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    Cool Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Hi all, I posted this at AppleInsider Forums and it's probably going to be deleted soon, but here you go... All the reasons why Apple is till Number 1! Number 1! Number 1! (If you don't get the sarcasm here please read through once again)

    Basically, wherever you look, and particularly in 2013, you will see all pro-Apple comments take this form. Please contribute!

    "Let's talk returns."

    "So what is the point of selling more when profits are negligible."

    "After the initial "trying all the Kindle features" wears off, people will use it just as an e-reader. Meanwhile, the iPad and iPad mini are used for so much more."

    "Let's talk margins"

    "I see these, and then the next day, someone posts a completely opposite statistic says something else entirely"

    "Even for just the US and Canadian markets that's lower than I would have expected for such a low cost device that is so popular on Amazon's rankings"

    "These numbers are still BEFORE Apple released unlocked phones and got their production up to speed"

    "Plus a lot of the phones sold weren't activated until December after people opened up their Christmas presents and activated them"

    "I was never too worried about Apple "losing" to Android"

    "Many of these Kindle users will eventually end up with an iPad"

    "Even if people realize they made a mistake and end up buying an iPad, they won't throw away their competing tablets, but hand them off to their kids or make gifts"

    "Until Apple and the others release valid REAL AUTHENTIC numbers, then these numbers are meaningless."

    "I don't think it really matters where you rank on a chart like that"

    "They make an obscene amount of money despite selling 5 TIMES fewer phones than the next spot on that chart. At that point... who cares if the other guys sell more?"

    "Apple doesn't sell cheap phones"

    "That's a market Apple neither wants nor needs"

    "Apple is still the billion dollar underdog holding the #2 spot"

    "Technically [non-high-end Android] are smartphones, however from a user perspective they are often only used as feature phones"

    "Apple is gonna continue to increase as HTC gets bought out"

    "It would not surprise me. Samsung android phones are significantly cheaper than Apple's."

    "But iPhones are pretty darn popular in the US"

    "With their 5 year old goal (yes, 5 year) of 1% global market share this US share certainly is, not too shabby"

    "Android's market share growth has apparently stalled out faster than expected"

    "I do not think that any device running Android should be labeled as a smartphone"

    "The App Store pays out so much more $$$ than Google Play"

    "Basically it's a report intended to woo potential iPad advertisers to use their ad network."

    "The only data that matters is sales data so let's see your numbers Amazon, Samsung."

    "Why posting a title that makes people think that Apple is selling LESS than it was, when they can barely meet demand?"

    "So is it lower because iPad sales are down or because everyone else is up and thus the total market that this is a percent of is up."

    "Data to exploit the ignorant."

    "My local bookstore discourages the Kindle because of Amazon's exclusive access to book sales on the Kindle. Why do you think they are dumping them so cheaply?"

    "iPad users were busy having intercourse with people they gave iPads to" <-- WTF?

    "With 86% of the market and other manufacturers releasing any competing product, the only way to go is down"

    "The moment the novelty wears off, most those folks will probably realize that it's a crippled iPad."

    "These numbers are meaningless"

    "As the market grows in overall size we'll see an interesting battle for second place"

    "Of course this is going to happen over the holiday week. Everyone got shiny new presents that they're playing with."

    "Obviously the data is of very limited use"

    "How many people are still making do with something that isn't an iPad? Give it a few weeks and they'll stop using their "also ran" tablet that someone bought them thinking it's the right one or they bought because it was cheap."
    Last edited by sr2012; 01-04-2013 at 04:16 AM.
  2. #2  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post
    Hi all, I posted this at AppleInsider Forums and it's probably going to be deleted soon, but here you go... All the reasons why Apple is till Number 1! Number 1! Number 1! (If you don't get the sarcasm here please read through once again)

    Basically, wherever you look, and particularly in 2013, you will see all pro-Apple comments take this form. Please contribute!

    "Let's talk returns."

    "So what is the point of selling more when profits are negligible."

    "After the initial "trying all the Kindle features" wears off, people will use it just as an e-reader. Meanwhile, the iPad and iPad mini are used for so much more."

    "Let's talk margins"

    "I see these, and then the next day, someone posts a completely opposite statistic says something else entirely"

    "Even for just the US and Canadian markets that's lower than I would have expected for such a low cost device that is so popular on Amazon's rankings"

    "These numbers are still BEFORE Apple released unlocked phones and got their production up to speed"

    "Plus a lot of the phones sold weren't activated until December after people opened up their Christmas presents and activated them"

    "I was never too worried about Apple "losing" to Android"

    "Many of these Kindle users will eventually end up with an iPad"

    "Even if people realize they made a mistake and end up buying an iPad, they won't throw away their competing tablets, but hand them off to their kids or make gifts"

    "Until Apple and the others release valid REAL AUTHENTIC numbers, then these numbers are meaningless."

