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  1. #26  

    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by kilofox View Post
    I want to get back to the subject.... why are people that are upset over the 2nd Amendment. Saying NOTHING about the gutting of the 4th and 6th amendment by the Patriot Act???

    Fourth Amendment Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Sixth Amendment Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel
    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

    Here is what is really crazy..... the Patriot Act is a reality. And nary a peep from the conservative population that is obsessed with protecting their 2nd amendment rights.

    I have asked myself over and over how conservatives view Obama in light of what his predecessor did:

    Bengahzi vs Iraq
    Gun Control vs 4th & 6th Amendment & The Patriot Act
    The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) vs Medicare Part D

    After much consideration I have found the answer:

    Although very unpopular Bush did everything he did legally. He went to congress before deploying troops to Iraq. Congress did not declare war but the enacted instead the Iraq War Resolution in 2002 which approved and FUNDED the Iraq invasion. This was done 100% legally and with support from congress from both parties.

    As far as I know Bengahzi was not approved or funded by congress.

    Mr. Obama does what he wants and does not care if its legal or not and gets praised for it. Bush did everything legally and although not popular is a more honorable man to me.

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  2. #27  
    backbeat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdicesare2002 View Post
    Mr. Obama does what he wants and does not care if its legal or not and gets praised for it. Bush did everything legally and although not popular is a more honorable man to me
    Who, in your young lifetime, suspended Habeas Corpus rights, including those of Americans?

    HINT: The guy you find "honorable" ... And the actions of whom retained the sole authority [via the Protect America Act] to determine what could be defined as "legal". An action Nixon could only fantasize about.

    Who, in your young lifetime, has restored Habeas Corpus rights, including those of Americans?

    HINT: The guy you find less than honorable.

    These are facts not in dispute.
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  3. Thread Author  Thread Author    #28  

    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdicesare2002 View Post
    Although very unpopular Bush did everything he did legally. He went to congress before deploying troops to Iraq. Congress did not declare war but the enacted instead the Iraq War Resolution in 2002 which approved and FUNDED the Iraq invasion. This was done 100% legally and with support from congress from both parties.

    As far as I know Bengahzi was not approved or funded by congress.

    Mr. Obama does what he wants and does not care if its legal or not and gets praised for it. Bush did everything legally and although not popular is a more honorable man to me.

    Sent from my Droid Razr Maxx!!
    Tell me what he (Obama) has done that is illegal..... please. The house republicans have been in power since he first took office in 2008... if he is doing illegal things, THEN WHY HAVENT THEY CHARGED HIM????

    The Resolution in 2002 was NEVER funded... he put it on the nation's credit card... as he, along with a republican congress, did with Medicare Part D. BTW... Medicare Part D (which was never paid for and put on the the nation's credit card) dwarfs... thats right, dwarfs Obama Care in costs.

    Where are the WMD's???? But this is war... and there is nothing that gets our patriotic dander up than a kick *** war. If you question the reason of going to war... well that's unpatriotic. Churchill warned us, "an exaggerated code of honor leading to the performance of utterly vain and unreasonable deeds should not be defended however fine it might look.

    The buck stops with the Commander in Chief.... I for one, will never let Bush off the hook for championing a war based on false intelligence.
  4. #29  

    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Who, in your young lifetime, suspended Habeas Corpus rights, including those of Americans?

    HINT: The guy you find "honorable" ... And the actions of whom retained the sole authority [via the Protect America Act] to determine what could be defined as "legal". An action Nixon could only fantasize about.

    Who, in your young lifetime, has restored Habeas Corpus rights, including those of Americans?

    HINT: The guy you find less than honorable.

    These are facts not in dispute.
    On 29 September 2006, the U.S. House and Senate approved the Military Commissions Act of 2006, a bill which suspended habeas corpus for any alien determined to be an "unlawful enemy combatant engaged in hostilities or having supported hostilities against the United States" Sounds to me congress did this not the President.

