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  1. #626  
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    Default Re: How Many Firearm Deaths In The US Since Sandy Hook Elementary School?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    I think the parameters of this thread are too restrictive to allow any type of discussion.....
    Tough. The memory of those slaughtered isn't fodder for entertainment purposes.

    ... in going after gun deaths you have to be aware of the intent of the person holding the gun that caused the death.

    1) How many were suicides
    2) how many were caused by criminals during the commission of a crime
    3) how many were caused by the victim during the commission of a crime
    4) a police officer.
    The answers have already been supplied. None are suicides. The numbers do, however, include police officers killed in the line of duty by assailants. All figures are the result of murder/homicide. Read more.

    You claim to want vetted and apolitical information yet: Even the site you linked states that the data there is incomplete and therefore inaccurate and cannot be vetted.
    As was stated up front, these are raw numbers as chronicled primarily by local newspapers. One report per death. If you would like autopsy photos and sworn statements, email the newspaper to confirm "death". Reasonable people will be reasonable.

    Apolitical: The very political ad you posted is paid for by Progressive Change Campaign Committee. Progressive Change Campaign Committee (PCCC) | Join the Bold Progressive movement to see their political goals.
    Point out the political aspect within the content and context of the ad. Accountability isn't partisan. Try harder.

    In the very first paragraph you discuss the tragedy at Newtown and describe in detail that 20 small children and 6 adults had their lives taken. Yet the next one states all you want is "Raw numbers" if all you want are raw numbers then the fact that they were innocent quite literally doesn't matter.
    You're confused on this point. See above where I refer to raw numbers. Should be clearer to you now.

    The tragedies at Newtown and Aurora were unfortunate and will have a lasting effect on this country. But in my opinion we are focusing on the tool used and not the person(s) responsible.
    Until and unless we, collectively, phrase that the tragedies at Newtown, etc are unacceptable (not 'unfortunate'), these episodes will only escalate, becoming worse and more tragic with each one. Guaranteed.

    Please leave fringe editorials where they belong. Somewhere other than this thread.
  2. #627  

    Default Re: How Many Firearm Deaths In The US Since Sandy Hook Elementary School?

    Guns and Self-Defense by Gary Kleck, Ph.D.

    If someone were to open the OP's original link and then click on the link that says "this data is necessarily incomplete. They will find that the page addresses suicides with the following statement.

    "Suicides, which are estimated to make up as much as 60 percent of gun deaths, typically go unreported. Nevertheless, we at Slate want to assemble the data as best we can."
    Last edited by Live2ride883; 02-06-2013 at 12:32 PM.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  3. #628  

    Default Re: How Many Firearm Deaths In The US Since Sandy Hook Elementary School?

    Until and unless we, collectively, phrase that the tragedies at Newtown, etc are unacceptable (not 'unfortunate'), these episodes will only escalate, becoming worse and more tragic with each one. Guaranteed.

    I feel that personally I was more affected by the shooting Batman in Colorado, than the average American citizen with the loss of my good friend Matt. Although he had moved from Ohio to Colorado we still kept in touch frequently. We were texting while I was in line to get my tickets, and he was getting ready to leave the apartment. I was actually teasing him about the time zones and that I would see it before him. Not a single day goes by that I do not miss him, or think of him. And to have anyone use his senseless murder for their own political gain is reprehensible.

    Matt McQuinn, 27, died protecting girlfriend in Aurora theater shooting - The Denver Post
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  4. #629  
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    Default Re: How Many Firearm Deaths In The US Since Sandy Hook Elementary School?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    /Garbage Removal/
    This is patently SPAM as it is not relevant, whatsoever, to this thread.

    If someone were to open the OP's original link and then click on the link that says "this data is necessarily incomplete. They will find that the page addresses suicides with the following statement.

    "Suicides, which are estimated to make up as much as 60 percent of gun deaths, typically go unreported. Nevertheless, we at Slate want to assemble the data as best we can."
    Unfortunately for your point, the collected data does not include suicides.
  5. #630  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    The new law prohibits the sale of any quantity of ammunition by anyone other than a licensed dealer and requires that such dealer perform a criminal background check on the purchaser and forward the purchaser's name, address, age, and occupation, and the quantity, caliber, and make of the ammunition, to a State Police database. Thus, the ammunition database creates a de facto universal long gun registry. A hunter who purchases a box of five 12-gauge deer slugs may think that his purchase is innocent enough; however, it will have the effect of informing the State Police that he owns a 12-gauge shotgun, enabling them to confiscate it in the future if they so choose.


