole, phase beam, nexus, bubbles, and water.)
    I'm poking around at it now testing... I just remember the ril data glitches annoyed me in this rom last time I tried it.
    11-23-2012 12:17 PM
  22. Encerspay45's Avatar
    Great idea.
    11-23-2012 01:52 PM
  23. glarepate's Avatar
    a loop-mounted filesystem?
    I don't remember if I got those to work in init.rc or not.
    but there is a squashfs loop-mount commented out in all the cyanogen init.rc's I've looked at, so it might well work as you say.
    Worth a shot if my current avenue gets too annoying, or as a cross-check with benchmarking to see which prevails.
    thanks for the input.
    Would that just require a kernel with the loop driver already in it rather than being loaded during the init process? Just guessing ...

    I am running the mirage 2.6.32.9-073012 kernel in my ROM:

    the loop driver isn't being loaded as a module:

    # cat /proc/modules
    # [null output]



    # cat /proc/filesystems
    nodev sysfs
    nodev rootfs
    nodev bdev
    nodev proc
    nodev cgroup
    nodev tmpfs
    nodev sockfs
    nodev pipefs
    nodev anon_inodefs
    nodev inotifyfs
    nodev devpts
    ext3
    ext2
    ext4
    nodev ramfs
    vfat
    yaffs
    yaffs2


    There could easily be a reason why it isn't normally included in the kernel and I wouldn't know.

    But perhaps other kernels include the loop driver.
    11-23-2012 03:33 PM
  24. tvall's Avatar
    All the kernels I've seen support loop if I remember correctly.

    I know that loop mounting /data works. I once had my /data in a luks container. Had to modify the init.rc a lot to get it to work, but it worked well.
    11-23-2012 04:02 PM
  25. bigsupersquid's Avatar
    I also believe loop is built in and enabled by default.
    Code:
    ls /dev/block/
    and look at all the loop devices.
    thekraven's CAI with virgin patch runs nice off sd like Bobz cm10, with the same weirdness about remounting /system r/w through adb to get boot to complete.
    and removed the a2sd scripts from init.d since it's already using the sd-ext for /data and dalvik.
    11-23-2012 07:05 PM
32 12

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