07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. backbeat's Avatar
    Its primary purpose is to go fast. To speed. Which makes it capable of breaking a law. What you're saying is that one thing has the capability of performing an illegal act and should be banned, but the other thing shouldn't.
    No, its primary purpose is transportation. The same as every other vehicle approved by the US government for use on US roads. If used as a weapon to kill others, resulting in vehicular homicide/manslaughter, then and only then can a vehicle be compared to murder/homicide-via-firearm rates.
    02-21-2013 04:55 PM
  2. Markster1's Avatar
    No, its primary purpose is transportation. The same as every other vehicle approved by the US government for use on US roads. If used as a weapon to kill others, resulting in vehicular homicide/manslaughter, then and only then can a vehicle be compared to murder/homicide-via-firearm rates.
    But we know that the faster you travel the greater the danger you present to other people.

    So you knew the dangers and did it anyway, instead of punishing you for killing 3 people, we're just going to ban the vette.
    02-21-2013 05:04 PM
  3. Live2ride883's Avatar
    The primary uses of an ar-15 are defense, hunting, sport and target shooting.
    02-21-2013 05:05 PM
  4. backbeat's Avatar
    But we know that the faster you travel the greater the danger you present to other people.

    So you knew the dangers and did it anyway, instead of punishing you for killing 3 people, we're just going to ban the vette.
    If you want to compare vehicle accidents resulting in death (versus the use of a vehicle with intent to do harm to another person) to accidental firearm deaths, go right ahead.
    02-21-2013 05:07 PM
  5. Markster1's Avatar
    I'm a gun owner and enthusiast myself, but that logic is a bit flimsy. Functionally, it is the same/similar and every bit as "deadly" in the right hands.
    The major difference and the one people who wish to ban the AR15 fail to distinguish is that, military versions have the ability to fire more than one bullet with one press of the trigger.

    Civilian versions like every other gun civilians can purchase legally can only fire one bullet with one press of the trigger.

    Functionally, a major difference!
    02-21-2013 05:08 PM
  6. Markster1's Avatar
    If you want to compare vehicle accidents resulting in death (versus the use of a vehicle with intent to do harm to another person) to accidental firearm deaths, go right ahead.
    I'm comparing the illogical thinking going into banning an ar15 or a vette. Same thing IMO, YMMV.

    Thank God we can voice differences of opinion still in this country.

    Freedom of speech is going out the window right after guns do.
    02-21-2013 05:11 PM
  7. droidmyme's Avatar
    Its primary purpose is to go fast. To speed. Which makes it capable of breaking a law. What you're saying is that one thing has the capability of performing an illegal act and should be banned, but the other thing shouldn't.

    I also get this feeling that you're real close to being convinced that the AR-15 is not as bad as you first thought it was.
    Well I would admit that you have some valid counterpoints. I tend to see myself as a moderate. But I think that tragedies like Sandy Hook should never be allowed to happen again.

    I am very much in favor of gun control. There are other, rational and effective means of self defense. There is no good reason why anyone should need an assault rifle.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-21-2013 05:13 PM
  8. droidmyme's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure I won't convince anyone in this thread who's already made up their minds. No point arguing with a person who has their head stuck in the sand. I quit.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-21-2013 05:16 PM
  9. rexxman's Avatar
    I'm comparing the illogical thinking going into banning an ar15 or a vette. Same thing IMO, YMMV.

    Thank God we can voice differences of opinion still in this country.

    Freedom of speech is going out the window right after guns do.
    What? Now you are afraid that freedom of speech is threatened?

    I hope you just jest.

    Blue 32gb Galaxy S3
    02-21-2013 05:23 PM
  10. Live2ride883's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure I won't convince anyone in this thread who's already made up their minds. No point arguing with a person who has their head stuck in the sand. I quit.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    So anyone with a different view than yours or the VP's has their hand stuck in the sand?
    02-21-2013 05:24 PM
  11. Markster1's Avatar
    What? Now you are afraid that freedom of speech is threatened?

    I hope you just jest.

    Blue 32gb Galaxy S3
    Hey if you don't ban the guns, I won't ban your mouth, fair enough?
    02-21-2013 05:26 PM
  12. droidmyme's Avatar
    So anyone with a different view than yours or the VP's has their hand stuck in the sand?
    Nope. A person who won't listen to reason because they love a gun, has their head stuck in the sand.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-21-2013 05:27 PM
  13. Markster1's Avatar
    Well I would admit that you have some valid counterpoints. I tend to see myself as a moderate. But I think that tragedies like Sandy Hook should never be allowed to happen again.

    I am very much in favor of gun control. There are other, rational and effective means of self defense. There is no good reason why anyone should need an assault rifle.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    I'm not in favor of gun control for the simple fact that criminals don't abide by the law, it's not going to work for the criminal element.

    My other beef is just a question you guys won't even consider and that is, why are elements in the government only going after the ar15?

    Why not the handguns? They are much easier to conceal, can do just as much damage just as fast and statistically done far more killing than the ar15.

    Think about it instead of dismissing it out of hand for nought.
    02-21-2013 05:32 PM
  14. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    A quick Google gave me these results (this was the top result, I didn't click on any others). They are from 09 obviously. Since we're counting accidental deaths that would also include deaths related to drunk driving (arguably the easiest statistic to find). Take it for what it's worth.

    We could go on and on about this honestly. My main point is (and has been) that I don't want my choice of what to use to defend my home made for me. I could use the word reasonable, but then we'd argue over what that means. There are just too many types of weapons, with many different sizes of rounds (and then even types of rounds within those sizes) for us to come to an agreement.