    Read more: Articles: New York's 'SAFE' Act: The 'Rape' of the Second Amendment
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    If youre not committing any crimes, what's the harm? While criminals may not follow this, this system will regulate ammo, which is exactly what I stated should be done.
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  6. #631  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    The new law prohibits the sale of any quantity of ammunition by anyone other than a licensed dealer and requires that such dealer perform a criminal background check on the purchaser and forward the purchaser's name, address, age, and occupation, and the quantity, caliber, and make of the ammunition, to a State Police database. Thus, the ammunition database creates a de facto universal long gun registry. A hunter who purchases a box of five 12-gauge deer slugs may think that his purchase is innocent enough; however, it will have the effect of informing the State Police that he owns a 12-gauge shotgun, enabling them to confiscate it in the future if they so choose.


    Read more: Articles: New York's 'SAFE' Act: The 'Rape' of the Second Amendment
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    If youre not committing any crimes, what's the harm? While criminals may not follow this, this system will regulate ammo, which is exactly what I stated should be done.
    From the article:

    Shockingly enough, in many ways the "assault weapons ban" is actually one of the statute's lesser infringements on the Second Amendment. The statute criminalizes, potentially criminalizes, or places under state surveillance even the most innocuous, banal, and pedestrian forms of gun ownership, and it restricts the right of self-defense.
    The new law prohibits the sale of any quantity of ammunition by anyone other than a licensed dealer and requires that such dealer perform a criminal background check on the purchaser and forward the purchaser's name, address, age, and occupation, and the quantity, caliber, and make of the ammunition, to a State Police database. Thus, the ammunition database creates a de facto universal long gun registry. A hunter who purchases a box of five 12-gauge deer slugs may think that his purchase is innocent enough; however, it will have the effect of informing the State Police that he owns a 12-gauge shotgun, enabling them to confiscate it in the future if they so choose.

    The purchase of large quantities of ammunition will likely set off alarm bells at State Police headquarters. But what is truly sinister about the ammunition registry is that no one actually knows "how much" will be deemed "too much" -- because the law does not prohibit the purchase or ownership of any specific quantity of ammunition. Thus, one may become the target of a police investigation for engaging in a perfectly legal activity. Since many gun owners have vowed to defy the "assault weapons" registration, it is highly likely that the State Police will use the ammunition database as a means to discover and confiscate unregistered rifles.

    The ammunition registration is crucial to the law's confiscation scheme. The law affirmatively requires that a person's firearms must be confiscated if any order of protection is filed against him -- no matter how bogus the complaint may be. It also requires that a "mental health professional" (including a physician) who believes that an individual is a danger to himself or others must report his diagnosis to the police for purposes of firearm confiscation. Such a diagnosis is highly subjective and could be easily politicized. (For instance, in the 1964 presidential campaign, a group of psychiatrists "diagnosed" conservative Sen. Barry Goldwater as insane.) But the law exempts such "professionals" from civil liability; thus, any "mental health professional" who believes that all gun owners are "nuts" could initiate the confiscation of a person's firearms, and the gun owner is forbidden to file a civil suit to challenge the "diagnosis."

    The SAFE Act also severely infringes on the right of self-defense from criminal predation. Although Article 35 of New York Penal law allows the use of deadly force in the event of a home invasion, the SAFE Act restricts the ammunition capacity of all centerfire guns to seven rounds. If you possess a magazine loaded with more than seven rounds in your own home, you are guilty of a criminal offense.
    So suppose a criminal with a stolen handgun and an illegal 15-round magazine invades your home. If you shoot at him with more than eight rounds (seven plus one in the chamber), you will be criminally charged, and your magazine (and possibly your firearm) will be confiscated and destroyed without compensation, because you have now used it in the commission of a crime. Beyond that, since a handgun permit in New York is not merely a permit to carry, but a permit to possess, after you have been charged with the crime of shooting at the home invader with a high-capacity magazine, your permit will be revoked, and all of your handguns will be confiscated.


