07-14-2014 07:46 AM
- What part of reasonably reducing the likelihood escapes you? No one, at any time, has made the claim that any ban precludes every possible abuse of firearms. Binary logic truly has no place in this discussion.
How many statistically reduced killings makes it worth the removal of certain high-capacity firearms/magazines, leaving Americans to defend themselves with every other firearm on the market? What's the magic number?
If no reduced mortality number can be considered, then this has dissolved into a nation of reason versus absolutism and there can be no reasonable discussion.
That's like saying we have to remove all the vehicles off the roads to prevent a few accidents, taking away your car doesn't restrict your right to travel just the speed in which you are going to get there. The same could be said about airplanes to prevent terrorists from crashing them into buildings.
I have stated many times here that gun deaths happen in one of two ways, either an accident or as a direct result of the commission of a crime. Seriously if a woman kills her rapists during the attack I wanna give her a medal, if a store owner kills someone who is robbing him then he should be held as a community hero. If a mother while protecting her children during a break in at their family home kills the criminal I think she deserves a parade.
Some people want to take away the tool used, others want to remove the criminal that uses the gun. Make the threat of punishment so bad that it holds the criminal in check. Prison should be hard labor, not cable TV, weight rooms and exercise yards, and free medical care which is paid for by my taxes. A criminal has shown by his or her actions that they cannot exist in a reasonable society. Bring back chain gangs, hold the criminal responsible for his actions.
Capital crimes like rape, homicide deserve no less than capital punishment.
Have you ever stopped to wonder why so many violent criminals end up back on the street to commit even more violent crimes?02-12-2013 09:37 AM
While we're about the business of doing absolutely nothing, we should strike down all background checks as well. They only prevented 1.7 MILLION US firearm transactions between 2008-2011 ... mostly due to criminal convictions. We can't have a system that isn't 100% perfect.02-12-2013 11:17 AM
- You've therefore said all that is necessary on this subject as this is the only point which you've made which directly addresses the issue of this thread.
While we're about the business of doing absolutely nothing, we should strike down all background checks as well. They only prevented 1.7 MILLION US firearm transactions between 2008-2011 ... mostly due to criminal convictions. We can't have a system that isn't 100% perfect.
Yet I have to wonder why that simple line is the only thing you choose to refute in the post...?
EXISTING background checks in the state of CT prevented Adam Lanza from purchasing his own ar-15 at a gun store i another town.
We cannot have a perfect system, and sometimes something small is going to get thru, or a criminal is going to find a way around that law and things are going to happen, But that is no reason to take away the right of law abiding citizens.
What I advocate is holding the CRIMINAL responsible for his actions.02-12-2013 11:53 AM
- Yet I have to wonder why that simple line is the only thing you choose to refute in the post...?02-12-2013 12:20 PM
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ02-12-2013 05:10 PM
Sticks and stones roll right off my back.02-12-2013 05:18 PM
- When you [not you, individually] are provided more than ample opportunity to directly address points which are central to the issue at hand ... and they are repeatedly avoided like the plague ... it makes one wonder why that is.
Sticks and stones roll right off my back.02-12-2013 05:20 PM
- 02-12-2013 07:35 PM
- Yet another example of Democrats setting themselves up as above the law.
Democrats Bringing Illegal Aliens as Guests to State of the Union Speech | Stand With Arizona
At the top of the page there is a picture and quote by Democratic Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-IL), who has said
I have only one loyalty, and thats to the immigrant community.
You sir are an elected representative of the citizens of the United States.
Personally, I think as long as anyone is in this country illegally they should be subject to arrest and deportation, anyone caught aiding them or providing the shelter from the law is also a criminal and should do time in prison.
Criminals must fear justice..
Edited to change title to include all issues surrounding the SOTU address.02-12-2013 10:35 PM
Easier access to mental health care, tougher and fully enforced penalties for violent criminals. Celebrate individuals that defend themselves and their families or businesses from criminals. Make the criminal FEAR justice.
Prison should be a deterrent to crime, not a place for free cable, exercise yards, bring back the chain gangs, there's all kinds of trash along the roads that needs picked up. Capital crime deserves capital punishment.
GUN FREE ZONES offer no protection from a madman bent on destruction. Allow teachers that choose to do so to get a carry permit.
1) teach kids that as adults they are responsible for their actions, not mommy or daddy.
