06-24-2013 10:15 PM
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tools
  1. neonworm's Avatar
    If you know what I mean...

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    Lol.

    Posted via Android Central App
    06-13-2013 12:26 AM
  2. badbrad17's Avatar
    Thanks for this post. It was interesting in a few ways. I like that HTC is trying to listen to consumers. But I also found it interesting that all of the comments were pretty much disagreeing with their supposed data research. So either they interviewed people who are not their customers or the people who took the time to comment were not their customers. Which is it?

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    06-13-2013 02:03 AM
  3. Farish's Avatar
    Thanks for this post. It was interesting in a few ways. I like that HTC is trying to listen to consumers. But I also found it interesting that all of the comments were pretty much disagreeing with their supposed data research. So either they interviewed people who are not their customers or the people who took the time to comment were not their customers. Which is it?

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Their information probably came from anonymous usage statistics on their previous phones.

    About arguing with research data.

    Here is a classic example.

    End of last year a popular deal site released their application for IOS first before releasing an Android version. Also in releasing they only support IOS 6.0 and at the time no jailbreak existed for it.

    So complaints ensued, why aren't you supporting Android first it is the most popular OS. Why aren't you supporting IOS 6, I can't use your product because I don't to lose my jailbreak so I haven't upgraded yet. Android is a larger platform than IOS. Android dominants the mobile market, etc etc.

    They came out and responded that

    Their mobile traffic data shows that 2/3 of it is from IOS and 90 percent of that is from IOS 6. So they prioritized the IOS app first and were working quickly on the Android Version.

    People complained left and right that their data had to be wrong.
    There is no way that can be the case, Android is way too dominant etc. They were wrong and didn't understand their market.

    People tend to ignore facts or argue them when the facts don't support their perception. Data is data and yes it can be manipulated but when a major website is looking at analytics to make a decision, they are looking at cold hard truth.

    Even though HTC doesn't invest or can't invest as much as Samsung in mobile marketing, chances are what they have invested in analytics is accurate and dead on.
    Ry, Slender Troll, tgp and 2 others like this.
    06-13-2013 08:46 AM
  4. badbrad17's Avatar
    Their information probably came from anonymous usage statistics on their previous phones.

    About arguing with research data.

    Here is a classic example.

    End of last year a popular deal site released their application for IOS first before releasing an Android version. Also in releasing they only support IOS 6.0 and at the time no jailbreak existed for it.

    So complaints ensued, why aren't you supporting Android first it is the most popular OS. Why aren't you supporting IOS 6, I can't use your product because I don't to lose my jailbreak so I haven't upgraded yet. Android is a larger platform than IOS. Android dominants the mobile market, etc etc.

    They came out and responded that

    Their mobile traffic data shows that 2/3 of it is from IOS and 90 percent of that is from IOS 6. So they prioritized the IOS app first and were working quickly on the Android Version.

    People complained left and right that their data had to be wrong.
    There is no way that can be the case, Android is way too dominant etc. They were wrong and didn't understand their market.

    People tend to ignore facts or argue them when the facts don't support their perception. Data is data and yes it can be manipulated but when a major website is looking at analytics to make a decision, they are looking at cold hard truth.

    Even though HTC doesn't invest or can't invest as much as Samsung in mobile marketing, chances are what they have invested in analytics is accurate and dead on.
    I agree.

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    Slender Troll and Farish like this.
    06-13-2013 09:57 AM
  5. Superjudge's Avatar
    I think iOS 7 represents the gradual opening up of iOS. I don't mean open like like open source. That won't happen and shouldn't happen. I mean that the post Jobs Apple is trying to find the balance between user needs and user ease when before it seemed to be strictly the latter. I thought it was a much bolder change than I was expecting though with a lot of things to iron out before the fall. I care more about execution than innovation so I'll wait to see the final iOS build before deciding to buy the next iPhone or move on. I'll leave the debate about innovation to tech press who have escalated the industry wars to a professional sports league complete with teams, rabid fan bases, and owner personalities.
    06-13-2013 04:57 PM
  6. JeffDenver's Avatar
    I think iOS 7 represents the gradual opening up of iOS.
    It will never be as open as Android for one reason; they will never (ever) allow 3rd party app integration. They can't. Doing so would completely undermine their vision and the polish iOS is known for.

