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  1. #1426  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by metz65 View Post
    And all the arguing is basically pointless.
    The rest of your post makes your above statement appear a bit ironic.
  2. #1427  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    I was simply voicing my view of the outcome of the proposed new gun laws. Unless two people become involved in my statement and they disagree it's not really an argument is it?

    I don't care what kind of phone you have, that's not how I judge someone's worth or intelligence.
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  3. #1428  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    They said obamacare would never pass and then the Supreme Court would reverse it and then a new president would repeal. 3 for 3. Anything could happen.......
    Not sure who "they" are, but yes, they're foolish to make those claims. In the political climate at the time of the vote, passing was pretty close to inevitable in some form or another. The Supreme Court was always expected to uphold it, but not in the way that they did. Any new president, assuming there was a challenger to come anywhere close to the electoral votes to contest the office, would be 100% powerless to repeal the law. They could gut it with executive orders, but then we'd have to listen to the whining about executive orders that we hear today. Repealing the law requires Congressional cooperation. Whoever "they" is comprised of, "they" should be ignored at best or at worst, bet against them in the future.

    The other major difference is that, in my estimation, approximately less than 1% of Americans support banning and/or confiscating all firearms, whereas numbers going into the healthcare conversation indicated 76% of Americans supported some form of improvement to healthcare law. Similar to today, over 80% of people support improving weapon legislation and enforcement, but banning and confiscation are supported by approximately no one.
  4. #1429  

    Default More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    Yep, he's at it again. This time he says just fire the shotgun through the door.

    From his last statement I think most of us who own guns and shoot them agree that having a double barrel shotgun, and firing 2 warning shots into the air is dangerous, and that shotguns are NOT easier to handle or fire than an ar-15. Besides the fact that you've already wasted your first 2 shells so now you have to hope the criminal will wait to you reload.

    Some women attempting to fire a shotgun


    Joe Biden Has More Gun Advice: Just Fire the Shotgun Through the Door | TheBlaze.com

    Also here's a story about a man who was arrested for following the VP's warning shot advice.. Granted the guy is stupid for following the advice anyway. But this just shows how bad advice can get you in trouble, and honestly think about how this could have been worse.

    VA Man Arrested for Following "Double Barrel" Biden's Armed Defense Advise | The Truth About Guns
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  5. #1430  

    Default Re: More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    That guy doesn't have a defense for his case. Biden said to go out on the balcony to fire the warning shots, which this guy didn't do. According to the story, he was still inside his house when he fired the warning shots, a clear distinction.
  6. #1431  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    Not sure who "they" are, but yes, they're foolish to make those claims. In the political climate at the time of the vote, passing was pretty close to inevitable in some form or another. The Supreme Court was always expected to uphold it, but not in the way that they did. Any new president, assuming there was a challenger to come anywhere close to the electoral votes to contest the office, would be 100% powerless to repeal the law. They could gut it with executive orders, but then we'd have to listen to the whining about executive orders that we hear today. Repealing the law requires Congressional cooperation. Whoever "they" is comprised of, "they" should be ignored at best or at worst, bet against them in the future.

    The other major difference is that, in my estimation, approximately less than 1% of Americans support banning and/or confiscating all firearms, whereas numbers going into the healthcare conversation indicated 76% of Americans supported some form of improvement to healthcare law. Similar to today, over 80% of people support improving weapon legislation and enforcement, but banning and confiscation are supported by approximately no one.
    "They" is just a generic term for those that opposed Obama and his healthcare bill. Not to throw this thread off topic but Obama failed to address heathcare costs and premiums under Obamacare just like he failed to address the criminal element in his gun ban.
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  7. #1432  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Quinn View Post
    This discussion is about whether they are correcting an error or not. That's a matter of opinion, which makes it not factual by nature.
    Actually, what is at issue is the definition of infringement, which is a matter of historical legal record, not opinion. To designate (or redesignate) a firearm for military/police use only neither infringes one's ability to be safe in their own person, nor does it prevent a person from securing their property.

    For the absolutists among you, SCOTUS is the final authority. By deciding that "handguns are the most popular weapon chosen by Americans for self-defense in the home, and a complete prohibition of their use is invalid, Scalia knowingly left the door open to the removal of selective handguns, handheld weapons of mass destruction and any other firearms from the public market. Scalia ... that nutty, wacky, anti-2nd Amendment nutcase, I tell ya!
  8. #1433  
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    Default Re: More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    What a complete village *****. Clearly, he should have died right there on the spot after voluntarily giving his property to the kind, masked gentlemen (or ladies) when they requested it.

    When will this stupidity end?
  9. #1434  

    Default Re: More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    What a complete village *****. Clearly, he should have died right there on the spot after voluntarily giving his property to the kind, masked gentlemen (or ladies) when they requested it.

    When will this stupidity end?
    2016
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  10. #1435  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Actually, what is at issue is the definition of infringement, which is a matter of historical legal record, not opinion. To designate (or redesignate) a firearm for military/police use only neither infringes one's ability to be safe in their own person, nor does it prevent a person from securing their property.

    For the absolutists among you, SCOTUS is the final authority. By deciding that "handguns are the most popular weapon chosen by Americans for self-defense in the home, and a complete prohibition of their use is invalid, Scalia knowingly left the door open to the removal of selective handguns, handheld weapons of mass destruction and any other firearms from the public market. Scalia ... that nutty, wacky, anti-2nd Amendment nutcase, I tell ya!
    It's a good thing the Second Amendment doesn't say "you have the right to be safe in your own person and to secure your property"

    And SCOTUS justices can say whatever they want. That doesn't make it a ruling. Unless that was written as part of a ruling, in which case I would kindly ask that you provide links.
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
  11. #1436  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Quinn View Post
    It's a good thing the Second Amendment doesn't say "you have the right to be safe in your own person and to secure your property"
    Such statements were included in State Declarations of Rights which formed the basis for what was to become our national Constitution. An understanding of the common law of the preceding 150 years to the Constitution would be helpful.

