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  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #51  

    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers



    Last edited by Live2ride883; 06-10-2013 at 12:48 PM.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

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    rexxman's Avatar

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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    David Letterman on the controversy (loosely quoted because I didn't write it down) "Edward said he didn't want to live in a country where the government spies on its citizens. Then he fled to China."

    Posted via Android Central App
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  3. #53  

    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by rexxman View Post
    David Letterman on the controversy (loosely quoted because I didn't write it down) "Edward said he didn't want to live in a country where the government spies on its citizens. Then he fled to China."

    Posted via Android Central App
    Meh...main stream food for the sheeple. Unfortunately David Letterman is an adulterous swine. His days are numbered for t.v. appearances with his pathetic ratings.
  4. #54  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    I agree this guy shouldn't be prosecuted but I understand why they have to do it. He DID break the law, and whistleblower protections are complicated when it comes to national security issues.

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  5. Thread Author  Thread Author    #55  

    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    I agree this guy shouldn't be prosecuted but I understand why they have to do it. He DID break the law, and whistleblower protections are complicated when it comes to national security issues.
    He supported the country, not an administration. Throw him a parade and start naming schools after him. Yea I know it won't happen that way...


    I found this from Joe Biden on government tracking of our calls, it's from 2006. I wonder what he would say now though.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NSA collects records of Verizon customers-935232_574576505918643_91941216_n.jpeg  
    Last edited by Live2ride883; 06-12-2013 at 09:05 AM.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  6. #56  
    rexxman's Avatar

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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    He endangered a country, not an administration. Charge him, arrest him and send him to trial. If found guilty by a jury of his peers, he can parade on the exercise yard of a Federal prison.

    From what we know so far, he has not conducted himself with the same integrity displayed by Daniel Ellsberg.
  7. #57  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Strange that we need all that secret eavesdropping, meta or not. I could've sworn we were just told that "the war on terror is over". Guess it isn't.

    What a shock.

    I think signatures are jejune.
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    Strange that we need all that secret eavesdropping, meta or not. I could've sworn we were just told that "the war on terror is over". Guess it isn't.

    What a shock.

    I think signatures are jejune.
    I believe now it's a war on domestic terrorism, with all this wiretapping and legalizing of drone strikes on American citizens.

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  9. #59  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    'Le sigh

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

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  10. #60  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers


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  11. #61  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    How could it be expected that only the American public would be able to see it and nobody else?

    I think signatures are jejune.
  12. #62  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    How could it be expected that only the American public would be able to see it and nobody else?

    I think signatures are jejune.
    If he were leaking the actual intel, and not the fact that there is intel, and if that somehow benefited actual enemies, yes. In this case, it's Big Bro vs the American People and I'm not clear on how it helps or hurts anyone not in one of those two categories.

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  13. #63  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    If he were leaking the actual intel, and not the fact that there is intel, and if that somehow benefited actual enemies, yes. In this case, it's Big Bro vs the American People and I'm not clear on how it helps or hurts anyone not in one of those two categories.
    I think leaking Intel and leaking the fact that there is Intel is pretty much the same animal. It's really a multifaceted situation. You don't think him telling China what we've been doing for years with their systems (but maybe not what we found) puts us on a different square of the chessboard?

    I think signatures are jejune.
    Last edited by llamabreath; 06-13-2013 at 12:02 AM.
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  14. #64  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    I think leaking Intel and leaking the fact that there is Intel is pretty much the same animal. It's really a multifaceted situation. You don't think him telling China what we've been doing for years with their systems (but maybe not what we found) is dangerous to us?

    I think signatures are jejune.
    It has the potential to, certainly. It could cause diplomatic tensions, give them a potential opportunity to back-hack or may even provoke them into retaliation. But those are all decisions they make and we should respond accordingly, regardless of how justified they feel in their actions. This definitely has the potential to complicate things, but when this guy is trying (presumably) to do the right thing, he perhaps shouldn't be held responsible for people who misuse his efforts.

    The analogy I'm thinking of is this: If you abandoned your car on the interstate (an illegal act) in order to lend aid to an injured person or group of persons (a noble act) and someone stole your car (an illegal act) and used it as a getaway car in a bank robbery (another illegal act)... are you guilty of car theft or bank robbery? Obviously, your illegal action provided the opportunity, but you were not involved in their decision to capitalize on it.

