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  1. #1301  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Chosen414 View Post
    Right wing propaganda.... at the end of the day, making machine and assault rifles, harder to get or illegal to have, is the smartest idea we've had since limitimg terms in office. im a centrist yet even i know something had to be done about availabilty of assault weapons on the streets...carry yur pistols, or shot guns, rifles, i mean hell even i've got my ccw, and i carry my .38 with me everywhere but inside my job. but at the end of the day, after all the school shootings, movie shootings, mall shootings, over the last 5 years, it couldnt be avoided any longer.
    There are more people killed by hammers every year than there are by rifles.
  2. #1302  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Thanks for the admission that it matters not to your side of this issue if this $tunt is a paper tiger or not. Yet, it is being celebrated (by a blog & the OP) as if these companies are sacrificing something for "the cause". Can't have it both ways.
    Thanks for your admission that since gun control advocates are sacrificing nothing then their cause is not meaningful nor does it matter.

    I don't care what kind of phone you have, that's not how I judge someone's worth or intelligence.
  3. #1303  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by metz65 View Post
    Thanks for your admission that since gun control advocates are sacrificing nothing then their cause is not meaningful nor does it matter.
    2,281 firearm murders/homicides since December 14, 2012 (Sandy Hook) is sacrifice enough. The bipolar game of indefensible circular logic is over. Goodbye.
    msndrstood and droidmyme like this.
  4. #1304  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    There are more people killed by hammers every year than there are by rifles.
    show me that data first of all, and second, regardless of how many were killed, the way in which they were killed, (not to take away anything from any death, its all sad honestly) but for a 17 year old to be able to acquire an ak or an ar, is ridiculous, and for that same 17 year old to be able to make his way to a movie theatre, or a school, or a mall and massacre an absurd amount of ppl is crazy, as opposed to two men getting into a disagreemen and one to take it too far and swing a hammer upside the others head....just being frank, obtaining high powered machince guns needs to be controlled, period. do i fell as if some of these states are going overboard yes. but at the end of the day, each and every state has that power...State governments control their own, while federal only upholds the constituion and handles the finances of the states. (at least thats the way its supposed to be)...
  5. #1305  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    There are more people killed by hammers every year than there are by rifles.
    False. The catchall category of blunt objects includes hammers, clubs, etc ... Meaning all objects which were not designed/intended to be used as a weapon.



    Assault weapons kill more people within a single incident than any other weapon. How long did it take Loughner to empty his 33-round clip, inflicting 33 wounds? 15 seconds.

    These are the facts and they are inconvenient.
    msndrstood likes this.
  6. #1306  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post

    Assault weapons kill more people within a single incident than any other weapon. How long did it take Loughner to empty his 33-round clip, inflicting 33 wounds? 15 seconds.

    These are the facts and they are inconvenient.

    Worst School Massacre in US history: Bath, Michigan School Massacre. 1927. Murder accomplished with explosives. 44 victims (equal to the Columbine and Virginia Tech massacres combined).

    Worst Domestic Terrorist Attack in US History: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building bombing. 4/19/95. Murder accomplished with a rental truck full of fertilizer based explosives. 168 dead (including many children in an onsite day care).

    Worst Foreign based Terrorist Attack in US History: September 11, 2001 attacks on NYC, PA, Pentagon. Murder accomplished with box cutters and commerical airliners. 3,000 people dead.

    no guns needed

    These are facts even if they are inconvenient.

    I don't care what kind of phone you have, that's not how I judge someone's worth or intelligence.
  7. #1307  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    There are more people killed by hammers every year than there are by rifles.
    This may be true, and it may not be true. Why don't you link to your sources when citing statistics?

    Is this how the gun lobby intends to defeat their opponents in debate? "I don't have any sources to back up my claims, just believe me if I say it."

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
  8. #1308  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    False. The catchall category of blunt objects includes hammers, clubs, etc ... Meaning all objects which were not designed/intended to be used as a weapon.

    http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/...er-victims.png

    Assault weapons kill more people within a single incident than any other weapon. How long did it take Loughner to empty his 33-round clip, inflicting 33 wounds? 15 seconds.

    These are the facts and they are inconvenient.
    In my haste due to the personal nature of this discussion I admit that I misspoke, and specified hammers when I should have stated blunt objects.

    Thanks for the data though...
    ------
    While the FBI makes is clear that some of the "murder by rifle" numbers could be adjusted up slightly, when you take into account murders with non-categorized types of guns, it does not change the fact that their annual reports consistently show more lives are taken each year with these blunt objects than are taken with Feinstein's dreaded rifle.