    The seven-round magazine limit effectively bans or severely restricts the use of perhaps 75% of the firearms designed in the past 100 years. Seven-round magazines simply do not exist for common firearms such as the 13-shot Browning Hi-Power pistol, first manufactured in 1935, or the 10-shot Ruger 10/22 rifle, five million of which have been manufactured since the 1960s. The M-1 "Garand" rifle, adopted by the U.S. Army in 1936, was designed exclusively to use an eight-round "clip," which will now be considered an illegal "high capacity ammunition feeding device." Although the Act "grandfathers" existing ten-round magazines, it forbids owners to put more than seven rounds in them, and it requires lawful owners of magazines capable of holding more than ten rounds to sell them out of state, surrender them, or destroy them. This is clearly an unconstitutional deprivation of private property, in violation of the Fifth Amendment.
    The law also prohibits the private "sale" or "exchange" of any firearm to any person unless a licensed dealer performs the "sale" and a background check.
    The politically correct law exempts parents, spouses, children, stepchildren and "domestic partners." Thus, the divorced Cuomo may legally give his live-in girlfriend Sandra Lee a firearm without a dealer transfer and background check, but if a serial ****** and murderer (such as the notorious "Bike Path ******" Altemio Sanchez , who terrorized women for three decades while the cops put the wrong guy in prison) is on the loose, you may not give a shotgun to your sister for self-protection. You may give your live-in gay lover a firearm, but you may not give your brother or nephew a .22 rifle on Christmas Eve. The law does not clarify how long someone must be in possession of a firearm before such possession is understood to be an "exchange"; thus, it is possible that lending a rifle to your brother-in-law for deer season without a dealer transfer and a background check could be construed as an illegal "exchange." You would then be a criminal, and the gun used in the "crime" could be confiscated and destroyed.
    Finally, the SAFE Act requires that gun owners report any "loss or theft" of a firearm or ammunition to the police within 24 hours. Failure to do so is a criminal offense. Read literally, a deer hunter in Saranac Lake who drops a single 12-gauge slug in the snow and cannot find it is a criminal unless he reports the loss to the police.

    The New York SAFE Act is one of the most breathtakingly brazen assaults on the Constitution and on individual liberty in the history of the United States. Cuomo has gleefully thumbed his nose at the Supreme Court's Heller and McDonald decisions in 2008 and 2010 affirming the right to keep and bear arms. The intent of the law is to suppress and criminalize the common use of firearms, including guns not defined as "assault weapons."
    The SAFE Act must be resisted on all levels. I urge firearm manufacturers, like Remington and Kimber, to leave New York State as soon as possible and stop paying taxes to a government that seeks to suppress the right to own their products. Firearms wholesalers and police supply outfits should boycott New York State law enforcement agencies. Gun manufacturers should refuse sales and warranty service to police agencies in the state. I strongly counsel residents of other states who value liberty to avoid New York at all costs. Avoid tourist trips to New York City; the law has made a mockery of the Statue of "Liberty." Residents of other states should avoid moving to New York under all but the most dire circumstances, and New York residents should begin making plans to leave as soon as possible.
    New York has the highest taxes in the nation. Twenty-five percent of the population is on Medicaid. It has the highest rate of union membership in the nation. It is ranked as the least "business-friendly" state in the country. There is nothing to be gained in New York (unless you are on welfare). Nothing.
    Above all else, remember that even if you do not live in New York, you cannot be complacent. The gun-banners are coming after you next.


    Read more: Articles: New York's 'SAFE' Act: The 'Rape' of the Second Amendment
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook


    Your answer is A LOT of harm...
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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  7. #632  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    I don't think so. NY has a massive illegal gun, prescription pill abuse, high-tax problem. It was a matter of time until they tried to push legislation through. I'm fine with it because I don't see the need for everyone to own high powered weapons. We have shotguns, 1 ar (NOT an ar-15) and a few hand guns. They need to worry about handguns, in my opinoin.
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  8. #633  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    I don't think so. NY has a massive illegal gun, prescription pill abuse, high-tax problem. It was a matter of time until they tried to push legislation through. I'm fine with it because I don't see the need for everyone to own high powered weapons. We have shotguns, 1 ar (NOT an ar-15) and a few hand guns. They need to worry about handguns, in my opinoin.
    And when will you care? I'm sure someone wants the govt to ban shotguns because they don't like them. No one agrees on everything, but you can't make a law against everything people don't like. Why do people want the government to write a law about something they don't like? DONT BUY ONE!
    I always thought that being liberal was a mindset of live and let live. Very limited government. Except things you don't agree with and demand others do the same.

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  9. #634  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    I don't think so. NY has a massive illegal gun, prescription pill abuse, high-tax problem. It was a matter of time until they tried to push legislation through. I'm fine with it because I don't see the need for everyone to own high powered weapons. We have shotguns, 1 ar (NOT an ar-15) and a few hand guns. They need to worry about handguns, in my opinoin.
    So your OK with the guilty until proven innocent approach because that's exactly what that legislation is getting at.

