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  1. #1051  
    backbeat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    Show me from your timeline that people were restricted on the types of guns they could own.
    You've shown no willingness to discuss, but only demonstrate partisan pettiness like live2ride. I have no obligation, nor am I compelled, to provide your education. As I see it from all your past history, pearls-to-swine is the phrase which springs to mind.
  2. #1052  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    That's not gun safety, that's gun censorship.

    Gun safety would be never pointing a gun at someone.
    Unless you're defending yourself or your property, and if you are willing to point it you should be prepared to use it.
  3. #1053  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    What the general population fails to see is the slow erosion of our rights. The government trims a little here, takes a bit there. They claim it is for our own good, for our safety. Then over time this conditions us to thinking that the government knows best.

    In a pre-9/11 US we as citizens would never have stood for an agency like the TSA. That searches 3-4 year old little girls that are in wheelchairs because they "could/might" be a threat.

    Never before have we had a president that has been worshiped as the second coming (just use any search engine and type church of obama-christ)

    Never before have we had a president sign so many executive orders granting himself such expansive emergency powers and those same executive orders allow him to determine what events quality as such an emergency.

    When I read items like the Constitution, or the federalist papers I am in awe of the wisdom our founding fathers showed when drafting both.

    Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
  4. #1054  
    Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Considering the author of idiotic claims such as Obama's Forged Docs, "Should" Obama be impeached, Obama DIRECTLY funds HAMAS, etc, nothing is beyond this person. Besides, have you seen his original, long-form birth certificate?
    Character attacks are honestly petty. Argue and debate based on fact, please.



    For the record, I'm not above closing the entire section if we can't stay away from making this personal.
  5. #1055  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by crackcookie View Post
    I think the point of a shotgun is, that you don't have to use it. Just the sound of cocking it or even firing it into the ground/air, will make intruders run scared.
    Firing a bullet into the ground or air is irresponsible under any circumstance, that bullet is going to come down eventually and you will have absolutely no control over where, and a bullet fired into the ground could ricochet and hit anyone standing in the vicinity.
  6. #1056  
    backbeat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Quinn View Post
    Character attacks are honestly petty. Argue and debate based on fact, please.

    For the record, I'm not above closing the entire section if we can't stay away from making this personal.
    Contained within each of those threads, the premise of each of which have been thoroughly debunked, are more opportunities to retract the premise of the thread title than can be counted. Holding the author accountable for not posting an unequivocal retraction is not in any way intended as a personal or a character attack. Your point is taken and appreciated.
  7. #1057  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by crackcookie View Post
    I think the point of a shotgun is, that you don't have to use it. Just the sound of cocking it or even firing it into the ground/air, will make intruders run scared.
    If a criminal breaks into my house that criminal will be stopped by whatever weapon I have closest at hand. Which will vary depending on the time of day, and where I am located in the house. I keep a S&W .40 locked and loaded with me through the day. My wife keeps a 9mm with her during her day.


    If I point a firearm at someone I am prepared to shoot that person.
  8. #1058  
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    Never before have we had a president sign so many executive orders granting himself such expansive emergency powers and those same executive orders allow him to determine what events quality as such an emergency.
    Executive Order Score-card:

    GWBush: 291 VS Barack Obama (to date): 144

    What rights do you possess when Habeas Corpus is rescinded, as GWBush did within the Protect America Act/2007? None!

    Where were your forum posts insisting GWBush be impeached?

    Where are your posts celebrating the fact that President Obama restored Habeas Corpus?
    msndrstood likes this.
  9. #1059  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    droidmemy I hope you will watch the following video which will demonstrate the impact of various weapons of several types from a 9mm, ar-15, shotgun, etc.

    I did watch the video Live2ride883. The AR-15 is a great rifle - low recoil, high magazine, lightweight, and powerful.

    Still no reason to make it legal when a shotgun is adequate for home defense, as the Vice President says.

    For all the partisan tit for tat, the fact is, you still cannot provide a single valid reason why Biden's basic argument is wrong, that makes sense to the average American. I don't think I need to engage in the petty and circular arguments anymore, just a waste of time.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
  10. #1060  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    Unless you're defending yourself or your property, and if you are willing to point it you should be prepared to use it.
    I deferred saying that because CD would be quick to call you a gun fanatic because you would defend your life with one.
  11. #1061  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    You've shown no willingness to discuss, but only demonstrate partisan pettiness like live2ride. I have no obligation, nor am I compelled, to provide your education. As I see it from all your past history, pearls-to-swine is the phrase which springs to mind.
    Yep, that's what I thought. You can't show me because it's not there. Keep that head in the sand.....
  12. #1062  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    So by that argument, the scientists who developed morphine were druggies, because they needed "personal experience"?