    I would say for pistols limit to a certain size round, but because they have no long range capability that might not be reasonable, or for rifles do the same, but then what size because they have longer range. Shotguns have shorter range, but their rounds do FAR more damage than, say, a .223. So then where would they be limited? So maybe the solution is to have a maximum round size (oh but then what about speed? see what I mean?), magazine capacity (I'm less inclined to go along with this), and have them limited to one round per pull of the trigger (pretty sure this is already the case). Too many variables to really come to an agreement IMO.
    Live2ride883 likes this.
    02-21-2013 05:33 PM
  15. Markster1's Avatar
    Nope. A person who won't listen to reason because they love a gun, has their head stuck in the sand.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    A person who can't listen to reason because they hate a gun they've never met therefore has their head up their.......uhm. :what:

    Yep, it all comes down to the insults don't it? If I can't convince you I'm right then I fling snot in your direction lol.

    Monty Python verbage
    02-21-2013 05:38 PM
  16. soma4society's Avatar
    A slide-action, sawed off shotgun is ideal for home defense. In most cases the racking sound alone would be enough to give any but the most determined intruder pause. And by having a wide scatter, u counteract that other niggling little fact: that in most situations involving high stress and the threat of immanent violence, poorly trained or untrained ppl are prone to *miss* ....even at close distances.

    I used to have several guns in mi casa. I don't now, but if I were to go back to ownership with defense in mind, I wouldnt even consider a handgun. ID go straight to the shot guns. Just my 0.2.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    msndrstood likes this.
    02-21-2013 05:48 PM
  17. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Another problem to consider is when the high capacity mags and ar15 assault weapons have been handled and these mentally unstable people decide to go in a school with something else. Let's say a couple of 12 gauge shotguns, that will be the next banned item on the list. It will never end. This is a people problem.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Android Central Forums
    02-21-2013 06:04 PM
  18. droidmyme's Avatar
    Originally Posted by droidmyme
    Well I would admit that you have some valid counterpoints. I tend to see myself as a moderate. But I think that tragedies like Sandy Hook should never be allowed to happen again.

    I am very much in favor of gun control. There are other, rational and effective means of self defense. There is no good reason why anyone should need an assault rifle.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    I'm not in favor of gun control for the simple fact that criminals don't abide by the law, it's not going to work for the criminal element.
    It's true that criminals don't abide by the law. However, most guns that fall into the hands of criminals were purchased legally, not stolen. Did you know that?

    One ATF agent cites '' only 10-15% of guns" used in crimes were stolen. According to a 1994 report, the number one source of guns in crimes came from so called "straw purchases." The number two source? Rogue or corrupt FFL dealers.

    Are you still convinced we don't need better gun control laws?

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html


    My other beef is just a question you guys won't even consider and that is, why are elements in the government only going after the ar15?

    Why not the handguns?
    If you want to outlaw categories of weapons to prevent mass shootings, would you outlaw handguns with small magazines, or assault rifles with large magazines?

    Think about it instead of dismissing it out of hand for nought.
    I did. You make some good points, but the fact is, gun control laws are too lax currently.


    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-21-2013 06:06 PM
  19. droidmyme's Avatar
    Originally Posted by droidmyme
    Nope. A person who won't listen to reason because they love a gun, has their head stuck in the sand.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    A person who can't listen to reason because they hate a gun they've never met therefore has their head up their.......uhm. :what:

    Yep, it all comes down to the insults don't it? If I can't convince you I'm right then I fling snot in your direction lol.

    Monty Python verbage
    Could you show me the quote where I said I hate the AR-15?

    Please don't put words in my mouth and accuse me of making false statements. Thanks.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-21-2013 06:09 PM
  20. Live2ride883's Avatar
    We do not need gun control, we need solutions for crime control. Criminals commit murder either on a large scale like Aurora, or Sandy Hook. As well as a one on one murder during a robbery, rape etc. Those are the people you have to keep guns away from.

    First of all a federal mandate that states if you commit a capital crime your life is forfeit. Make rape a capital crime. If you use a firearm to commit a crime it automatically adds 10 years to the end of your sentence. If someone is injured with that firearm during the commission of a crime it adds 15 years.

    Make prison a deterrent to crime, hard labor, chain gangs not free cable TV, medical care, and weight lifting equipment.

    Hold the criminal responsible for the crime he or she commits.
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    02-21-2013 06:18 PM
  21. droidmyme's Avatar
    Lol. What you fail to realize is that tighter gun control laws would reduce the availability of guns to criminals, and therefore, by extension, reduce violent crime.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-21-2013 06:21 PM
  22. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Lol. What you fail to realize is that tighter gun control laws would reduce the availability of guns to criminals, and therefore, by extension, reduce violent crime.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    And that worked so well during prohibition, pot, cocaine and the list goes on.
    02-21-2013 06:27 PM
  23. Markster1's Avatar
    Could you show me the quote where I said I hate the AR-15?

    Please don't put words in my mouth and accuse me of making false statements. Thanks.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    Show me where I said ar15 lol, I just said a gun you never met.
    02-21-2013 06:31 PM
  24. Markster1's Avatar
    Are you still convinced we don't need better gun laws?
    I do believe we need to enforce laws on the books now and enact laws that address the criminal and criminalize the act not the weapon and the law abiding citizen.
    droidmyme likes this.
    02-21-2013 06:34 PM
  25. droidmyme's Avatar
    And that worked so well during prohibition, pot, cocaine and the list goes on.
    I'm not making the connection between my comment and Prohibition? Sorry.

    Show me where I said ar15 lol, I just said a gun you never met.
    Oops sorry :o

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-21-2013 06:34 PM
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