    Another interesting fact: According to the FBI, nearly twice as many people are killed by hands and fists each year than are killed by murderers who use rifles.

    Read more: FBI: More People Killed with Hammers, Clubs Each Year Than Rifles | Gun Rights | Fox Nation
  9. #1309  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    The quote actually fits when you consider the actual truth within the goal of the NY Safe act.

    The seven-round magazine limit effectively bans or severely restricts the use of perhaps 75% of the firearms designed in the past 100 years. Seven-round magazines simply do not exist for common firearms such as the 13-shot Browning Hi-Power pistol, first manufactured in 1935, or the 10-shot Ruger 10/22 rifle, five million of which have been manufactured since the 1960s. The M-1 "Garand" rifle, adopted by the U.S. Army in 1936, was designed exclusively to use an eight-round "clip," which will now be considered an illegal "high capacity ammunition feeding device." Although the Act "grandfathers" existing ten-round magazines, it forbids owners to put more than seven rounds in them, and it requires lawful owners of magazines capable of holding more than ten rounds to sell them out of state, surrender them, or destroy them. This is clearly an unconstitutional deprivation of private property, in violation of the Fifth Amendment.

    The most widely reported provision of the law is the total ban on the sale of military-style rifles classified as "assault weapons," effective Jan. 15. The provision forever prohibits anyone other than a law enforcement agency from acquiring such weapons, including the popular hunting and target variants of the AR-15 rifle. Current owners of such rifles must register them with the state by 2014, and the registration must be renewed every five years. This gives the state a list of persons from which to confiscate them in the future, and the five-year renewal provision gives the state an excuse to find ways to deny ownership once every five years. Current owners of such rifles may never sell them to another New York State resident in the future.

    The new law prohibits the sale of any quantity of ammunition by anyone other than a licensed dealer and requires that such dealer perform a criminal background check on the purchaser and forward the purchaser's name, address, age, and occupation, and the quantity, caliber, and make of the ammunition, to a State Police database.


    The purchase of large quantities of ammunition will likely set off alarm bells at State Police headquarters. But what is truly sinister about the ammunition registry is that no one actually knows "how much" will be deemed "too much" -- because the law does not prohibit the purchase or ownership of any specific quantity of ammunition. Thus, one may become the target of a police investigation for engaging in a perfectly legal activity. Since many gun owners have vowed to defy the "assault weapons" registration, it is highly likely that the State Police will use the ammunition database as a means to discover and confiscate unregistered rifles.


    the ammunition database creates a de facto universal long gun registry. A hunter who purchases a box of five 12-gauge deer slugs may think that his purchase is innocent enough; however, it will have the effect of informing the State Police that he owns a 12-gauge shotgun, enabling them to confiscate it in the future if they so choose.

    The ammunition registration is crucial to the law's confiscation scheme. The law affirmatively requires that a person's firearms must be confiscated if any order of protection is filed against him -- no matter how bogus the complaint may be. It also requires that a "mental health professional" (including a physician) who believes that an individual is a danger to himself or others must report his diagnosis to the police for purposes of firearm confiscation. Such a diagnosis is highly subjective and could be easily politicized.

    The SAFE Act also severely infringes on the right of self-defense from criminal predation. Although Article 35 of New York Penal law allows the use of deadly force in the event of a home invasion, the SAFE Act restricts the ammunition capacity of all centerfire guns to seven rounds. If you possess a magazine loaded with more than seven rounds in your own home, you are guilty of a criminal offense.

    So suppose a criminal with a stolen handgun and an illegal 15-round magazine invades your home. If you shoot at him with more than eight rounds (seven plus one in the chamber), you will be criminally charged, and your magazine (and possibly your firearm) will be confiscated and destroyed without compensation, because you have now used it in the commission of a crime. Beyond that, since a handgun permit in New York is not merely a permit to carry, but a permit to possess, after you have been charged with the crime of shooting at the home invader with a high-capacity magazine, your permit will be revoked, and all of your handguns will be confiscated.

    the SAFE Act requires that gun owners report any "loss or theft" of a firearm or ammunition to the police within 24 hours. Failure to do so is a criminal offense. Read literally, a deer hunter in Saranac Lake who drops a single 12-gauge slug in the snow and cannot find it is a criminal unless he reports the loss to the police.

    Read more: Articles: New York's 'SAFE' Act: The 'Rape' of the Second Amendment
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
    There you go again. You can't really refute the facts at hand, so what do you do?

    Same thing any gun nut does when faced with facts: try to change the subject to gun tech and then claim "you don't know what you're talking about."

