07-15-2014 12:26 PM
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  1. Aquila's Avatar
    The only reason why Canada has free healthcare is because of the freaking high taxes. I think its 18% right now.

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    In total tax? Because ours is fed tax + medicare + health insurance premium and then thousands per year out of pocket. For the median income household, that is about 20-30% spent on taxes + healthcare.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    11-17-2013 08:53 PM
  2. alexlam24's Avatar
    In total tax? Because ours is fed tax + medicare + health insurance premium and then thousands per year out of pocket. For the median income household, that is about 20-30% spent on taxes + healthcare.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    There's a 18% tax on products and I think 30% on income.

    Sent from my HTC Xperia S4
    11-17-2013 10:09 PM
  3. Aquila's Avatar
    There's a 18% tax on products and I think 30% on income.

    Sent from my HTC Xperia S4
    That's pretty huge and thoroughly regressive. So much for socialism, 'eh? We get taxed for everything multiple times, but I don't feel like half of my income is going out the door to taxes and/or things covered by their taxes. Definitely feels more like a quarter of it.
    11-17-2013 10:11 PM
  4. alexlam24's Avatar
    That's pretty huge and thoroughly regressive. So much for socialism, 'eh? We get taxed for everything multiple times, but I don't feel like half of my income is going out the door to taxes and/or things covered by their taxes. Definitely feels more like a quarter of it.
    I remember going there for vacation in 08, mother of god was it expensive.

    Sent from my HTC Xperia S4
    11-17-2013 10:17 PM
  5. palandri's Avatar
    There's a 18% tax on products and I think 30% on income.
    Sales taxes in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Income taxes in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    11-17-2013 11:45 PM
  6. Mooncatt's Avatar
    The stupid part is assuming providers will deflate rather than pocketing the enormous profits coming their way.
    Since you and I have talked trucking before, do you remember what happened with deregulation?* That's basically the converse of what's happening with insurance and the ACA. Rates were no longer regulated and shipping lanes were no longer restricted to just the only companies that had authority for said lanes. Almost immediately shipping rates went down. The shipping companies couldn't have held rates up even if they wanted to thanks to relaxed regulations and greater competition.

    Now let's turn that back around to the topic at hand. At first, premiums will likely spike. Probably from the companies trying to make sure they don't loose money. After things are more settled (you have to admit things are still very turbulent and no one knows the end result of the law, what form it takes if it even remains standing, and its full effects on the markets), premiums will come down to their competitive normalcy. It still makes sense that rates will remain high, but for that rate increase to be related to the regulations and not greed if they do.

    *For those not familiar with trucking, "deregulation" refers to elimination of rules on who could run where and how much to charge. Not a complete deregulation of every aspect of the industry. Trust me, we're still plenty regulated where safety is concerned.
    11-18-2013 12:17 AM
  7. Tall Mike 2145's Avatar
    I'm really not convinced that any of this actually matters.

    The government implemented taxation that hitherto was unconstitutional. Everybody just pays it and thinks anyone who gainsays the laws, the IRS, the Amendment, etc., are a bunch of crazies.

    The government set us on the path of bad credit in the 70s with the Community Redevelopment Act. Clinton made it worse. Nobody in this country cares.

    The government took us progressively off the Gold Standard and now we have a currency that is absolutely valueless. Nobody cares, and in fact people think you're nuts when you say the currency should be backed by something.

    We were at war with the indigenous tribal nations on this continent for a couple centuries (Europe was at war before that) and the public supported the idea of Manifest Destiny.

    We almost had the Clipper Chip back in the early 90s, but fortunately it fell through. Meanwhile, Americans didn't care one bit about it, and would almost certainly have "just gone along with" whatever was pushed on them.

    We've been overthrowing governments since at least 1952 (Operation: Ajax) and have been quite willing to throw our weight around, make war and kill people. Nobody here cares about that, either, regardless if they have it pointed out to them or it becomes general public knowledge.

    We're upset one minute at companies one minute for using a company like Foxconn which drives many of its workers to mental and physical collapse and a number of them to suicide, but forget about it the next minute when that next shiny gizmo comes out and we've just gotta have one.