    "I don't think it really matters where you rank on a chart like that"

    "They make an obscene amount of money despite selling 5 TIMES fewer phones than the next spot on that chart. At that point... who cares if the other guys sell more?"

    "Apple doesn't sell cheap phones"

    "That's a market Apple neither wants nor needs"

    "Apple is still the billion dollar underdog holding the #2 spot"

    "Technically [non-high-end Android] are smartphones, however from a user perspective they are often only used as feature phones"

    "Apple is gonna continue to increase as HTC gets bought out"

    "It would not surprise me. Samsung android phones are significantly cheaper than Apple's."

    "But iPhones are pretty darn popular in the US"

    "With their 5 year old goal (yes, 5 year) of 1% global market share this US share certainly is, not too shabby"

    "Android's market share growth has apparently stalled out faster than expected"

    "I do not think that any device running Android should be labeled as a smartphone"

    "The App Store pays out so much more $$$ than Google Play"

    "Basically it's a report intended to woo potential iPad advertisers to use their ad network."

    "The only data that matters is sales data so let's see your numbers Amazon, Samsung."

    "Why posting a title that makes people think that Apple is selling LESS than it was, when they can barely meet demand?"

    "So is it lower because iPad sales are down or because everyone else is up and thus the total market that this is a percent of is up."

    "Data to exploit the ignorant."

    "My local bookstore discourages the Kindle because of Amazon's exclusive access to book sales on the Kindle. Why do you think they are dumping them so cheaply?"

    "iPad users were busy having intercourse with people they gave iPads to" <-- WTF?

    "With 86% of the market and other manufacturers releasing any competing product, the only way to go is down"

    "The moment the novelty wears off, most those folks will probably realize that it's a crippled iPad."

    "These numbers are meaningless"

    "As the market grows in overall size we'll see an interesting battle for second place"

    "Of course this is going to happen over the holiday week. Everyone got shiny new presents that they're playing with."

    "Obviously the data is of very limited use"

    "How many people are still making do with something that isn't an iPad? Give it a few weeks and they'll stop using their "also ran" tablet that someone bought them thinking it's the right one or they bought because it was cheap."
    And most of this is true.
    Thanked by:
    Ry 
    Ry likes this.
  3. #3  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post
    "So what is the point of selling more when profits are negligible."
    Classic. My favorite comments are like this... Not sure why users would tout their phone as having the largest profit margins in the industry. Does this not mean you are paying more money for less? I know patents and such can be involved, but hardly a thing to tout by the end user.
  4. #4  
    Ry
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    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Apple is not number one in worldwide smartphone sales.

    Apple's iOS not number one in worldwide smartphone OS market share.

    So what?

    Posted via Android Central App
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    Chetan Takyar likes this.
  5. #5  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzyclonecattleman View Post
    Classic. My favorite comments are like this... Not sure why users would tout their phone as having the largest profit margins in the industry. Does this not mean you are paying more money for less? I know patents and such can be involved, but hardly a thing to tout by the end user.
    Umm the iPhone does not have "less"
    Thanked by:
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    Ry likes this.
  6. #6  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chetan Takyar View Post
    Umm the iPhone does not have "less"
    Umm technically yes it does. I will give you style is equal and only with the 5 equal material and better for certain ecosystems, but you can't have it both ways (simplicity and more).
    Less features
    Less functionality
    Less Customization
    Less Specs

    and yes what I was saying "less bang for the buck" because those $$$ go elsewhere.
  7. #7  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    I am not an Apple fan but reading this made me feel stupid.

    Posted via the mystical forest creatures that power this Nexus 4.
    » Tom Fairclough «
    » Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae «
    » I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune «
    Thanked by 3:
    Chetan Takyar likes this.
  8. #8  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzyclonecattleman View Post
    Umm technically yes it does. I will give you style is equal and only with the 5 equal material and better for certain ecosystems, but you can't have it both ways (simplicity and more).
    Less features
    Less functionality
    Less Customization
    Less Specs

    and yes what I was saying "less bang for the buck" because those $$$ go elsewhere.
    Umm Apples ecosystem destroys Google also specs don't matter if my iPhone is just as smooth if not smoother then my Nexus 4-with half the specs.

