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  1. #576  
    nrm5110's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    So if assault weapons aren't dangerous...when will the GOP give up on the so called war on drugs? I laugh that a natural green plant scares folks more than a fully automatic weapon.

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    You are a misinformed media nut we have discussed this assault weapons aren't automatic.

    Automatic weapons require extensive background checks, fingerprints, written consent from local law enforcement, heavy taxation, and a class 3 federal license. It's hard to get an automatic weapon.

    Please at least have some knowledge before you spew crap.

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  2. #577  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Or you can buy one illegally, like so many of the comments have suggested.

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  3. #578  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Its easier to get that green plant you're talking about

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  4. #579  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    How far you think he will get with that?
    This is just the start of what is going to be a long battle to protect the rights of gun owners In the state of New York, but elsewhere. This is very well written, it addresses the grievances against the actions of the Government of The State of New York. The gun owners of NY are attempting peaceful means that will hopefully lead to meaningful conversation that can bring real solutions to the issues surrounding these mass killings.

    If you are asking will it do any good, I honestly don't know. I do believe in our system, I do believe that the Constitution is the document in which all laws must be based, if a law is unconstitutional then it is not only my right but my duty as an American not to obey it. If I lived in NY state I would not register nor surrender any of my weapons.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  5. #580  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Here's an excerpt from a Washington Times piece that I believe is relevant to this discussion. The entire article is linked below.

    "A Jan. 30 column in The Washington Times sent a clear message to those whove somehow failed to put two-and-two together in the current gun control debategun grabbing politicians want to take our guns away, but leave their guns in place."

    Washington Times: Washington Times: Gun Free Zones Are Only For ?The Little People? - BlackListedNews.com

    Ammo land also has some information on this as well.
    Washington Times: Gun Free Zones Are Only For 'The Little People'

    For information only:
    America?s Biggest Killers: The Chart Anti-Gunners Don?t Want You To See - BlackListedNews.com
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  6. #581  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    We aren't paying them any mind. I do not own a gun myself but I am close to several people who do. None of them are registered, all are locked in gun safes.

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  7. #582  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    This is just the start of what is going to be a long battle to protect the rights of gun owners In the state of New York, but elsewhere.
    If it optimizes its potential, you'll end up with a citizen's grand jury which will consist of militia members meeting in the woods to write down their beefs against the government, kill some animals, drink some alcoholic beverages, etc. There's your up-side.

    ..... if a law is unconstitutional then it is not only my right but my duty as an American not to obey it.
    Do you recognize and fully respect the ruling of the US and NY State Supreme Court? Yes or No.
  8. #583  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    This is just the start of what is going to be a long battle to protect the rights of gun owners In the state of New York, but elsewhere. This is very well written, it addresses the grievances against the actions of the Government of The State of New York. The gun owners of NY are attempting peaceful means that will hopefully lead to meaningful conversation that can bring real solutions to the issues surrounding these mass killings.

    If you are asking will it do any good, I honestly don't know. I do believe in our system, I do believe that the Constitution is the document in which all laws must be based, if a law is unconstitutional then it is not only my right but my duty as an American not to obey it. If I lived in NY state I would not register nor surrender any of my weapons.
    Ok, we need to get back to reality. The NY SAFE act does not request nor require anyone to surrender any arms. It does require registration in order to prove they were purchased prior to the law being passed. The letter to the editor must be taken in the context of the source again. It was written in a pro-gun-NUT publication. Not an information source, an entertainment source. You can identify this as truth from the comments left on the letter. I personally do not agree with every provision of this law, but I've yet to see an opinion from a constitutional lawyer, practicing or in academia, that states that this violates the 2nd amendment in any way. There is nothing banning the possession of arms, just regulation there-of.

    The author of the letter did specifically state that any regulation was a violation of a right, however they failed to notice that every other right defined in the bill of rights and other amendments are also heavily regulated. While I agree that the verbiage used by this author far exceeds the normal linguistic capabilities of the typical author of this quite of drivel, it is still nonsense. It's combative, based on delusion and it attempts to use sensationalism and fear to bypass due process of law. A responsible governor and legislature would ignore the letter entirely other than perhaps notifying the citizen of their rights under the law to attempt to legally challenge any provisions they disagree with. The closing line is, "You think you can just make up a law and take our our guns? It doesnt [SIC] work like that." In the real world, they didn't just make it up, they legally passed it. They're elected members of the legislature and that is their privilege. The remedy for removing laws they passed is to ask them to, challenge the laws in court, or elect others who will represent your interests more to your specifications. The "take our guns" part is absolutely insane and inflammatory.

    Again and again this concept of surrendering arms is brought up as a talking point, as though it is a given truth that is hiding behind the facade of a mustache twisting conspiratorial shadow government. NO ONE who is not INSANE has EVER suggested confiscating legally acquired guns. I'm not sure how that's not clear. Every legislation grandfather's in legally acquired firearms.