    Getting back to our government, it's been doing all these nasty things and colluding with other countries to do it, and also butchering men, women, and children in various countries, whether we're really at a state of war or not, and when Bradley Manning comes along and tells us all about it, sends us not just correspondence but also video footage, we call him a traitor, and stick his **** in jail.

    The person and organization who helped him to get this vetted information out so that we the U.S. ELECTORATE could hold our own government accountable have been impugned and maligned, and now Mr. Assange is permanently holed-up in an embassy in London for fear of his freedom and probably his life too should he make the unfortunate mistake of venturing too far from that little office.

    The government has been actively spying on us since at least the 50s, and in a much bigger way during the 70s and 80s, and then in the 90s we find out about Echelon, and the American public gets busy doing what they've always done best: not caring about it whatsoever. Now Ed Snowden comes along, tells us what our government has been doing to us, and we'd rather see him arrested and jailed (and probably executed too) than thank him for enlightening us.

    My point in going off on a tangent and mentioning all this stuff is that it goes to the point about none of this really mattering. Clearly nobody in this country is actually willing to do anything about anything, so why should it matter how bad Obamacare is? It's not like we're going to do much about it. And even if we manage to do a little bit, we'll just screw it up and then spend the next 50 years complaining about how bad things are, and of course how inevitable it is that they've gotten so bad and that there's really not much you can do because this is just how this stuff works.

    Forget about the fact that the only real reason we even need health insurance in this country at this point is because of the absurd prices of everything related to health care, probably none of which would be the case if natural market forces determined the prices we pay instead of a progressively deteriorating healthcare/health insurance system that forces prices up against all possible sense of reason.

    Again, we've got 37%+ unemployment in a nation which has un-backed currency, which can be pretended into existence to cover any and all needs (thank you John Maynard Keynes) so, again, I ask everyone in this thread: what does it matter?
    cdmjlt369 and mrsmumbles like this.
    11-18-2013 01:16 AM
  8. llamabreath's Avatar
    I'm really not convinced that any of this actually matters.

    The government implemented taxation that hitherto was unconstitutional. Everybody just pays it and thinks anyone who gainsays the laws, the IRS, the Amendment, etc., are a bunch of crazies.

    The government set us on the path of bad credit in the 70s with the Community Redevelopment Act. Clinton made it worse. Nobody in this country cares.

    The government took us progressively off the Gold Standard and now we have a currency that is absolutely valueless. Nobody cares, and in fact people think you're nuts when you say the currency should be backed by something.

    We were at war with the indigenous tribal nations on this continent for a couple centuries (Europe was at war before that) and the public supported the idea of Manifest Destiny.

    We almost had the Clipper Chip back in the early 90s, but fortunately it fell through. Meanwhile, Americans didn't care one bit about it, and would almost certainly have "just gone along with" whatever was pushed on them.

    We've been overthrowing governments since at least 1952 (Operation: Ajax) and have been quite willing to throw our weight around, make war and kill people. Nobody here cares about that, either, regardless if they have it pointed out to them or it becomes general public knowledge.

    We're upset one minute at companies one minute for using a company like Foxconn which drives many of its workers to mental and physical collapse and a number of them to suicide, but forget about it the next minute when that next shiny gizmo comes out and we've just gotta have one.

    Getting back to our government, it's been doing all these nasty things and colluding with other countries to do it, and also butchering men, women, and children in various countries, whether we're really at a state of war or not, and when Bradley Manning comes along and tells us all about it, sends us not just correspondence but also video footage, we call him a traitor, and stick his **** in jail.

    The person and organization who helped him to get this vetted information out so that we the U.S. ELECTORATE could hold our own government accountable have been impugned and maligned, and now Mr. Assange is permanently holed-up in an embassy in London for fear of his freedom and probably his life too should he make the unfortunate mistake of venturing too far from that little office.

    The government has been actively spying on us since at least the 50s, and in a much bigger way during the 70s and 80s, and then in the 90s we find out about Echelon, and the American public gets busy doing what they've always done best: not caring about it whatsoever. Now Ed Snowden comes along, tells us what our government has been doing to us, and we'd rather see him arrested and jailed (and probably executed too) than thank him for enlightening us.