    I'll leave the debate about innovation to tech press who have escalated the industry wars to a professional sports league complete with teams, rabid fan bases, and owner personalities.
    Apple themselves are the ones who escalated. Apple are the ones who claimed everyone else ripped off their ideas (and not even features, but design). They are the ones suing everyone they can.

    If they have stopped doing that (and with iOS7, they really have no choice but to stop now...they borrowed so heavily from other OSs that they can no longer maintain the "OMG everyone is stealing my ideas" argument), then the war is over. Because you can't have a war with only one side. They already surrendered. iOS7 is their white flag.
    return_0 likes this.
    06-13-2013 05:06 PM
  7. Superjudge's Avatar
    It will never be as open as Android for one reason; they will never (ever) allow 3rd party app integration. They can't. Doing so would completely undermine their vision and the polish iOS is known for.


    Apple themselves are the ones who escalated. Apple are the ones who claimed everyone else ripped off their ideas (and not even features, but design). They are the ones suing everyone they can.

    If they have stopped doing that (and with iOS7, they really have no choice but to stop now...they borrowed so heavily from other OSs that they can no longer maintain the "OMG everyone is stealing my ideas" argument), then the war is over. Because you can't have a war with only one side. They already surrendered. iOS7 is their white flag.
    I think you missed the points in my post. In fact your second response is a reflection of exactly what I was saying.

    I was not equating the openness I see starting with iOS 7 with the openness on Android. I was comparing iOS 1-6 with 7 only and not cross platform. Again I see it as a beginning nod to more openness for the user. I don't think it's a coincidence that Tim Cook said he would consider deeper 3rd party integration though that it is not present in iOS 7. For example, I don't think it would be surprising if they would allow users a chance to select a default browser or mail client in the future. Simple things like that. I think they realize the smartphone user is smarter and some of the changes in 7 reflect that acknowledgment.

    I wasn't talking about actual legal wars either although all parties are guilty of suing each other repeatedly. It's not something that is new to the tech industry. Blaming Apple for this is a simple narrative created on the pages of tech blogs everywhere. That's was my point. It's like what 24hr cable news did to the real news. Tech blogs are doing the same with tech news.
    06-13-2013 05:53 PM
  8. JeffDenver's Avatar
    I don't think it would be surprising if they would allow users a chance to select a default browser or mail client in the future.
    That is never ever going to happen. Ever.

    (and if it ever did, that would be the true death of iOS)

    I wasn't talking about actual legal wars either although all parties are guilty of suing each other repeatedly.
    No, they are not. Apple is the one instigating...all the other lawsuits are retaliatory. Once Apple stops suing, you will see all instances of new lawsuits vanish as if they were a dream.

    I have seen iUsers try to make the argument that these lawsuits are coming from both sides, and that is ridiculous IMO. Google and Samsung and whoever would not be suing Apple if they had not started it first. There is a really good reason that Apple has a reputation as being sue happy.

    Blaming Apple for this is a simple narrative created on the pages of tech blogs everywhere. That's was my point. It's like what 24hr cable news did to the real news. Tech blogs are doing the same with tech news.
    I guess we will find out now, huh? Lets watch and see how many new lawsuits there are in the next year. I am predicting a STEEP decline.
    Slender Troll likes this.
    06-13-2013 06:00 PM
  9. Ry's Avatar
    No, they are not. Apple is the one instigating...all the other lawsuits are retaliatory. Once Apple stops suing, you will see all instances of new lawsuits vanish as if they were a dream.
    How sure are you about this?