    Posted via Android Central App
  9. #9  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chetan Takyar View Post
    Umm Apples ecosystem destroys Google also specs don't matter if my iPhone is just as smooth if not smoother then my Nexus 4-with half the specs.

    Posted via Android Central App
    I choose my own ecosystem of the best of everything and that destroys Apples.
    Sorry specs mean something...it allows you to do more.
  10. #10  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzyclonecattleman View Post
    I choose my own ecosystem of the best of everything and that destroys Apples.
    Sorry specs mean something...it allows you to do more.
    How does it allow you to do more?

    Posted via Android Central App
  11. #11  

    Default Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzyclonecattleman View Post
    Umm technically yes it does. I will give you style is equal and only with the 5 equal material and better for certain ecosystems, but you can't have it both ways (simplicity and more).
    Less features
    Less functionality
    Less Customization
    Less Specs

    and yes what I was saying "less bang for the buck" because those $$$ go elsewhere.
    And also, less issues that I need to contend with.

    And this post is an example of why context is important to any given discussion. Yes, we do make those points when explaining why we use apple products the way we do, and there is actually more truth behind those statements than otherwise seem.

    Well, most of them anyways. Some, I have no idea who in their right minds would say them with a straight face.

    I will be posting my own elaborations on how I feel each point is relevant over the day, as and when my schedule allows. Stay tuned.
  12. #12  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    1) Market Share

    Apple's business model is ultimately very different from Google's. The latter is in ads, and since android is a platform to get users into their ecosystem, it makes sense that market share would be directly correlated with its success and consequently, profitability.

    Conversely, Apple is in hardware sales, so hard profits matter more. If market share were the only thing which mattered, why are so many developers choosing to release apps and accessories for iOS devices first?

    So who is winning? My answer is both, because each has their own metric for success, and each is not meaningful when applied to the other party.
    Chad Davis7 likes this.
  13. #13  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    2) Usage numbers.

    This is not entirely baseless. iOS devices still rank high in usage figures, despite being outsold 4:1. What's causing these disproportionate numbers? Are iPad owners somehow using their tablets 10 times more frequently than android tablet owners to compensate?

    Not to mention that Apple is pretty much the only company whose shipped figures really mean devices sold. For other companies, shipped simply means "left the factory", not necessarily sold to consumers. Remember that in an earlier lawsuit, Samsung was found to have been inflating their sales numbers for their tablets (read: channel stuffing).

    I suspect there is a bit more truth to this statement than detractors are willing to admit.
  14. #14  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    3) On profits and making "cheap devices"

    I have nothing against the poor. I don't consider myself rich either (getting by as a teacher here).

    That said, the reality is that businesses are (no surprise) in the business of making money. And truth is that apple products, like any other item in sale, costs money. You need money for processor design, maintaining services, shipping, OS design, R&D and so on. Even more so when you want to put out a great product.

    That's precisely the problem with the PC industry. A lack of ability to differentiate themselves have led to price wars and fairly uniform products (and copying Apple's designs).

    Selling products at a profit is not being elitist. It's simply business 101.

    Conversely, Google can afford to release inexpensive hardware because they expect to eventually earn it back from the consumer in ads. If you want to be pedantic, the flagship phones from companies like Samsung aren't exactly cheap either.

    On a tangent, I buy apple products not because I gain some cheap thrill from knowing I have helped boost their bottom line, but because they work great for me (which is another discussion for another day, if we ever get there). So yes, I believe I am getting value for my money.
    Chad Davis7 likes this.
  15. #15  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    4) Specs

    I have always been curious as to what sort of tasks are being run on Android smartphones that require 2-3gb of RAM and quad-core processors, considering that the majority of those tasks don't seem any more complex than what I do on my iphone. The iphone's A7 chip outperforms Snapdragon despite having just 2 cores and a lower clock speed, and mobile applications generally aren't optimised for such powerful hardware anyways.

    People often rattle off a long laundry list of features that Android smartphones have, and then wonder why people pay more for an iphone with fewer features. The crux of this issue here is that complexity is not a feature (or at least, not a feature that I, or milliions of other people like me, appreciate); simplicity is.

    It's a very easy mistake to make because complexity often looks like more, and people often associate getting more with getting more value for your money. However, the problem then comes when people are not getting more of what they want, but instead, more that they have to contend with.

