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  1. #201  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    I'm not disputing your knowledge of firearms. I agree that the AR-15 is superior in firepower, recoil, and control than a shotgun.

    Still, you say that all Americans have the right to "choose" their weapons? If that is the case, as someone mentioned earlier, then I should have the choice to put landmines in front of my house, because that's what I feel more confident with. Heck, I don't even want to shoot, just kill them outside, thank you.

    My point is that the choice of weapons is not an absolute right, it is superceded by other responsibilities to society at large.

    Banning, restricting, or regulating assault rifles may reduce your choices. It doesn't endanger your right to bear arms or defend yourself.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    Once again you are comparing military hardware IE landmine to a civilian firearm.

    when you said: Banning, restricting, or regulating assault rifles may reduce your choices. It doesn't endanger your right to bear arms or defend yourself.

    Thats exactly what it does...
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  2. Thread Author  Thread Author    #202  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    You show your ignorance of handguns as well as previous posts showing your ignorance of shotguns and rifles.

    Handgun calibers go all the way up to .500 meaning that some are very stout. Reference this to the caliber of the AR15 which is .223, less than half the size of a S&W 500 revolver.

    There are very good choices in handguns, rifles, and shotguns for self defense but having a shotgun able to only fire 2 rounds is not prudent for self defense.

    Unless you are a highly trained individual practicing in high stress scenarios against bad guys everyday, you don't know how you will react with adrenaline coursing thru your body in a life or death situation. You certainly could miss with those two shots and failing to scare the person off would you declare a time out to reload assuming you had even the clarity of thought to put a few extra shells in your pockets. What if you are only in your underwear?

    Biden's shotgun of choice is great for skeet not SD. Self-defense shotguns hold a minimum of 5-6 rounds. Handguns and rifles with a few exceptions hold at least 5 rounds. This would be a good minimum to start with and certainly 30 rounds would not be too much.

    I'd rather have too many rounds and not need them than need them and not have them and be a statistic of CD's.
    No, you've got a point. My knowledge of firearms is not as extensive as yours.

    There's lots of things I'd rather have too, Markster1. I'd rather not have to pay my speeding ticket. But, I have to abide by the law, or go to jail.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
  3. #203  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    I'm not disputing your knowledge of firearms. I agree that the AR-15 is superior in firepower, recoil, and control than a shotgun.

    Still, you say that all Americans have the right to "choose" their weapons? If that is the case, as someone mentioned earlier, then I should have the choice to put landmines in front of my house, because that's what I feel more confident with. Heck, I don't even want to shoot, just kill them outside, thank you.

    My point is that the choice of weapons is not an absolute right, it is superceded by other responsibilities to society at large.

    Banning, restricting, or regulating assault rifles may reduce your choices. It doesn't endanger your right to bear arms or defend yourself.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    There isn't anything in the market to compares to owning landmines so that is a superfluous analogy.

    If you compare the caliber of the AR15, .223, with other rifles on the market you will see that there are many that overpower it in penetration, range, speed, damage, etc.

    There are handgun calibers that out perform it in all characteristics so you have to take performance off the table.

    That leaves ease of use with the pistol grip and collapsible stock. Again there are handguns outperforming it.

    Next would be high capacity mags. Once more, outdone by a pistol. The secret service carry Glock 18's which are fully automatic and which can use a 33rd mag.

    So what do we have left? It looks like a military weapon and it's scary because of that. Makes no sense why you're seeking to ban them.

    Yes they were used in homicides but handguns are used in far greater numbers.

    So the ? that begs to be answered is, Why ban this type of weapon.

    Let's ban the criminal. Guns don't fire themselves.
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  4. #204  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    No, you've got a point. My knowledge of firearms is not as extensive as yours.

    There's lots of things I'd rather have too, Markster1. I'd rather not have to pay my speeding ticket. But, I have to abide by the law, or go to jail.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    But you are punishing legal, lawful gun owners for the crimes of a few people that operated this hardware in an illegal action.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  5. Thread Author  Thread Author    #205  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    Once again you are comparing military hardware IE landmine to a civilian firearm.
    You don't like that comparison, do you?

    when you said: Banning, restricting, or regulating assault rifles may reduce your choices. It doesn't endanger your right to bear arms or defend yourself.

    Thats exactly what it does...
    Flatly denying a statement is not equivalent to refuting it, Live2ride

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
  6. #206  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    No, you've got a point. My knowledge of firearms is not as extensive as yours.

    There's lots of things I'd rather have too, Markster1. I'd rather not have to pay my speeding ticket. But, I have to abide by the law, or go to jail.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    We should ban Corvettes because they can travel to speeds three times faster than the speed limit. Speed kills and you will die in that fiberglass car. You should only be able to own a Prius. It doesn't matter that there are cars faster or more dangerous than the vette. It looks fast.

    Makes sense right?
  7. #207  
    backbeat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    Once again you are comparing military hardware IE landmine to a civilian firearm.
    I suppose landmines made up their own minds to be purely military-issued, right? Or did government decide that for you?
  8. Thread Author  Thread Author    #208  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    We should ban Corvettes because they can travel to speeds three times faster than the speed limit. Speed kills and you will die in that fiberglass car. You should only be able to own a Prius. It doesn't matter that there are cars faster or more dangerous than the vette. It looks fast.

    Makes sense right?
    We don't ban Corvettes because there is a speed limit.

    And plus, it'd be bad for domestic automakers eh? Lol



    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
  9. #209  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    it's 2013, not 1813.... why isn't there an Android app that will incapacitate criminals robbing your house yet?
    or do we have to wait until 2113?

    since most crimes against smartphones are committed against iPhones, I'm putting up stickers telling
    criminals that I have not iOS devices in my home.