    AFAIK -

    Nokia sued Apple regarding the wireless technology on the iPhone.
    Kodak sued Apple (and RIM) regarding imaging on the iPhone (and BlackBerry devices).
    Motorola sued Apple regarding the iPhone.

    To have a blanket statement that says Apple is instigating and all other lawsuits are retaliatory is incorrect.
    Aquila and JHBThree like this.
    06-13-2013 06:15 PM
  10. Superjudge's Avatar
    That is never ever going to happen. Ever.

    (and if it ever did, that would be the true death of iOS)


    No, they are not. Apple is the one instigating...all the other lawsuits are retaliatory. Once Apple stops suing, you will see all instances of new lawsuits vanish as if they were a dream.

    I have seen iUsers try to make the argument that these lawsuits are coming from both sides, and that is ridiculous IMO. Google and Samsung and whoever would not be suing Apple if they had not started it first. There is a really good reason that Apple has a reputation as being sue happy.


    I guess we will find out now, huh? Lets watch and see how many new lawsuits there are in the next year. I am predicting a STEEP decline.
    Why would being able to choose a default browser be the true death of iOS?

    There are more companies than just Apple who sue other companies. Like I said that is the easy narrative and it brings people to sites to read the story. Nokia and Kodak both sued Apple without being sued first. Not all suits are unwarranted. Not all involve Apple vs or vs Apple. There were suits between tech companies before Apple sued Samsung. Like in any industry, lawsuits are happening between competitors all the time. Just because you read about high profile ones on a site doesn't mean that is a reflection of the only suits or players in an industry. I guess we should probably end this debate or take it to another thread as its become very off topic here.
    Ry likes this.
    06-13-2013 06:21 PM
  11. JHBThree's Avatar
    That is never ever going to happen. Ever.

    (and if it ever did, that would be the true death of iOS)


    No, they are not. Apple is the one instigating...all the other lawsuits are retaliatory. Once Apple stops suing, you will see all instances of new lawsuits vanish as if they were a dream.

    I have seen iUsers try to make the argument that these lawsuits are coming from both sides, and that is ridiculous IMO. Google and Samsung and whoever would not be suing Apple if they had not started it first. There is a really good reason that Apple has a reputation as being sue happy.


    I guess we will find out now, huh? Lets watch and see how many new lawsuits there are in the next year. I am predicting a STEEP decline.
    As Ry said, Motorola and Nokia sued apple first. So, there's that...

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    06-13-2013 08:13 PM
  12. CR6's Avatar
    The whole Android vs Apple argument is so 2010 and has been played out. Here's a concept, buy the phone you want and move on with your life. People should be happy they have a choice, regardless of limits or open source.
    End of story.
    Moderator, you can close the thread now.

    tap'n
    Slender Troll likes this.
    06-13-2013 09:58 PM
  13. avenuePad's Avatar
    IOS 7 makes me want to play Candy Crush whilst blasting Nicki Minaj. That's not a good thing.


    Sent from my Nexus 4 using AC Forums mobile app
    Slender Troll and badbrad17 like this.
    06-13-2013 10:38 PM
  14. Farish's Avatar
    IOS 7 makes me want to play Candy Crush whilst blasting Nicki Minaj. That's not a good thing.


    Sent from my Nexus 4 using AC Forums mobile app
    Nothing wrong with Nicki Minaj, but Candy Crush, that's another story.
    badbrad17 likes this.
    06-14-2013 09:20 AM
  15. JeffDenver's Avatar
    The whole Android vs Apple argument is so 2010 and has been played out.
    It only seems that way because Android won a long time ago. But some people have not gotten it yet.