2) teach people the proper use and respect for firearms.
Stop labeling gun owners as criminals, and or treating us as second class citizens. We are no different or better than anyone else. We choose to exercise our god given, constitutionally protected right to bear arms. It is our choice to own firearms, if you don't want one that's your choice, but don't make me a criminal for exercising my rights.
Accept the fact that there are some truly evil people in this world, and if they decide to commit an evil act then odds are in their favor simply because we cannot prevent every possible scenario, other than by totally separating ourselves from everyone else and never have any contact with any other human.02-13-2013 12:54 AM
- A video that explores why gun control should be banned and NOT guns, includes an interview from John Stossell with a group of convicted felons stating what they think of gun control laws, background checks, and armed victims. Also discusses the Brady bill.
Gun Control Should Be Outlawed - YouTube02-13-2013 01:57 AM
- 02-13-2013 02:04 PM
- 02-13-2013 02:57 PM
And we are not the minority according to polls that you wish to ignore and statistics you choose to ignore.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ02-13-2013 03:12 PM
- In a nutshell, this is what has what passes for conservatives frozen in fear. And it is, indeed, pathetic.
The NRA's Pathetic Excuses For Opposing Universal Background Checks02-13-2013 04:00 PM
- Kevin OQuinnAC Team EmeritusThis is clearly a thread meant to bait people into an argument. I have a suggestion. Find some nice forums that are dedicated to political discussion and post these topics there.
Thread closed.02-13-2013 05:35 PMLike 3
- In a nutshell, this is what has what passes for conservatives frozen in fear. And it is, indeed, pathetic.
The NRA's Pathetic Excuses For Opposing Universal Background Checks
I'll list my issues with this by each bullet point.
I read in a separate article that when the NRA offered to endorse background checks at gun shows they were told by the government that they didn't feel that it was worth the expense.
1) I have been thru several checks to purchase weapons, and honestly it is a hassle already. What I don't like is the government telling me I have to advise them if/when I want to leave my possessions to my kids, brother etc. If my neighbor and I want swap pistols it's none of their business. If I agree to meet a guy after work to buy a gun, I shouldn't have to go to the police station for a background check at 2:00 am. While the article does state an approximate fee of 5.00-25.00 for this background check, what's to stop them from raising it in the future, or adding a specific gun tax letter on like the now proposed 5% tax on every bullet sold in CA? Honestly I think this fee is wrong just on principle, as a tax payer I am going to have to pay into the fund that will be going to pay for birth control for people like Sandra Fluke,
The 1.7% figure I have problems with, this figure is simply a concensous, and it's based on some really old data. To get this information I linked from the original one provided by CD. By clicking on the link labeled 1.7% The stale claim that 40 percent of gun sales lack background checks - The Washington Post. So that figure could be a lot less, or even more. Personally I have never purchased a firearm from a gun show, and I would not feel comfortable doing so. When I buy a firearm I always purchase from a reputable dealer. I usually go to the same shop for every purchase, I have been going there for more than 20 years. So even though background checks at gun shows would not affect me personally after given the issue more consideration I have to side with those that it would affect and place my self in the against column.
3) If people the majority of people that are flagged on NICS checks are not prosecuted, why bother. Either enforce the law or abolish it. I see no sense in adding another law that isn't going to be enforced anyway, it just causes more problems. This is what Joe Biden was referring to when he said they didn't have time to prosecute every one of these cases. I already linked it a few pages ago.
4) There is definitely cause for concern of entrapment with this.
5) yea, this is too obvious. We already know that Homicidal maniacs, criminals, and the insane don't abide by the law, LaPierre told the senators. Answering a question about background checks, he said, The problem with gun laws is, criminals don't cooperate with them. The mentally ill don't cooperate with them. and if someone that had a restraining order, etc tried to purchase a firearm at a gun show given the absolute abysmal rate of prosecution they would just leave and then purchase weapons on the street.
6) If background checks at gun shows and between individuals becomes law then it will become a personal choice if a citizens decides to obey that law or not. kinda like speeding now, or seat belts.
7) I definitely agree with this, there have already been at least 2 homes that have been broken into as a result of the names of gun owners names and addresses being printed in the journal news in NY. Gun registries are a precursor to gun confiscation, as an example this school board in MO. has no business knowing if there are firearms in my house or not. This information will in no way improve my child's education.02-13-2013 05:40 PM
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