    I know someone who once kept a pet python at home... right there in the living room. It got up to be
    about 11 feet long... best deterrent against everything. (unless the thief happens to be a snake
    lover)
  10. #210  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    We don't ban Corvettes because there is a speed limit.

    And plus, it'd be bad for domestic automakers eh? Lol



    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    There are more than a few gun manufacturers here in the US that only solely produce the AR15. Do you care about keeping them in business?

    The Corvette is only one car of many GM produces, surely it wouldn't put them out of business.
  11. #211  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    We don't ban Corvettes because there is a speed limit.

    And plus, it'd be bad for domestic automakers eh? Lol



    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    And yet there are people who disregard that speed limit so instead of holding those people responsible let's ban those vette's.
  12. Thread Author  Thread Author    #212  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    And yet there are people who disregard that speed limit so instead of holding those people responsible let's ban those vette's.
    But a Corvettes primary function is not to kill people. It doesn't pose the same threat as an assault rifle would...

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
  13. #213  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    So when the department of homeland security orders 7,000 ar-15's they are referred to as "personal defense weapons." Yet when responsible gun owners have them and people like yourself want to take them away they are assault weapons????

    I should also point out that these have been manufactured to be fully automatic.

    Last edited by Live2ride883; 02-21-2013 at 04:45 PM.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  14. #214  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    An ar-15 is not a piece of military hardware, it is the civilian version of the M4 Carbine.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  15. #215  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    But a Corvettes primary function is not to kill people. It doesn't pose the same threat as an assault rifle would...

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    And yet there are millions of gun owners who don't kill people with their ar15's so why take them?
  16. #216  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    I would argue that more people are killed by corvettes than by an ar-15, just by the sheer number of deaths in cars versus shootings.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  17. #217  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    That's a good question Kevin, and to tell you the truth, I'd say no to a pistol being adequate. Want to know why?

    A pistol can be lightweight and easily concealed. Lots of thieves and burglars could conceivably carry a pistol due to it's size. A pistol fires small caliber rounds.

    On the other hand, a homeowner doesn't need to move their weapon around because they are in one spot. They have space to store the shotgun. A shotgun has granular pellets that explode out in a conical trajectory, covering more area in a shorter range. So you don't need to be as accurate with a shotgun as a pistol, because of the ammunition.

    I wouldn't argue that all homeowners would feel safe carrying just a small caliber pistol. Based on the facts it doesn't appear reasonable. But it does seem reasonable that a larger, pump action shotgun with multiple rounds would be sufficient against the large *majority* of threats, and that's why I support what Biden is saying.



    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    A 9mm round which is a common carry self defense firearm has a heavier round than the AR 15 shoots.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Android Central Forums
  18. #218  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    An ar-15 is not a piece of military hardware, it is the civilian version of the M4 Carbine.
    I'm a gun owner and enthusiast myself, but that logic is a bit flimsy. Functionally, it is the same/similar and every bit as "deadly" in the right hands.
  19. #219  
    Kevin O'Quinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    But a Corvettes primary function is not to kill people. It doesn't pose the same threat as an assault rifle would...

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    Its primary purpose is to go fast. To speed. Which makes it capable of breaking a law. What you're saying is that one thing has the capability of performing an illegal act and should be banned, but the other thing shouldn't.

    I also get this feeling that you're real close to being convinced that the AR-15 is not as bad as you first thought it was.
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
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  20. #220  
    backbeat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Quinn View Post
    Its primary purpose is to go fast. To speed. Which makes it capable of breaking a law. What you're saying is that one thing has the capability of performing an illegal act and should be banned, but the other thing shouldn't.
    No, its primary purpose is transportation. The same as every other vehicle approved by the US government for use on US roads. If used as a weapon to kill others, resulting in vehicular homicide/manslaughter, then and only then can a vehicle be compared to murder/homicide-via-firearm rates.
  21. #221  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    No, its primary purpose is transportation. The same as every other vehicle approved by the US government for use on US roads. If used as a weapon to kill others, resulting in vehicular homicide/manslaughter, then and only then can a vehicle be compared to murder/homicide-via-firearm rates.
    But we know that the faster you travel the greater the danger you present to other people.

    So you knew the dangers and did it anyway, instead of punishing you for killing 3 people, we're just going to ban the vette.
  22. #222  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    The primary uses of an ar-15 are defense, hunting, sport and target shooting.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  23. #223  
    backbeat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    But we know that the faster you travel the greater the danger you present to other people.

    So you knew the dangers and did it anyway, instead of punishing you for killing 3 people, we're just going to ban the vette.
    If you want to compare vehicle accidents resulting in death (versus the use of a vehicle with intent to do harm to another person) to accidental firearm deaths, go right ahead.
  24. #224  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by underdonk View Post
    I'm a gun owner and enthusiast myself, but that logic is a bit flimsy. Functionally, it is the same/similar and every bit as "deadly" in the right hands.
    The major difference and the one people who wish to ban the AR15 fail to distinguish is that, military versions have the ability to fire more than one bullet with one press of the trigger.

    Civilian versions like every other gun civilians can purchase legally can only fire one bullet with one press of the trigger.

    Functionally, a major difference!
  25. #225  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    If you want to compare vehicle accidents resulting in death (versus the use of a vehicle with intent to do harm to another person) to accidental firearm deaths, go right ahead.
    I'm comparing the illogical thinking going into banning an ar15 or a vette. Same thing IMO, YMMV.

    Thank God we can voice differences of opinion still in this country.

    Freedom of speech is going out the window right after guns do.
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