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    But narcotics are used for good purposes in the medical field. Millions of people abuse them. Should we then ban all narcotics? A tool is not responsible for what it does, the person using it is.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Android Central Forums
    Live2ride883 and Etios like this.
  13. #1063  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    But whats the goal in getting assault rifles off the street?

    Its not to get high powered guns banned, there are far far more powerful guns that are legal.

    Its not to drastically reduce gun deaths when most homicides are done with pistols.

    Its not to stop high capacity killing when someone with 10rd magazines could achieve the same effect.....who is going to charge someone with a gun?

    Tougher laws addressing the criminals and maybe just maybe, the "grace" of GOD, will reduce violence in our streets.

    Sure, if you remove an ar15, you may remove the chance of another newtown but you may have also prevented a person's ability to defend themselves as well. Yep, both of them could use another type of gun....logic runs both ways.

    There's another underlying power going after the "ar15" and when they get that they'll target other weapons until voila, guns are gone. Then you'll see who the real criminals are!
    That's fine but the topic of the thread is self defense, and you want to broaden it to include every issue related to gun control and the exact specifications of certain weapons, which is beyond the scope of the average American.

    Typical right wing tactic, aka, I have no valid reason to refute the argument, therfore let me change the argument to something else.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
  14. #1064  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    I did watch the video Live2ride883. The AR-15 is a great rifle - low recoil, high magazine, lightweight, and powerful.

    Still no reason to make it legal when a shotgun is adequate for home defense, as the Vice President says.

    For all the partisan tit for tat, the fact is, you still cannot provide a single valid reason why Biden's basic argument is wrong, that makes sense to the average American. I don't think I need to engage in the petty and circular arguments anymore, just a waste of time.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    What titles does Biden hold that make him a gun expert. What personal experience does he have that proves 2 are better than 30. What facts had he presented that proves his point.

    Just because somebody says something doesn't make it true unless they can substantiate it with facts.
  15. #1065  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Executive Order Score-card:

    GWBush: 291 VS Barack Obama (to date): 144

    What rights do you possess when Habeas Corpus is rescinded, as GWBush did within the Protect America Act/2007? None!

    Where were your forum posts insisting GWBush be impeached?

    Where are your posts celebrating the fact that President Obama restored Habeas Corpus?

    Bush had 8 full years in office, Obama has only had 4 so far.

    My post wasn't just about the numbers it had more to do with the powers he is granting himself and future presidents in emergency situations.
  16. #1066  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Executive Order Score-card:

    GWBush: 291 VS Barack Obama (to date): 144

    What rights do you possess when Habeas Corpus is rescinded, as GWBush did within the Protect America Act/2007? None!

    Where were your forum posts insisting GWBush be impeached?

    Where are your posts celebrating the fact that President Obama restored Habeas Corpus?

    I wasn't a member here when bush was president, I joined in 2011. So a thread concerning bush's impeachment would have been kind of foolish.
  17. #1067  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    That's fine but the topic of the thread is self defense, and you want to broaden it to include every issue related to gun control and the exact specifications of certain weapons, which is beyond the scope of the average American.

    Typical right wing tactic, aka, I have no valid reason to refute the argument, therfore let me change the argument to something else.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    That's fine then, please refer to post 158.

    Just cause the v-prez sayz don't make it fly right.
  18. #1068  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    Bush had 8 full years in office, Obama has only had 4 so far.

    My post wasn't just about the numbers it had more to do with the powers he is granting himself and future presidents in emergency situations.
    Strange how Obama is starting to take on things he shied away from the first 4 years. Was it because they weren't important?
  19. #1069  
    backbeat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    Bush had 8 full years in office, Obama has only had 4 so far.

    My post wasn't just about the numbers it had more to do with the powers he is granting himself and future presidents in emergency situations.
    Do you understand that without Habeas Corpus, all other rights are a mere illusion as you have no right to be secure in your own person?

    Do you understand that only the Protect America Act/2007 solely awarded the President the authority to define/determine what was "legal"?

    Again, where were your calls for GWBush's impeachment? On ANY forum?

    Again, when did you make posts thanking President Obama for restoring Habeas Corpus? On ANY forum?

    Consistency and integrity matter.
  20. #1070  
    Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by droidmyme View Post
    I did watch the video Live2ride883. The AR-15 is a great rifle - low recoil, high magazine, lightweight, and powerful.

    Still no reason to make it legal when a shotgun is adequate for home defense, as the Vice President says.