    Trust me, I've seen this tactic a hundred times before. I'm not mad at you, just disappointed.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    msndrstood likes this.
  10. #1310  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    Short list of what happens when the citizens are disarmed and the government turns tyrannical.

    1911 Turkey disarms then from 1915-1917 1.5 Armenians were killed

    1929 Russia disarms then from 1929-1923 20 million Russian citizens are slaughtered

    1935 China disarms then from 1948-1952 20 million Chinese citizens murdered

    1938 Germany disarms then from 1939-1945 over 16 million Jewish citizens were massacred

    1956 Cambodia disarms then from 1975-1977 over 1 million are killed

    1970 Uganda disarms then from 1971-1979 over 300,000 Christians are murdered

    ---------------

    One of the most basic responsibilities of a parent is to protect your children as you see fit. As part of that responsibility I choose not only to own firearms, but to train every member of my family in the safe operation and maintenance of those tools of protection and defense as well.
    Please name the tyrannical States which have repealed their citizens' ability/right to keep and bear arms to protect their lives and property in their State Constitutions. Thanks!
  11. #1311  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    False. The catchall category of blunt objects includes hammers, clubs, etc ... Meaning all objects which were not designed/intended to be used as a weapon.

    http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/...er-victims.png

    Assault weapons kill more people within a single incident than any other weapon. How long did it take Loughner to empty his 33-round clip, inflicting 33 wounds? 15 seconds.

    These are the facts and they are inconvenient.
    356 murders with the shotgun, which the VP suggests that we should all buy for defense is higher than the amount by a rifle.


    BTW: Jared Loughner used a Glock 19, which is a handgun, or pistol if you prefer that term.
  12. #1312  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Please name the tyrannical States which have repealed their citizens' ability/right to keep and bear arms to protect their lives and property in their State Constitutions. Thanks!
    you missed the point
  13. #1313  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    In my haste ...
    In your haste, you overlooked the issue of the much higher number of killings per incident when using assault weapons and high-capacity clips. Oopsie!
  14. #1314  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    You are taking this out of context, it was intended to show what happens to citizens when their government becomes tyrannical.
    No. It cuts to the heart of the matter. Please answer the question.
  15. #1315  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    In your haste, you overlooked the issue of the much higher number of killings per incident when using assault weapons and high-capacity clips. Oopsie!
    I seem to recall you making an incorrect statement in another thread about what weapon Jared Loughner used, and the individual that pointed it out to you ( which was me), was a lot more respectful at that time. If necessary I am willing to copy that proof over for you.
  16. #1316  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    I seem to recall you making an incorrect statement in another thread about what weapon Jared Loughner used, and the individual that pointed it out to you ( which was me), was a lot more respectful at that time.
    And I admitted that I misspoke at that time. What has this to do with this thread? And what has this to do with the issue of much higher numbers of killings per incident when assault weapons and high-capacity clips are used?
  17. #1317  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    And I admitted that I misspoke at that time. What has this to do with this thread? And what has this to do with the issue of much higher numbers of killings per incident when assault weapons and high-capacity clips are used?
    It has to do with common courtesy, and respect. Both of which seem to have been lost on you.
    Markster1 likes this.
  18. #1318  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    I am a strict constructionist, believe the original intent of the framers; you may have as many flintlocks as you wish, any weapons beyond those
    the state may regulate.

    State may even regulate the flintlocks, the militia was for aid in emergency. Who well regulates militias?

    I have three shotguns and one revolver. I am an expert shot. I dont feel that laws in most states are burdensome, except New York where you can't have a gun at home without a license. Any state that has a law requiring a license for gun on your property is wrong. I want every person who buys a gun checked.

    Keep on with the radicalism, you'll convince most folk you are dangerous, then see what a republic might do. Support rational, reasonable regulations that dont
    prove burdensome, and get out in front of the extremists who want to ban all guns. Remember the child abuse extremes when zealots saw
    child abuse everywhere. In California a family lost their school, the prosecutors didn't realize the children were lying even when they told stories
    of abuse in basement rooms. The building didn't have basements.

    Stop the hints of violently resisting law enforcement or government overthrow. You will
    simply convince more folk you're dangerous. And you may get what you dont want.
    I dont want.

    You sound too radical, dangerous, you may even convince me. You'll lose a vote for reasonable gun regulation..

    One thing not a trope, a fact, those flintlocks
    were hunting rifles and could be used for war. They were not specialty war weapons. To defend my house I prefer shotgun; it won't kill my next door neighbor.