    The sole exception to this is the confiscation of arms illegally purchased by mentally ill individuals. If you have a mental defect and are a danger to yourself and others, the guns that you have were illegally acquired because you LIED on the background check form. If you circumvented the background check intentionally because you knew you could not otherwise lawfully acquire a gun, you are a criminal by intent and now by definition of this law, assuming you are subject to New York law.

    It is important to recognize that the sources of information on BOTH SIDES of this issue are full of fear-mongering insane morons who do NOT have YOUR interests in mind. When the phrases, "assault weapon", "take our guns", "2nd amendment", "no more Columbines", etc, etc, etc are used it shows ignorance. It is so infuriating to see link after link to the ravings of the lunatic fringe as if they were well informed, well meaning patriots and not the LUNATIC FRINGE. Both sides of this "argument" are so delusional, basing all arguments on emotional nonsense talking points and never even considering things like logic, facts or the credibility of their sources, that I'm pretty sure that this comment, this thread, this national "discussion", like every other attempt to insert a mite of reality into the storm of insanity, is absolutely a waste of time.

    Why focus on this sheer ridiculous nonsense and ignore the actual offenses against the rights of citizens? It's comical and sad and symptomatic of exactly WHY distractions such as this are effective. Can you pay attention for longer than six seconds? They don't think so and you're proving them right.
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  9. #584  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    If it optimizes its potential, you'll end up with a citizen's grand jury which will consist of militia members meeting in the woods to write down their beefs against the government, kill some animals, drink some alcoholic beverages, etc. There's your up-side.
    I bet you feel smug up on your soap box feeling high and mighty looking down your condescending nose at everyone. You belittle everyone who doesn't agree with you. Quit acting the bully and debate like an adult.
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  10. #585  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    I bet you feel smug up on your soap box feeling high and mighty looking down your condescending nose at everyone. You belittle everyone who doesn't agree with you. Quit acting the bully and debate like an adult.
    You have a problem with "citizen's grand juries"? Does their immense power intimidate you?
  11. #586  
    nrm5110's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    You have a problem with "citizen's grand juries"? Does their immense power intimidate you?
    I believe it's your attitude in general that most find off putting. Its hard to find more than a few posts where you aren't flat out insulting someone or using a more passive aggressive means.

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  12. #587  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    "The debate surrounding the Constitution's ratification is of practical import, particularly to adherents of originalist and strict constructionist legal theories. In the context of such legal theories and elsewhere, it is important to understand the language of the Constitution in terms of what that language meant to the people who wrote and ratified the Constitution.[69]
    The Second Amendment was relatively uncontroversial at the time of its ratification.[70] Robert Whitehill, a delegate from Pennsylvania, sought to clarify the draft Constitution with a bill of rights explicitly granting individuals the right to hunt on their own land in season,[71] though Whitehill's language was never debated.[72] Rather, the Constitutional delegates altered the language of the Second Amendment several times to emphasize the military context of the amendment[73] and the role of the militia as a force to defend national sovereignty,[74] quell insurrection,[75][76] and protect against tyranny.[77]" - Wikipedia, sources on that site.

    This is why the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with private citizens who are not currently enlisted.

    Here is the actual text, passed 6 months later to clarify the Militia:

    "On May 8, 1792, Congress passed "[a]n act more effectually to provide for the National Defence, by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States" requiring:
    [E]ach and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia...[and] every citizen so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch with a box therein to contain not less than twenty-four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball: or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear, so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise, or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.[99]"

    So, if you are a white, male between the requisite ages, you shall automatically be enlisted and the specific arms that you are entitled to keep and maintain are listed therein. Obviously we do not use this law any longer as the Militia is now the National Guard, and service is voluntarily entered.

    Second Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  13. #588  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    I believe it's your attitude in general that most find off putting. Its hard to find more than a few posts where you aren't flat out insulting someone or using a more passive aggressive means.
    Given what it means to be acceptable by your definition, I'm good.
  14. #589  
    nrm5110's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    So since I'm actively enlisted should I be allowed to own and maintain an assault weapon?

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  15. #590  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    Quit acting the bully and debate like an adult.
    IF adults had begun the "debate" here, you would not have felt the need to make that very post. Cause : Effect. Besides, it does not appear to be me or my side who feels it necessary to hi-5 every posted assault on another person's character. It is not I who is bullying.
  16. #591  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    So since I'm actively enlisted should I be allowed to own and maintain an assault weapon?