    For all the partisan tit for tat, the fact is, you still cannot provide a single valid reason why Biden's basic argument is wrong, that makes sense to the average American. I don't think I need to engage in the petty and circular arguments anymore, just a waste of time.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    I will just say this. I might prefer one type of weapon over another. It doesn't matter what the reason is. The argument is about taking choice away. Don't take my choice away is all I'm saying. All types of weapons that are being discussed only fire one round at a time, and neither one is so large that it will go through multiple walls (in the case of a shotgun or .233 caliber neither will most likely), so it boils down to choice.

    I don't own any firearms. That's my choice. You can't force me to own one. That would be wrong. So don't do the opposite and take my ability to choose to own one away.

    The idea behind the Second Amendment is for the populace to be able to defend themselves against an oppressive government. The reason it was written in the first place was to guarantee that the government wouldn't turn back in to what it was in the 1700's, a Monarchy. I'm not trying to argue the definition of reasonable, but someone choosing to own an assault-weapon STYLE of firearm is a choice. It's no different than owning a hunting rifle in functionality, only in appearance.

    Being able to convert to auto or 3-round burst isn't a valid argument, either, because then at that point you're talking about someone breaking the law, where the idea is to not punish those that wish to follow the law, and exercise their rights.

    There. That's what I wanted to say, more or less.

    Now let's not get personal, because if Moderating needs to happen in this thread it won't be by me, and I can't guarantee another Mod won't just hand out infractions and/or temp bans and/or close the thread.
  21. #1071  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    What titles does Biden hold that make him a gun expert. What personal experience does he have that proves 2 are better than 30. What facts had he presented that proves his point.

    Just because somebody says something doesn't make it true unless they can substantiate it with facts.
    What titles does he need to hold? Does one need to hold a title to shoot a gun? Because then you are suggesting that guns should be more regulated so that certification is required to operate them. Seems kind of ironic that someone who is pushing for deregulation wants titles and expert opinion.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
  22. #1072  
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Unfortunately, this is not an academic argument where no one is harmed in the process. To date, 2,033 murders have taken place by firearm in the US since Sandy Hook. The NRA and its flying-monkey brigade would have us think that nothing can be done. Even going so far as to show their hypocrisy in supporting - before they removed their support - for universal background checks, to include gun-show sales. With Rights come responsibilities. Not just to yourself, but to our society at large.

    I've posted within this thread that Miami-Dade, one of the most violent crime areas in the nation, experienced a 66% reduction in their homicide rate associated with these firearms during the previous ban on assault weapons. This is a fact not in dispute.

    Products of all types are removed from the market due to injury and death all the time. While a drug may have proven therapeutic for you, it may have harmed enough to warrant its removal from the market. This is how a civil, responsible society operates. Nothing precludes any gun owner from continuing to protect their life or property adequately. Nothing.
  23. #1073  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Droidmemy, an ar-15 is a lot easier to handle than a shotgun. It can be operated more safely from cover than a shotgun can. It is more accurate, so there is less chance of collateral damage. There is less recoil, which means if additional shots are necessary then you can acquire your target faster.

    An ar-15 is easier to load in a hurry than a shotgun, it is also easier to load in the dark.
  24. #1074  

    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Unfortunately, this is not an academic argument where no one is harmed in the process. To date, 2.033 murders have taken place by firearm in the US since Sandy Hook. The NRA and its flying-monkey brigade would have us think that nothing can be done. Even going so far as to show their hypocrisy in supporting - before they removed their support - for universal background checks, to include gun-show sales. With Rights come responsibilities. Not just to yourself, but to our society at large.

    I've posted within this thread that Miami-Dade, one of the most violent crime areas in the nation, experienced a 66% reduction in their homicide rate associated with these firearms during the previous ban on assault weapons. This is a fact not in dispute.

    Products of all types are removed from the market due to injury and death all the time. While a drug may have proven therapeutic for you, it may have harmed enough to warrant its removal from the market. This is how a civil, responsible society operates. Nothing precludes any gun owner from continuing to protect their life or property adequately. Nothing.

    I think there have been more than 2.033 murders since sandy hook, i am going to assume this was simply a typo and what you intended was 2,033 but you certainly love to throw that number out for everyone to see.

    How many of those were committed with handguns versus rifles, ar-15's that have become the poster child for gun control laws versus other types of rifles.


    Look at Chicago, until recently with the NY safe act, they had the toughest gun control laws in the United States. Yet they also have the highest murder rate.

    Gun control laws are never about the guns and are always about the control.
  25. #1075  
    Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joe Biden tips for self-defense: get a shotgun

    We could try, you know, actually enforcing the laws that are already around. The problem really becomes the fact that you can never prevent random acts of violence, and you have even less chance preventing premeditated acts of violence.

    Also, since people are so FOR preemptive removal of certain types of firearms to prevent crime and murder (and other things of course), then why are some of those same people against the drone strikes (or insert other preemptive measure there) that serves the same purpose, but on a potentially much larger scale?
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