    Here's a concept, buy the phone you want and move on with your life.
    A better concept: Don't come to a phone forum and complain when people give opinions about phones. The thread title should have given you a really good indication of what was going to be discussed.
    CR6 and avenuePad like this.
    06-14-2013 09:55 AM
  16. JeffDenver's Avatar
    Why would being able to choose a default browser be the true death of iOS?
    Because IOS's appeal IMO has always been that it is pre-packaged. Everything is consistent. "It just works". Once you start allowing people to change stuff that consistency goes away.

    That is the strength of the closed model. Without that, iOS is basically a literal copy of Android, and Android will already be far ahead of them. There will be nothing left to distinguish them from the competition.

    There are more companies than just Apple who sue other companies.
    Apple sues the most, and sues over the stupidest things. Rounded corners on their cases? Square icons arranged into rows? They are the child on the playground going around grabbing all the toys from the other children screaming "Mine!".

    Not all suits are unwarranted.
    I have yet to see any from Apple that are warranted. At least not any related to design or features.
    badbrad17 likes this.
    06-14-2013 10:00 AM
  17. Superjudge's Avatar
    Because IOS's appeal IMO has always been that it is pre-packaged. Everything is consistent. "It just works". Once you start allowing people to change stuff that consistency goes away.

    That is the strength of the closed model. Without that, iOS is basically a literal copy of Android, and Android will already be far ahead of them. There will be nothing left to distinguish them from the competition.


    Apple sues the most, and sues over the stupidest things. Rounded corners on their cases? Square icons arranged into rows? They are the child on the playground going around grabbing all the toys from the other children screaming "Mine!".


    I have yet to see any from Apple that are warranted. At least not any related to design or features.
    You must be real proud of your team.
    06-14-2013 11:03 AM
  18. JeffDenver's Avatar
    You must be real proud of your team.
    I am certainly glad Android is there. It has made my life easier in a number of ways. It is an awesome tool.

    And I am equally happy that the closed model appears to be failing, purely for ideological reasons.
    06-14-2013 11:05 AM
  19. tgp's Avatar
    Moderator, you can close the thread now.

    tap'n
    Please don't, this has been highly entertaining!
    CR6 and avenuePad like this.
    06-14-2013 11:12 AM
  20. CR6's Avatar
    Agreed! I was just being facetious.

    tap'n
    tgp likes this.
    06-14-2013 11:35 AM
  21. Superjudge's Avatar
    I am certainly glad Android is there. It has made my life easier in a number of ways. It is an awesome tool.

    And I am equally happy that the closed model appears to be failing, purely for ideological reasons.
    Bust out the Bud Light bro!
    06-14-2013 12:10 PM
  22. anon5664829's Avatar
    I am certainly glad Android is there. It has made my life easier in a number of ways. It is an awesome tool.

    And I am equally happy that the closed model appears to be failing, purely for ideological reasons.
    Bull****. Android is not better then iOS. Just stop saying your opinion is fact.

    Posted via Android Central App
    06-19-2013 06:58 PM
  23. JeffDenver's Avatar
    Bull****. Android is not better then iOS.
    If it can do everything iOS does and more, it is better.
    06-21-2013 03:15 PM
  24. gollum18's Avatar
    Bull****. Android is not better then iOS. Just stop saying your opinion is fact.

    Posted via Android Central App
    When did he say his opinion is fact. Once again that's all it was, was an opinion. Just like your response to his statement is an opinion.

    Btw nice to see you again. I'd like to avoid another argument if we can please. I'm not up to it today

    Sprint GS3 Running TN's Msg and Chubbs
    badbrad17 likes this.
    06-21-2013 03:45 PM
  25. anon5664829's Avatar
    When did he say his opinion is fact. Once again that's all it was, was an opinion. Just like your response to his statement is an opinion.

    Btw nice to see you again. I'd like to avoid another argument if we can please. I'm not up to it today

    Sprint GS3 Running TN's Msg and Chubbs
    It's fine I'm in my phone right now. I dont wanna do long posts:P

    Posted via Android Central App
    Aquila and badbrad17 like this.
    06-21-2013 04:46 PM
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