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  10. #635  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Well, I'm not a liberal. I just don't see the need for gun control...OR to own a bunch of guns. Funny how that works.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    So your OK with the guilty until proven innocent approach because that's exactly what that legislation is getting at.

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    Yes, that is EXACTLY what I wrote. You are really reaching there. Do you live in NY?
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  11. #636  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    So your OK with the guilty until proven innocent approach because that's exactly what that legislation is getting at.

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    I honestly think its more of a political party thing. If your political party says it, you must follow.

    Good thing I'm independent

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  12. #637  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    I honestly think its more of a political party thing. If your political party says it, you must follow.

    Good thing I'm independent

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    Fortunately for those of us who live in blue states we get lumped in with the bat insane liberals and are forced to pay higher taxes. I can't wait to move to a more moderate state.
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  13. #638  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Take a look at the video below, it shows the bullet pattern of several weapons including an ar-15, shotgun and a few pistols. I have several ar-15's and I just placed an order for a few ar-30a1's. I should be able to decide what I need to defend my home, family, property with.

    As a family we enjoy shooting, there are some months that we go thru in excess of 1500 rounds of ammunition between the 5 of us. With myself probably shooting the bulk of that.


    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  14. #639  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    I honestly think its more of a political party thing. If your political party says it, you must follow.

    Good thing I'm independent

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    I carry no political affiliation. I couldn't care less about politics but what I do care about is my freedom and this witch hunt is ridiculous. Same as stopping gay marriage, or not accelerating the death penalty inmates. I just hate terrible legislation.

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  15. #640  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    Well, I'm not a liberal. I just don't see the need for gun control...OR to own a bunch of guns. Funny how that works.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, that is EXACTLY what I wrote. You are really reaching there. Do you live in NY?
    So you'd rather limit a persons free choice even if he is an upstanding citizen?
  16. #641  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    Take a look at the video below, it shows the bullet pattern of several weapons including an ar-15, shotgun and a few pistols. I have several ar-15's and I just placed an order for a few ar-30a1's. I should be able to decide what I need to defend my home, family, property with.

    As a family we enjoy shooting, there are some months that we go thru in excess of 1500 rounds of ammunition between the 5 of us. With myself probably shooting the bulk of that.
    When a manufacturer determines, for its own reasons, to end production of a firearm, are they infringing your rights? Yes or No.
  17. #642  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    I don't think so. NY has a massive illegal gun, prescription pill abuse, high-tax problem. It was a matter of time until they tried to push legislation through. I'm fine with it because I don't see the need for everyone to own high powered weapons. We have shotguns, 1 ar (NOT an ar-15) and a few hand guns. They need to worry about handguns, in my opinoin.
    The problem is, they're not really going after high powered guns, just ones that look scary.
  18. #643  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    I haven't seen it posted. I've also waited, but here goes. FYI, Connecticut has had an assault weapons ban in place for years.

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  19. #644  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    The problem is, they're not really going after high powered guns, just ones that look scary.
    Red herring. It would not matter to you what class of firearm was under scrutiny. Care to prove otherwise?
  20. #645  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    When a manufacturer determines, for its own reasons, to end production of a firearm, are they infringing your rights? Yes or No.
    No but when the federal government bans scary AR15's and shuts down 25 companies who solely produce that gun, then yes absolutely. Because it's a band aid solution to a sucking chest wound.
    Live2ride883 likes this.
  21. #646  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    I haven't seen it posted. I've also waited, but here goes. FYI, Connecticut has had an assault weapons ban in place for years.

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    Hmmm and that didn't work.
    Last edited by Markster1; 02-06-2013 at 05:24 PM.
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  22. #647  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    A parent of a student at sandy hook elementary school testifies before congress.

    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  23. #648  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    No but when the federal government bans scary AR15's and shuts down 25 companies who solely produce that gun, then yes absolutely. Because it's a band aid solution to a sucking chest wound.
    Then the federal government is infringing your civilian rights when it regulates that military firearms are only produced, and distributed, to the military?
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  24. #649  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    A parent of a student at sandy hook elementary school testifies before congress.

    /SNIP/
    Thanks, but you've already made perfectly clear that you support the simpleton's approach to the 2nd Amendment.
  25. #650  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Then the federal government is infringing your civilian rights when it regulates that military firearms are only produced, and distributed, to the military?
    Lol at military firearm. Do those purchased on the civilian side have 3 round burst... no, then you lack a military weapon just a fancy looking rifle.

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