    The iphone is fluid, intuitive, stable, responsive, and does everything I need a smartphone to do (and then some). In short, it just works.
    Last edited by abazigal; 10-16-2013 at 05:54 AM.
  16. #16  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    5) If I don't address any of the other points mentioned in the initial post, it's because I don't agree with them.
    Last edited by abazigal; 10-16-2013 at 05:59 AM.
  17. #17  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    6) I admit that I too find Appleinsider a bit of a nutcase. Their articles, while not entirely untrue, often have a very pro-Apple bias. I admit to having a guilty pleasure reading as DED gloats over Apple's victories (real or perceived) both in the past and present. Maybe it is because of too much exposure to anti-Apple bashing in other websites like Cnet or Engadget, but it really feels good. I imagine that must be why Android supporters do it so often.

    That said, I like to think of myself as open to feedback and criticism. Please do not hesitate to call out on points you don't agree with. I am sure we can all have a constructive and civil discussion together. In short, let's all get along.
    Last edited by abazigal; 10-16-2013 at 06:01 AM.
  18. #18  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chetan Takyar View Post
    How does it allow you to do more?

    Posted via Android Central App
    In an effort to make this post short as that is a question that would take two pages I will give my #1 thing...widgets... example one touch dial my wife.
    Probably the rest
  19. #19  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by abazigal View Post
    4) Specs

    I have always been curious as to what sort of tasks are being run on Android smartphones that require 2-3gb of RAM and quad-core processors, considering that the majority of those tasks don't seem any more complex than what I do on my iphone. The iphone's A7 chip outperforms Snapdragon despite having just 2 cores and a lower clock speed, and mobile applications generally aren't optimised for such powerful hardware anyways.

    People often rattle off a long laundry list of features that Android smartphones have, and then wonder why people pay more for an iphone with fewer features. The crux of this issue here is that complexity is not a feature (or at least, not a feature that I, or milliions of other people like me, appreciate); simplicity is.

    It's a very easy mistake to make because complexity often looks like more, and people often associate getting more with getting more value for your money. However, the problem then comes when people are not getting more of what they want, but instead, more that they have to contend with.

    The iphone is fluid, intuitive, stable, responsive, and does everything I need a smartphone to do (and then some). In short, it just works.
    I've worked with both and it is not more intuitive, try dialing a contact in iOS7 and then in android...the most basic function there is a difference in number of actions needed. Not debating it is more intuitive for you, just that it takes more effort for me to pull up a contact in iOS7 than in Android.
    Last edited by buzzyclonecattleman; 10-25-2013 at 07:29 PM.
  20. #20  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by abazigal View Post
    And also, less issues that I need to contend with.
    So you wouldn't want more features in your car, navigation, Bluetooth, etc, because it would just be more to contend with? I guess it is possible for some, and I understand the Zen way, but never would I pay more for less when it comes to electronics.
  21. #21  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzyclonecattleman View Post
    In an effort to make this post short as that is a question that would take two pages I will give my #1 thing...widgets... example one touch dial my wife.
    Probably the rest
    Ummm we were talking about how specs allow you to do more. The A7 beats the S800 in benchmarks therefore it has more potential right?
  22. #22  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chetan Takyar View Post
    Ummm we were talking about how specs allow you to do more. The A7 beats the S800 in benchmarks therefore it has more potential right?
    Yeah....... I'm going to get yelled at for this... But Apple makes good phones.
    problem is the software is hopelessly locked down.
    Try playing Pokémon emerald on am iPhone with a PS3 controller! Without jailbreak!

    Posted via my weird GT-P3113
  23. #23  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chetan Takyar View Post
    Umm Apples ecosystem destroys Google also specs don't matter if my iPhone is just as smooth if not smoother then my Nexus 4-with half the specs.

    Posted via Android Central App
    But the nexus 4 has more specs, my brothers low end device has more specs and the only thing wrong with it is built quality

    Posted via Android central app on my rooted LG Google Nexus 4
  24. #24  

    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlav78 View Post
    But the nexus 4 has more specs, my brothers low end device has more specs and the only thing wrong with it is built quality

    Posted via Android central app on my rooted LG Google Nexus 4
    Lol. You didn't read what I said did you? the iPhone 5S has a better proc then the Nexus 4 by miles. It also even beats the S800. So wrong. Cores and clock speeds don't make a chip set better.

    Posted via Android Central App
  25. #25  
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    Default Re: Rules Of The Apple Apologist [Work In Progress]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chetan Takyar View Post
    Ummm we were talking about how specs allow you to do more. The A7 beats the S800 in benchmarks therefore it has more potential right?
    Not with ios lol.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
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