    However in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld (2004) the U.S. Supreme Court re-confirmed the right of every American citizen to access habeas corpus even when declared to be an enemy combatant. The Court affirmed the basic principle that habeas corpus could not be revoked in the case of a citizen. That says re-confirm not reinstate.

    So it would appear in my "young life" I learned how to research and read better then you. I wait your next argument .


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  5. #30  
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    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdicesare2002 View Post
    So it would appear in my "young life" I learned how to research and read better then you. I wait your next argument
    I'm still waiting for you to directly address my statement, as your response is nothing but a knee-jerk misdirection. And this time, please try to use your own words?

    The indisputable facts of which I stated are not partisan. They are simply true.
  6. #31  

    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by kilofox View Post
    Tell me what he (Obama) has done that is illegal..... please. The house republicans have been in power since he first took office in 2008... if he is doing illegal things, THEN WHY HAVENT THEY CHARGED HIM????

    The Resolution in 2002 was NEVER funded... he put it on the nation's credit card... as he, along with a republican congress, did with Medicare Part D. BTW... Medicare Part D (which was never paid for and put on the the nation's credit card) dwarfs... thats right, dwarfs Obama Care in costs.

    Where are the WMD's???? But this is war... and there is nothing that gets our patriotic dander up than a kick *** war. If you question the reason of going to war... well that's unpatriotic. Churchill warned us, "an exaggerated code of honor leading to the performance of utterly vain and unreasonable deeds should not be defended however fine it might look.

    The buck stops with the Commander in Chief.... I for one, will never let Bush off the hook for championing a war based on false intelligence.
    Hmm I do remember congress in June 2008 signing the 161.8 billion in new funds to continue fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for the following year, without timetables for withdrawing combat troops. I remember everyone being so upset there was no mention of bring troops home.

    Unfortunately no one told Congress they were not funding in, maybe you should have emailed them in 2008 so they would not publicly pass the fund and your statements would have been correct today.



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  7. Thread Author  Thread Author    #32  

    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdicesare2002 View Post
    On 29 September 2006, the U.S. House and Senate approved the Military Commissions Act of 2006, a bill which suspended habeas corpus for any alien determined to be an "unlawful enemy combatant engaged in hostilities or having supported hostilities against the United States" Sounds to me congress did this not the President.

    However in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld (2004) the U.S. Supreme Court re-confirmed the right of every American citizen to access habeas corpus even when declared to be an enemy combatant. The Court affirmed the basic principle that habeas corpus could not be revoked in the case of a citizen. That says re-confirm not reinstate.

    So it would appear in my "young life" I learned how to research and read better then you. I wait your next argument .


    Sent from my Droid Razr Maxx!!
    Boumediene v. Bush, 553 U.S. 723 (2008), On June 12, 2008, Justice Kennedy delivered the opinion for the 5-4 majority holding that the prisoners had a right to the habeas corpus under the United States Constitution and that the Military Commissions Act of 2006 was an unconstitutional suspension of that right.

    Bush signed the 2006 MCA... so much for defending the constitution of the United States.
  8. Thread Author  Thread Author    #33  

    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdicesare2002 View Post
    Hmm I do remember congress in June 2008 signing the 161.8 billion in new funds to continue fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for the following year, without timetables for withdrawing combat troops. I remember everyone being so upset there was no mention of bring troops home.

    Unfortunately no one told Congress they were not funding in, maybe you should have emailed them in 2008 so they would not publicly pass the fund and your statements would have been correct today.



    Sent from my Droid Razr Maxx!!
    I can fund my new TV purchase with a credit card...... I still have to pay the bill. Funding isnt the same as paying the bill.
  9. #34  

    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by kilofox View Post
    I can fund my new TV purchase with a credit card...... I still have to pay the bill. Funding isnt the same as paying the bill.
    That is a valid point my friend I was under the impression that it was to fund to continue I will do some research real quick. If you are indeed correct I will retract my statement on that issue on this thread crediting you.