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    If we had never have created a standing Federal Army, you would have the right to own and maintain a musket. Now we issue weapons to our troops, and when I was leaving they were actively enforcing the ban on personal weapons in the military. Many teams ignore the ban, but they never would pay for repairs for your personal arms and if your personal property caused injury to yourself or others you could be prosecuted.
  17. #592  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    If we had never have created a standing Federal Army, you would have the right to own and maintain a musket. Now we issue weapons to our troops, and when I was leaving they were actively enforcing the ban on personal weapons in the military. Many teams ignore the ban, but they never would pay for repairs for your personal arms and if your personal property caused injury to yourself or others you could be prosecuted.
    I'm well aware of the consequences but there's no ban for national guardsmen owning weapons as far as I'm concerned after quite a few years.

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  18. #593  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    So since I'm actively enlisted should I be allowed to own and maintain an assault weapon?
    No. You use the weapons issued to you within the regs calling for their use on-base or within a mission. Those weapons which are readily available to you on the legal, open market are those you can employ in civil society, within the civil laws local to you.
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  19. #594  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    I'm well aware of the consequences but there's no ban for national guardsmen owning weapons as far as I'm concerned after quite a few years.

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    Right, we just didn't drill with personal weapons or take them to theater. As a citizen you can own anything you can legally purchase.

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  20. #595  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Buffalo attorney James S, Tresmond, Esq, filed a lawsuit in New York State Supreme Court before the Honorable Diane Devlin, making this the first legal challenge to the NY SAFE Act to be heard in any court. Further proceedings are scheduled for February 21, 2013 at 9:30 a.m.[23] Also on the same day The New York State Rifle and Pistol Association filed a notice of legal claim.[24]
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  21. #596  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home within many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession listed by the Court as being consistent with the Second Amendment.[3] In McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.[4]

    Second Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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  22. #597  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    IF adults had begun the "debate" here, you would not have felt the need to make that very post. Cause : Effect. Besides, it does not appear to be me or my side who feels it necessary to hi-5 every posted assault on another person's character. It is not I who is bullying.
    It's only you bud, not any of your supporters.
  23. #598  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home within many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession listed by the Court as being consistent with the Second Amendment.[3] In McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.[4]

    Second Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    You are correct that both of these are current law. I definitely do not agree with the contradictory logic used by Scalia to overturn 200 years of logic, because a more simple and more elegant argument should have been made. The federal government cannot regulate personal usage of arms because the Constitution does not day that they can. Using bad 1970s NRA wing nut logic to tie it inaccurately to the 2nd just demonstrates how either corrupted, incompetent or deluded he is.

    That argument had been made many times over the prior 80 years and the scotus consistently maintained it as a states rights issue.

    Scalia on one hand tells us the Constitution is a dead document and should be taken with the intended meaning of the authors, then ignores the entire context and half of the contents of the amendment.


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  24. #599  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    I believe we should either bear the intended wisdom of the founding fathers as is, without corruption or let them rest and independently craft a new wisdom. To make partisan use of their sacrifices is disgusting and unworthy. Say whichever message you mean with integrity, but accept that they who won freedom may disagree.

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  25. #600  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    In response to all of the talking points regarding non-existent threats to confiscate weapons, the 2nd amendment, etc, I want to make it clear that I do not support giving the Federal government any sort of authority to disarm the populace. I do not believe they currently have this authority, nor should the people relinquish it to them.

    I do believe they have and should have the right to pass legislation to restrict what kinds of weapons are available and that most of the legislation we have in effect is already enough (actually automatic weapons, tanks, fighter jets, nukes, etc).

    I think "assault weapon" is a deliberately misleading term that demeans the speaker to use such a fallacy. That term is used solely to scare people who do not understand guns.

    I do not believe the 2nd amendment protects the rights of civilian gun ownership. The founding father's didn't believe that, and until the most recent 40 years, only a very small minority of people did believe that it was relevant. Now the law of the land says they are connected, and I accept that, however it is still possible to disagree with your government's position while following the laws set out. We even have ways to protest unjust decisions and legislation for those so inclined.

    Banning any kind of weapon will not have the intended impact of stopping criminals from using weapons in the commission of a crime.

    If the government ever did attempt to round up and confiscate lawfully obtained weapons from law abiding citizens, I would support resistance to that action unless a constitutional amendment was passed by the house and ratified by the states giving them the power to do so.

    Specifically to Live2Ride - With all of the misinformation out there, it behooves us to try to be as contextually accurate and educational as possible when trying to combat an opposing opinion. I think you and I agree on many principals and disagree on others, however the approach used is what is causing the backlash. I mean absolutely no disrespect, but seeing your posts makes me feel like I'm reading someone who is telling me what Rush Limbaugh or the other fringe lunatics think, not what you think. You and Carolina both have the intelligence to cut through the BS of the other side, but neither seem willing to reflect that analytic critique upon their own side's sources. If we have a goal of reaching a consensus, we'll need to move away from talking points and speak in terms of philosophy and law, while remaining above the need to respond to the lunatics in the media. Both sides are acting incredibly paranoid and the point of this thread, was to present solutions. We're spending the majority of our time defending the paranoia.
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