    And SCOTUS justices can say whatever they want. That doesn't make it a ruling. Unless that was written as part of a ruling, in which case I would kindly ask that you provide links.
    This was Scalia delivering the majority ruling of the SCOTUS in DC vs Heller. Pages 57-58, if I recall correctly.
  12. #1437  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Such statements were included in State Declarations of Rights which formed the basis for what was to become our national Constitution. An understanding of the common law of the preceding 150 years to the Constitution would be helpful.



    This was Scalia delivering the majority ruling of the SCOTUS in DC vs Heller. Pages 57-58, if I recall correctly.
    I'm not entirely sure I understand why anything the States did prior to the Constitution and it being ratified has anything to do with anything. I mean prior to the Declaration of Independence weren't they following the laws of the King? Maybe we should go back to that... :P
    Kevin F.I.M.T.K. O'Quinn Esq.
  13. #1438  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Quinn View Post
    I'm not entirely sure I understand why anything the States did prior to the Constitution and it being ratified has anything to do with anything. I mean prior to the Declaration of Independence weren't they following the laws of the King? Maybe we should go back to that... :P
    I almost forgot. Historical and legal context don't matter. All that matters is what I viscerally feeeeeel are my rights.
  14. #1439  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    The thing about rights, is that they are not granted by the Constitution. The Constitution, specifically the amendments, merely innumerate rights that are common to all mankind. The two biggest abuses of the Constitution, in my opinion, are 1. Convincing American's that the rights only apply to American Citizens, which would imply we are subjects to a right granting body and are non-sovereign, and 2. Convincing American's that some rights supersede others and/or that rights can be taken away by government, which implies that we are subjects to a right granting body and are non-sovereign and that rights are subjectively granted at a whim by the ruling powers. Rights are rights and belong to all humans unless they choose not to exercise those rights. They can be forfeited, but never taken away.
  15. #1440  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Interesting take on rights.

    So, we have an innate right to own weapons. I would think because of that we don't need a 2nd amendent. I am not saying that you agree with that, I am just asking your thoughts.

    I think that men (referring to both sexes) craft constitutions, laws, moral codes etc. to agree to an acceptable conduct in the public and private space.

    I do enjoy your discussion on this topic.

    As to the original topic, I think these companies are wrong and their stance rings hollow.

    I am such a patriot that I refuse to sell merchandise to Iran or North Korea. And that is a very easy stance for me to take and without risk. Because I don't anyway.

    Blue 32gb Galaxy S3
  16. #1441  
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    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Quote Originally Posted by rexxman View Post
    Interesting take on rights.

    So, we have an innate right to own weapons. I would think because of that we don't need a 2nd amendent. I am not saying that you agree with that, I am just asking your thoughts.

    I think that men (referring to both sexes) craft constitutions, laws, moral codes etc. to agree to an acceptable conduct in the public and private space.

    I do enjoy your discussion on this topic.

    As to the original topic, I think these companies are wrong and their stance rings hollow.

    I am such a patriot that I refuse to sell merchandise to Iran or North Korea. And that is a very easy stance for me to take and without risk. Because I don't anyway.

    Blue 32gb Galaxy S3
    I think I'm going to start a "rights" thread here or on another forum so that I stop high-jacking this one, but yes, I believe the bill of rights doesn't grant rights, it just observes them and the government's inability to infringe upon them. (Human Rights - At Home and Abroad)

    On the original topic, as a show of support their stance makes sense, however I do agree they're not really sacrificing anything. I'm not sure if it makes it "hollow" or not, but it definitely is different than originally painted.
  17. #1442  
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    Default Re: More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    What happens then?
  18. #1443  

    Default Re: More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    What happens then?
    At the least, no more idiotic shotgun advice....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    What happens then?
    At the least, no more idiotic shotgun advice....
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  19. #1444  
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    Default Re: More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    What happens then?
    Some appear to be hoping for a return to this abomination:
  20. #1445  
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    Default Re: More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    Besides the fact that you've already wasted your first 2 shells so now you have to hope the criminal will wait to you reload.
    Because you know that'll happen!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
  21. #1446  

    Default Re: More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    Yea just fire through the door and hope it's really a thief. He is such an *****, next thing you know he will be telling us to shoot people walking by just in case.

    I don't care what kind of phone you have, that's not how I judge someone's worth or intelligence.
  22. #1447  
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    Default Re: More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    It's not as if anybody got hurt or anything, eh ****? .....
    [IMG]http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Willy-Wonka-****-Cheney.jpg[/IMG]
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  23. #1448  

    Default Re: More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    Waiting for the game of Cheney vs. Biden dueling.
  24. #1449  

    Default Re: More "shotgun" advice from the VP.

    Biden would win because he would shoot Cheney through the door when he got there.

    However, if they just meet in the woods Biden won't stand a chance

    I don't care what kind of phone you have, that's not how I judge someone's worth or intelligence.
  25. #1450  

    Default Re: 44 Gun Companies Stop Sales To Law Enforcement In Anti-2nd Amendment States

    Magpul released this statement today.
    Magpul Backpedals on Preferential Treatment for LEOs and Military - The Free Patriot

    While the title of the article does state that this includes the military, the article itself says:

    "With the fight in Colorado right now we do not have time to implement a new program, so I have suspended all LE sales to ban states until we can implement a system wherein any Law Enforcement Officer buying for duty use will have to promise to uphold their oath to the US Constitution specifically the second and fourteenth amendments as it applies to all citizens."
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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