07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. backbeat's Avatar
    No one ... and I mean no one ... is making this about an AR-15 except the gun nutters. Remind them.
    02-20-2013 09:49 PM
  2. cschaepe's Avatar
    Military grade weapons can be owned by citizens. It is a big deal and a lot of money to own one. A semi-automatic rifle is NOT a military grade weapon.

    An AR-15 is a high powered .22 and a semi-auto handgun is not military grade. You seem to think these are automatic machine guns.

    Sent from the AWESOME Note 2 of a girl
    I never did say the word automatic did I? That would seem to be your lie or at least a misrepresentation.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Android Central Forums
    02-20-2013 09:51 PM
  3. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Can't come to terms that you have your choices made for you in a civil society? Bummer, huh?
    Not when they violate the 2nd Amendment . Guess what? The law is not what keeps me from robbing, killing, etc.

    Laws don't stop anyone. They only serve to be able to punish. If laws stopped people then there would be no crime. We don't punish people here for what others do, or we aren't supposed to. I'm not into punishing law abiders for the actions of criminals.

    OK, done with this, not wasting my time with people that aren't even talking facts and truth but rather myth put out there.

    Sent from the AWESOME Note 2 of a girl
    bigdaddytee and Etios like this.
    02-20-2013 09:55 PM
  4. backbeat's Avatar
    Not when they violate the 2nd Amendment
    And you have never had a say in how the 2nd amendment is defined or carried out in society, therefore your peanut-gallery claim of 'violate' is laughable. Nor should you, as mob-mentality is quite prevalent and overly easy to ignite. Yet, you live with the limitations imposed that have defined it. And you will continue to. Funny how that works, isn't it?
    02-20-2013 10:01 PM
  5. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Tell it to this guy: http://www.suntimes.com/csp/cms/site...YPE=image/jpeg [Miami Police Chief John Timoney (pictured in 2007) says assault weapons were used in about 4 percent of all homicides in 2004 in Miami as the ban expired. Now, Timoney says, the number is about 21 percent.

    He may just be more intellectually honest, experienced, and knowledgeable than all the 2nd amendment chickenhawks - combined.

    police-chiefs-are-right-ban-assault-weapons
    A fact that your own link fails to mention is that the specific bushmaster ar-15 used in Colorado is known to jam when you attempt to fire it at a rate above 12-15 rounds per minute. This is a known issue with this weapon.

    More information on automatic weapons..

    The Gun Control Act of 1968 ceased the import of foreign-manufactured fully automatic firearms for civilian sales and possession. The ATF enforced a provision banning importation of small arms from Communist Bloc nations without a trade agreement with the United States. This ban is still enforced with the former Soviet Union republics and post-Communist Eastern European nations without USA trade agreements. A few Communist nations e.g. China and the former Yugoslavia have trade agreements with the United States.

    In 1986, an amendment called the Firearm Owners Protection Act stopped all domestic manufacturing of fully automatic weapons for civilian use. Fully automatic weapons are still manufactured in the US for military and law enforcement use. However, automatic firearms manufactured domestically prior to 1986 or imported prior to 1968 may be transferred between civilians in accordance with federal, state and local law. A number of Soviet and PRC rifles were brought into the U.S. during the mid-1960s, when returning Vietnam veterans brought them home after capture from enemy troops. Some of these were properly registered during the amnesty period under the 1968 NFA law.
    02-20-2013 10:08 PM
  6. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Well you did but I will let that slide. Now that we have agreed that there should restrictions the question is what restrictions. The current proposal revolves around mag size and physical configuration. I haven't heard any lies about the ar15 I know what it can do without having to fire one.

    30000 guns deaths a year and people think the problem is not enough guns.