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  10. #35  

    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by kilofox View Post
    I can fund my new TV purchase with a credit card...... I still have to pay the bill. Funding isnt the same as paying the bill.
    Ok after reading the details and restrictions on the funding buy congress I think its safe to say it was not to pay off a bill.

    1st: Congress made it clear that they would not vote for more funding and that this would be Bush's last funding in office and that it was enough money to last past his term in office. (If this was to pay for his "charge card" it wouldn't have to last that long it would all go out at once, to pay for already bought things.

    2nd: the money was not to be used to fund permanent bases in either Iraq or Afghanistan. (This tells me the money was "free" to spend except for a permanent base. So not already spent money.)

    3rd: Baghdad to match, dollar-for-dollar, U.S. reconstruction aid. ( so the money had to also repair the damage still being inflicted on the city.)

    Also in 2008 the Senate and the House were both majority Democratic who approved this funding. So no the Republican party did not push it through.


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  11. Thread Author  Thread Author    #36  

    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    So are you saying that the Iraqi and Afghanistan Wars are "paid" and not added to the national deficit?

    By the time Bush was leaving office the economic "damage" of the Iraqi war was already done... or as Powell said, "You break it, you own it."

    Look... I voted for Bush twice. But IMO, his decision to lead us to war in Iraq is the single biggest military blunder in our nation's history.
    Last edited by kilofox; 02-10-2013 at 06:52 PM.
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  12. #37  
    backbeat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by kilofox View Post
    Tell me what he (Obama) has done that is illegal..... please. The house republicans have been in power since he first took office in 2008... if he is doing illegal things, THEN WHY HAVENT THEY CHARGED HIM????
    I'd appreciate it if anyone could supply the list of legal charges successfully prosecuted against the President, individually. Is there another standard which determines legality which I'm unaware? Otherwise, it appears retractions may be in order.
  13. #38  

    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by kilofox View Post
    So are you saying that the Iraqi and Afghanistan Wars are "paid" and not added to the national deficit?

    By the time Bush was leaving office the economic "damage" of the Iraqi war was already done... or as Powell said, "You break it, you own it."

    Look... I voted for Bush twice. But IMO, his decision to lead us to war in Iraq is the single biggest military blunder in our nation's history.
    Not saying it did not add to national debt or that it was a good decision, simply pointing out that he did not "credit card" the entire conflict there was approved funds voted on by congress and that he had support for the conflict by congress (a Democrat majority in both) that includes said funding and Iraq war resolution.

    Bush may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but if you go by the thought that because he is the commander in chief total blame lies with him then by that thought process Hitler should have been the only war criminal in WW2 as he was CinC and all the other war criminals were we following his leadership and not to blame.

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  14. #39  
    Kevin O'Quinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Please read THIS POST as it's been updated.

    Thanks
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
  15. #40  
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    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    I was thinking the same thing did they add then after sandy hook? Because lately I open Tapatalk and first thread I see is impeach Obama guns this guns that. Pretty hard to ignore. Really was hoping this was a fluke but guess not. Is there a way to hide this section so I don't see it?
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    Why is there a politics Forum on a Tech website? Who cares? This isn't a USA only site.


    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Xparent Cyan Tapatalk 2
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  16. #41  
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    Default Re: Why no uproar over the 4th & 6th Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by moosc View Post
    I was thinking the same thing did they add then after sandy hook? Because lately I open Tapatalk and first thread I see is impeach Obama guns this guns that. Pretty hard to ignore. Really was hoping this was a fluke but guess not. Is there a way to hide this section so I don't see it?



    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Xparent Cyan Tapatalk 2
    Unfortunately I don't think you can hide it. I think it got this popular AFTER Sandy Hook. It's always been here, but was never even close to this "popular".
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
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