    My point in going off on a tangent and mentioning all this stuff is that it goes to the point about none of this really mattering. Clearly nobody in this country is actually willing to do anything about anything, so why should it matter how bad Obamacare is? It's not like we're going to do much about it. And even if we manage to do a little bit, we'll just screw it up and then spend the next 50 years complaining about how bad things are, and of course how inevitable it is that they've gotten so bad and that there's really not much you can do because this is just how this stuff works.

    Forget about the fact that the only real reason we even need health insurance in this country at this point is because of the absurd prices of everything related to health care, probably none of which would be the case if natural market forces determined the prices we pay instead of a progressively deteriorating healthcare/health insurance system that forces prices up against all possible sense of reason.

    Again, we've got 37%+ unemployment in a nation which has un-backed currency, which can be pretended into existence to cover any and all needs (thank you John Maynard Keynes) so, again, I ask everyone in this thread: what does it matter?
    As the saying goes -
    Ignorance is bliss.

    That's why I've always thought, complacency will be our downfall.
    11-18-2013 01:29 AM
  9. alexlam24's Avatar
    I'm really not convinced that any of this actually matters.

    The government implemented taxation that hitherto was unconstitutional. Everybody just pays it and thinks anyone who gainsays the laws, the IRS, the Amendment, etc., are a bunch of crazies.

    The government set us on the path of bad credit in the 70s with the Community Redevelopment Act. Clinton made it worse. Nobody in this country cares.

    The government took us progressively off the Gold Standard and now we have a currency that is absolutely valueless. Nobody cares, and in fact people think you're nuts when you say the currency should be backed by something.

    We were at war with the indigenous tribal nations on this continent for a couple centuries (Europe was at war before that) and the public supported the idea of Manifest Destiny.

    We almost had the Clipper Chip back in the early 90s, but fortunately it fell through. Meanwhile, Americans didn't care one bit about it, and would almost certainly have "just gone along with" whatever was pushed on them.

    We've been overthrowing governments since at least 1952 (Operation: Ajax) and have been quite willing to throw our weight around, make war and kill people. Nobody here cares about that, either, regardless if they have it pointed out to them or it becomes general public knowledge.

    We're upset one minute at companies one minute for using a company like Foxconn which drives many of its workers to mental and physical collapse and a number of them to suicide, but forget about it the next minute when that next shiny gizmo comes out and we've just gotta have one.

    Getting back to our government, it's been doing all these nasty things and colluding with other countries to do it, and also butchering men, women, and children in various countries, whether we're really at a state of war or not, and when Bradley Manning comes along and tells us all about it, sends us not just correspondence but also video footage, we call him a traitor, and stick his **** in jail.

    The person and organization who helped him to get this vetted information out so that we the U.S. ELECTORATE could hold our own government accountable have been impugned and maligned, and now Mr. Assange is permanently holed-up in an embassy in London for fear of his freedom and probably his life too should he make the unfortunate mistake of venturing too far from that little office.

    The government has been actively spying on us since at least the 50s, and in a much bigger way during the 70s and 80s, and then in the 90s we find out about Echelon, and the American public gets busy doing what they've always done best: not caring about it whatsoever. Now Ed Snowden comes along, tells us what our government has been doing to us, and we'd rather see him arrested and jailed (and probably executed too) than thank him for enlightening us.

    My point in going off on a tangent and mentioning all this stuff is that it goes to the point about none of this really mattering. Clearly nobody in this country is actually willing to do anything about anything, so why should it matter how bad Obamacare is? It's not like we're going to do much about it. And even if we manage to do a little bit, we'll just screw it up and then spend the next 50 years complaining about how bad things are, and of course how inevitable it is that they've gotten so bad and that there's really not much you can do because this is just how this stuff works.

    Forget about the fact that the only real reason we even need health insurance in this country at this point is because of the absurd prices of everything related to health care, probably none of which would be the case if natural market forces determined the prices we pay instead of a progressively deteriorating healthcare/health insurance system that forces prices up against all possible sense of reason.