    Sent from my SCH-I535fire using Android Central Forums
    How many of those 30000 you mentioned were by rifle, shotgun. I believe that according to FBI stats there were more gun deaths committed with shotguns than rifles.
    02-20-2013 10:17 PM
  7. Markster1's Avatar
    That's ok. In fact, one doesn't need personal experience shooting firearms to formulate an opinion on gun control. That's a common and crude tactic used by fanatics to discredit people. Doesn't make the argument any less logical. I've already emphasized my point repeatedly, to which you've also ignored or avoided. I stated that a shotgun is an adequate home defense measure, and that's proven by fact and reason.

    Do you have anything relevant to refute my point or are you just going to use more diversion tactics?

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    You stated that a shotgun was a better weapon than an ar15 but in another post you insinuated (because you have no knowledge) that an ar15 was better than a fully automatic weapon.

    Since you don't know the difference, YOU are NOT qualified to know what a better defensive weapon is......and just for the record, it's not a 2 shot shotgun.
    02-20-2013 10:23 PM
  8. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Not the question asked. Try again?
    That's the only one you get....

    Or as you stated...

    "When it becomes relevant to the issue, you'll be so informed.

    HINT: It will never be relevant to the issue."
    TheOtherBill and bigdaddytee like this.
    02-20-2013 10:24 PM
  9. Markster1's Avatar
    An interesting position from someone who purports to have served in the US military. Tell me ... Did you insist on and gain approval from superiors of using your personal, civilian weapons in place of military-issued firearms while on duty in the US?
    Irrelevant. He used military weapons in that case because they are superior to any non class 3 civilian weapon.
    02-20-2013 10:26 PM
  10. bigdaddytee's Avatar
    Not at all. It's your house. Have you trained in room/structure clearance? Would you choose a long, heavy, unwieldy shotgun for that task?

    Mr. Biden is talking out his posterior, and you haven't answered my question, or indicated if you are in any way familiar with the long list I provided which prove him wrong.

    No, actually, your silence on the subject is answer enough.

    Sent from the red headed stepchild of the Nexii.
    02-20-2013 10:32 PM
  11. droidmyme's Avatar
    You stated that a shotgun was a better weapon than an ar15 but in another post you insinuated (because you have no knowledge) that an ar15 was better than a fully automatic weapon.

    Since you don't know the difference, YOU are NOT qualified to know what a better defensive weapon is......and just for the record, it's not a 2 shot shotgun.
    1. Never stated that the shotgun was a "better weapon" than an AR-15. If you can find where I did, please point it out. I've stated, all along, that a shotgun is adequate for home defense measures.

    2. You are ALSO NOT QUALIFIED to tell me about weapons. I can use caps letters too. I don't see any proof of certification of weapons instruction that you bring.

    3. You haven't even been following my posts to jump in and fling accusations around.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-20-2013 10:32 PM
  12. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    You know what's terrible? I WANT to chime in but I just KNOW that I'm going to end up doing some type of moderating in this thread.

    Pretty sure this conversation already happened, right?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    droidmyme and Aquila like this.
    02-20-2013 10:35 PM
  13. Markster1's Avatar
    And when/if it's decided that military assault weapons are not legal to be owned by civilians the you will be on the wrong side of the law.
    I would love to drive any speed I want but we have passed laws. That sucks for me if we pass an assault weapons ban it will suck for you.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Android Central Forums
    Yet another sheeple ill-informed........AR15's are not military grade fully automatic weapons, they are semi-automatic guns copied only in looks not function.
    02-20-2013 10:36 PM
  14. Live2ride883's Avatar
    An interesting position from someone who purports to have served in the US military.
    Does anyone here besides CD need further proof that I am indeed a veteran?
    02-20-2013 10:37 PM
  15. Markster1's Avatar
    As a citizen in a civil society, that choice is, has, and always will be made for you.



    This simply isn't happening.
    You got democracy confused with communism sister.
    bigdaddytee likes this.
    02-20-2013 10:37 PM
  16. droidmyme's Avatar
    You know what's terrible? I WANT to chime in but I just KNOW that I'm going to end up doing some type of moderating in this thread.

    Pretty sure this conversation already happened, right?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    No no Kevin, please do chime in. Reason always wins out when more people are involved. Any thoughts on what Joe Biden said about self defense?