    Now, when it comes to national security, persons with clearance are in fact responsible for downwind actions resulting from their misuse, but that misuse is typically the result of malice or mistake on their part, and not whistle-blowing. In this circumstance, I think I could argue both sides of it fairly well given enough time to study, but ultimately I hate to punish anyone for legitimately trying to help. I also don't know what was in his heart or head at the time to read his intentions and could be wrong about that, and I do realize how this gets to an, "ends justify the means" conversation, which I do not agree with in full, but can see situations where that is of course true.

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  15. #65  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Matt, this is why we need you to stay here. Not only can you see every angle inside and outside the box; but you can also see the properties of what the box is sitting on. :thumbup:

    I think signatures are jejune.
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  16. #66  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    Matt, this is why we need you to stay here. Not only can you see every angle inside and outside the box; but you can also see the properties of what the box is sitting on. :thumbup:

    I think signatures are jejune.
    lol, you know I reread these after hitting send and say, "what in the world is this looney talking about!?!".

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  17. #67  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    lol, you know I reread these after hitting send and say, "what in the world is this looney talking about!?!".
    And i usually think you make perfect sense, so who's the loony now? lol

    I think signatures are jejune.
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  18. #68  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Do you think he was honestly trying to help or that there is another motive of some sort? Does it matter what his intentions are?

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  19. #69  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    Do you think he was honestly trying to help or that there is another motive of some sort? Does it matter what his intentions are?
    We might not ever know what his intentions were, but he had to be smart enough to imagine the possible repercussions, no?

    I think signatures are jejune.
  20. #70  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    We might not ever know what his intentions were, but he had to be smart enough to imagine the possible repercussions, no?

    I think signatures are jejune.
    Not sure, the more I hear about him the more he sounds like a somewhat clever fool. He's younger than I am, and has a career based on family connections rather than education or merit. He's a very interesting choice for NSA security and CIA positions, given that with what's publicly known about him, he is utterly unqualified. He's obviously intelligent to understand the surface philosophy of internet freedom, etc. and to buy into EFF principles, etc.... but how deeply he thought about it, who know? He knew there would be consequences and is acting accordingly.. almost scripted.

    In my core I feel like he's not what we're being shown, but I don't have any direct evidence to that point. If he is what he appears to be, then what he did is somewhat admirable in a way, but still has the debate we started early involved in it. If he's not, then what is actually going on?

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  21. #71  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    I don't know; maybe something that only Hollywood could script. Either way, I don't think anything positive will come out of this at all.

    I think signatures are jejune.
  22. #72  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    These bastards are now parading officials out to say, "collection such as this could have foiled 9/11!" You insipid little maggot. How can you say that? We HAD the intel and CHOSE not to act on it. FOR MONTHS! It's annoying enough to have 9/11 be the justification for everything, big or small, that the government wants to cram down the throat of the Country, but real people died and deserve better than to be exploited to promote obvious lies.

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  23. #73  

    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetGator View Post
    How about if it stops a chemical gassing of a subway? Or a nuke of a city?
    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue
    Still no.
    See, that's where I think we differ. While privacy is nice, it doesn't do you much good if your city is in smoking ruins and you are DEAD. I think there needs to be checks and balances. But I am not willing to say that millions of others in a city need to die for my privacy either.
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetGator View Post
    See, that's where I think we differ. While privacy is nice, it doesn't do you much good if your city is in smoking ruins and you are DEAD. I think there needs to be checks and balances. But I am not willing to say that millions of others in a city need to die for my privacy either.
    I don't believe we have to choose one or the other... That the only way they can do their job is through extra-Constitutional means. It seems to be a false choice, however if it IS the ONLY way, then ask us for permission first and amend the Constitution to allow it.

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  25. #75  
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    Default Re: NSA collects records of Verizon customers

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    I don't believe we have to choose one or the other... That the only way they can do their job is through extra-Constitutional means. It seems to be a false choice, however if it IS the ONLY way, then ask us for permission first and amend the Constitution to allow it.

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    It would be nice if the government actually followed that guideline huh? But they don't, they just do things in privacy expecting no one will notice.

    I love whistle blowers they keep the government and big business honest.

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