    Again, we've got 37%+ unemployment in a nation which has un-backed currency, which can be pretended into existence to cover any and all needs (thank you John Maynard Keynes) so, again, I ask everyone in this thread: what does it matter?
    Tl;Dr

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    11-18-2013 06:32 AM
  10. llamabreath's Avatar
    Tl;Dr

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    IRONIC
    If you took a couple minutes to read what Mike spent all that time thinking of and writing, you would realize that this is EXACTLY what he was talking about.
    palandri likes this.
    11-18-2013 06:48 AM
  11. palandri's Avatar
    IRONIC
    If you took a couple minutes to read what Mike spent all that time thinking of and writing, you would realize that this is EXACTLY what he was talking about.
    I have to agree and disagree Mike always makes very valid point. I don't always agree with all his point, but I understand his point of view. Heck, there are a lot of things that Ron Paul says that I agree with 100%, like his foreign policy.

    ...but it is long and people maybe turned off by the length. It covers a barrage of things, from the ACA to the gold standard to coups we have been involved with.
    Tall Mike 2145 and cdmjlt369 like this.
    11-18-2013 08:03 AM
  12. Aquila's Avatar
    I have to agree and disagree Mike always makes very valid point. I don't always agree with all his point, but I understand his point of view. Heck, there are a lot of things that Ron Paul says that I agree with 100%, like his foreign policy.

    ...but it is long and people maybe turned off by the length. It covers a barrage of things, from the ACA to the gold standard to coups we have been involved with.
    I'd say sometimes it takes more than 8 seconds to convey context

    But I'd agree with you, that there is a HUGE common ground where libertarian, progressive and conservative principles meet... and I think a lot of people could get on board with much of it, given a little bit of education and philosophical patience. Once we find out we mostly have the same goals and for many of the same reasons, there is a ton of room for debate, negotiation and acting like adults to actually get stuff done. Of course, none of that matters as long as politics is controlled by money, and not by people.
    11-18-2013 08:14 AM
  13. llamabreath's Avatar
    Tl;Dr

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    11-18-2013 10:52 AM
  14. Farish's Avatar
    And what will happen with all this.

    Nothing much will change, the Republicans will never have a super majority to overturn Obamacare. In 2016 Hiliary will run on the grounds that you had the other guy instead of her, let her fix all this guys messes.

    Republicans have too much in fighting and I don't know if a true identity will be out by 2016. And the guy I liked Huntsman, is too liberal for the Republican party.

    Only person I can really see pulling out of this strongly is Ryan because he was the leader in ending the shutdown and could come out as a person who can reach across the aisle out of this.
    11-18-2013 12:15 PM
  15. alexlam24's Avatar
    Doge pls

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    11-18-2013 06:34 PM
  16. Bratigan's Avatar
    Well it turns out the Obama Administration cooked the books on the employment numbers before the 2012 election so they could more
    easily win reelection. Just another scandal, but lets see who comes to his aid on this forum and tries to explain it away.

    When will enough be enough?
    11-19-2013 06:19 AM
  17. palandri's Avatar
    Can you link us to your source?
    11-19-2013 06:47 AM
  18. Bratigan's Avatar
    Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report | New York Post

    This was from the New York Post. I imagine others will follow.
    11-19-2013 07:11 AM
  19. palandri's Avatar
    I wouldn't put a lot of faith in an anonymous source who won't reveal his identity. If there's substance to it, Congress will investigate. If they don't, then there is no more substance to it than Obama's Kenya birth certificate.
    11-19-2013 07:26 AM
  20. llamabreath's Avatar
    Doge pls

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    11-19-2013 08:19 AM
  21. pappy53's Avatar
    Doge pls

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    Huh?

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
    11-19-2013 09:06 AM
  22. llamabreath's Avatar
    Well it turns out the Obama Administration cooked the books on the employment numbers before the 2012 election so they could more
    easily win reelection.
    I thought everybody knew that already, lol.
    11-19-2013 11:07 AM
  23. msndrstood's Avatar
    What's the point? Just to be flamed again and again. No thanks, I rode that train and disembarked.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    11-19-2013 11:20 AM
  24. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Why would he (Obama) leave these two words out of this historical speech?


    Obama Removes 'God' From Gettysburg Address
    palandri likes this.
    11-19-2013 11:23 AM
  25. msndrstood's Avatar
    You must be feeling better if you're posting in the Politics section.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    palandri and Live2ride883 like this.
    11-19-2013 11:28 AM
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