    Now back to original intent of these forums, I have an Android and all my next posts in those forums and not here. I won't debate this issue.
    The reasonable may consider what I say. Many may ignore, they won't ever be convinced. So one statement sufficient..
    msndrstood and rexxman like this.
  19. #1319  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    It has to do with common courtesy, and respect. Both of which seem to have been lost on you.
    I've not intended any disrespect. Accountability, on the other hand, is reasonably unflinching.
  20. #1320  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    They are standing up for their profits and nothing else. What are they going to do if a national AWB is passed again? Move to China? Also those are all boutique gun manufacturers. The biggies aren't there and won't be there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    In response to the strict gun control laws that have been passed in New York, and that have been proposed in other states weapons manufacturers are refusing to sell their weapons to law enforcement departments in these states. The reason they are using is that if average citizens cannot legally own and use their products then it would be unfair for police to have them either.

    To date according to the link below there are 44 such companies.

    44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    What do you think of this move by businesses?

    Personally I think it's a smart move, the respect they will gain from gun owners will by far outweigh the profit they may see from those contracts. Additionally they are standing up for what's right, during a time when our second amendment rights are under attack.

    44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States |


    Please keep comments civil, I would even hesitate to post sarcastic, or abrasive humor as it can easily be taken the wrong way.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by saint satin stain View Post
    I am a strict constructionist, believe the original intent of the framers; you may have as many flintlocks as you wish, any weapons beyond those
    the state may regulate.
    Even nut cases like Scalia have agreed that guns can be regulated.
  21. #1321  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    You should rethink that. Ask those of us who have seen what they can do first hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by crackberrytraitor View Post
    I generally groan at your posts, but I fully approve of this. I'm fairly liberal, but fervently oppose any infringement of our gun rights. Hell, if it was up to me, we'd be allowed to have automatics and RPGs.

    Sent from my One X using Android Central Forums
  22. #1322  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by saint satin stain View Post
    I am a strict constructionist, believe the original intent of the framers; you may have as many flintlocks as you wish, any weapons beyond those
    the state may regulate.
    Where does the second amendment specify flintlocks?

    With that being said, anything information printed or displayed in a way that is beyond the technologies of 1776 Americans is subject to the regulation of the government?
  23. #1323  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Simply put..... GOOD FOR THEM

    Sent from my EVO using Android Central Forums
  24. #1324  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    No. It cuts to the heart of the matter. Please answer the question.
    Maybe you should read it again.

    Short list of what happens when the citizens are disarmed and the government turns tyrannical.

    1911 Turkey disarms then from 1915-1917 1.5 Armenians were killed

    1929 Russia disarms then from 1929-1923 20 million Russian citizens are slaughtered

    1935 China disarms then from 1948-1952 20 million Chinese citizens murdered

    1938 Germany disarms then from 1939-1945 over 16 million Jewish citizens were massacred

    1956 Cambodia disarms then from 1975-1977 over 1 million are killed

    1970 Uganda disarms then from 1971-1979 over 300,000 Christians are murdered
  25. #1325  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    This is the sort of nonsense the NRA likes to trot out. One of the reasons why I failed to renew my membership finally after many years of their constant lying. They have also become an organization for gun manufacturers not gun owners. Then there is Wayne LaPierre's constant ranting and lies, putting that chicken hawk draft dodger Ted Nugent on the board, and on and on.
    Germany never disarmed its citizen. Nor did Turkey, nor did Russia. Very few people in China had firearms to begin with.
    Having spent 13 years in Marine Corps infantry, most of that time as a sniper, I find it amusing that people think they can fight the U.S. military and the now heavily militarized police. Good luck with that.
    Still the Supreme Court decided some time ago that "well regulated militia" mean any citizen. But they have left the door wide open for regulation and control of firearms.


    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    Short list of what happens when the citizens are disarmed and the government turns tyrannical.

    1911 Turkey disarms then from 1915-1917 1.5 Armenians were killed

    1929 Russia disarms then from 1929-1923 20 million Russian citizens are slaughtered

    1935 China disarms then from 1948-1952 20 million Chinese citizens murdered

    1938 Germany disarms then from 1939-1945 over 16 million Jewish citizens were massacred

    1956 Cambodia disarms then from 1975-1977 over 1 million are killed

    1970 Uganda disarms then from 1971-1979 over 300,000 Christians are murdered

    ---------------

    One of the most basic responsibilities of a parent is to protect your children as you see fit. As part of that responsibility I choose not only to own firearms, but to train every member of my family in the safe operation and maintenance of those tools of protection and defense as well.
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