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-20-2013 10:38 PM
  17. Live2ride883's Avatar
    You know what's terrible? I WANT to chime in but I just KNOW that I'm going to end up doing some type of moderating in this thread.

    Pretty sure this conversation already happened, right?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    I/We would welcome your input/opinion, regardless of any moderating.
    02-20-2013 10:40 PM
  18. bigdaddytee's Avatar
    That's a good point. Despite the protests of Live2Ride, the fact is, the M4 carbine is intended to be a long range weapon. And self defense is about protecting your life. It doesn't require long-range stopping power.

    I don't see how a rifle barrel for long range is necessary for self defense. Sorry. I also have a choice of weapons to defend myself. And I fail to see the need for an assault rifle. In fact, I don't even carry a weapon.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    You are woefully ignorant regarding guns. And ignorance trumps any logic you may attempt while under it's influence. The M16 is a rifle with a 20" barrel. The M4 is a carbine with a 14" or less barrel, specifically created for short range engagement. When the military goes room to room, they use the M4.

    Sent from the red headed stepchild of the Nexii.
    02-20-2013 10:40 PM
  19. droidmyme's Avatar
    Yet another sheeple ill-informed........AR15's are not military grade fully automatic weapons, they are semi-automatic guns copied only in looks not function.
    Actually he didn't say the AR-15 was fully automatic. But even so, it's not hard to see why people can make that mistake when there are conversion kits and guides readily available on the Internet.



    People aren't stupid. It's not that much of a stretch to take a weapon based on a fully automatic assault rifle and convert it.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-20-2013 10:45 PM
  20. Markster1's Avatar
    Talk to the shop owners that successfully drove off robbers with handguns?

    C'mon, this tit for tat is kind of silly.

    *edit* oh, and you didn't refute the fact that the M4 is a long range weapon? You're a military guy, you know that.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    A rifle by definition has a rifled barrel which stabilizes the bullet in flight versus a shotgun having a smooth bore where spread is desired and long range is not wanted.

    But guess what? 00 buck has more penetration than a 223 round so in a litigious society you have far less chances of unintended over-penetration.
    bigdaddytee likes this.
    02-20-2013 10:46 PM
  21. droidmyme's Avatar
    Does anyone here besides CD need further proof that I am indeed a veteran?
    No sir. I don't have any reason to doubt your service.

    I enjoy debating, but I like to keep it civil. So thank you for your service to the country

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-20-2013 10:47 PM
  22. Markster1's Avatar
    What does one expect from the intellectually unarmed?
    There you go, insulting people again.
    02-20-2013 10:49 PM
  23. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I can't become involved in the discussion/debate and also moderate it. It's just not in good form.

    That being said, it needs to NOT get personal.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    02-20-2013 10:51 PM
  24. droidmyme's Avatar
    You are woefully ignorant regarding guns. And ignorance trumps any logic you may attempt while under it's influence. The M16 is a rifle with a 20" barrel. The M4 is a carbine with a 14" or less barrel, specifically created for short range engagement. When the military goes room to room, they use the M4.

    Sent from the red headed stepchild of the Nexii.
    Oops :o

    So the M4 carbine is shorter range and more compact than the M16 yeah I didn't know that.

    Still doesn't make my original point wrong
    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-20-2013 10:53 PM
  25. Markster1's Avatar
    And I'm not going to argue with you on that. I agree with you that you have the right to defend yourself.

    I think the point Biden is trying to make, and I'd argue it's a reasonable one, is that self defense doesn't require 30 rounds of rifle caliber ammunition. It's hard for me to imagine a plausible scenario of home burglary defense where that level of firepower is necessary.

    Joe Biden is saying, you can defend your home with a shotgun just as well. And I can't see any reason to disagree with him, tbh.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    You did make the point of 30 rounds and I think we all know the weapon of choice you are riding the band wagon over.
    02-20-2013 10:59 PM
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