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  1. #1876  

    Default Re: Martial law???

    Doesnt the govt own the military?

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  2. #1877  
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    Default Re: Martial law???

    Quote Originally Posted by mrsstraty#AC View Post
    Doesnt the govt own the military?

    Sent from my Verizon Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2.
    I don't think own is the right word for it, but yes. The military is employed through the department of defense, a government agency.

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  3. #1878  
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    Default Re: Drone Strikes against US citizens on US soil is legal

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    Interesting perspective... does this mindset change the conversation? Or is there a difference between us doing it and someone doing it to us?
    Wait - When's the last time you heard of an American suicide bomber blowing himself up in other countries' soft targets and hiding in a school here??? Never have? Then NEVERMIND.
  4. #1879  

    Default Re: Martial law???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Stough View Post
    I don't think own is the right word for it, but yes. The military is employed through the department of defense, a government agency.
    The government owns the military just as much as it owns any other government department. And when you are in the military, you are considered property. You can be court martialled for injuring yourself, for instance.
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    Default Re: Drone Strikes against US citizens on US soil is legal

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    Wait - When's the last time you heard of an American suicide bomber blowing himself up in other countries' soft targets and hiding in a school here??? Never have? Then NEVERMIND.
    Um... killing innocent people, even if it's "collateral damage" is always wrong. Especially if we are 1. not at war (keep in mind we haven't declared war in over 70 years now) 2. not sure who the target is or where they are and 3. have not gotten permission from the country the "terrorist" is in for our military to engage in combat on their soil. Those 3 points alone, any one of them alone, should be enough to stay our hand. The circumstances of why we're okay with killing civilians are irrelevant, or at least we should be. If they're an, "enemy combatant" we can have Congress declare war and march our soldiers in to quickly take whatever objective it is we're fighting for. If they're a criminal, we can establish jurisdiction, then go in and arrest them, give them a trial and pass a sentence if they're found to be guilty.
  6. #1881  
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    Default Re: Drone Strikes against US citizens on US soil is legal

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    Um... killing innocent people, even if it's "collateral damage" is always wrong. Especially if we are 1. not at war (keep in mind we haven't declared war in over 70 years now) 2. not sure who the target is or where they are and 3. have not gotten permission from the country the "terrorist" is in for our military to engage in combat on their soil. Those 3 points alone, any one of them alone, should be enough to stay our hand. The circumstances of why we're okay with killing civilians are irrelevant, or at least we should be. If they're an, "enemy combatant" we can have Congress declare war and march our soldiers in to quickly take whatever objective it is we're fighting for. If they're a criminal, we can establish jurisdiction, then go in and arrest them, give them a trial and pass a sentence if they're found to be guilty.
    This is no longer the simple world you think it is.
    Just because we haven't "declared war" has nothing to do with whether we're in a war or not. One way or another, a GROUP of "people" have declared war on us. Tell the survivors of 9/11 anything different. Tell the women and children that went to bomb a country... oh, I mean WATCH A MARATHON but instead had their limbs blown off, that we're not at war. Keep lying to yourself.
  7. #1882  
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    Default Re: Martial law???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Mike 2145 View Post
    The government owns the military just as much as it owns any other government department. And when you are in the military, you are considered property. You can be court martialled for injuring yourself, for instance.
    I understand the logic of the government "owning" the military, I just don't prefer that term. Also, while they "own" the military branches, service members are not owned by the government, as many like to believe. The instance you stated falls under the ideology that one can injure themselves to prevent from being combat ready, which is why that regulation was put into place. In that mind frame, a service member can be court martialled for receiving a sunburn that requires medical treatment.

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  8. #1883  
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    Default Re: Drone Strikes against US citizens on US soil is legal

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    This is no longer the simple world you think it is.
    Just because we haven't "declared war" has nothing to do with whether we're in a war or not. One way or another, a GROUP of "people" have declared war on us. Tell the survivors of 9/11 anything different. Tell the women and children that went to bomb a country... oh, I mean WATCH A MARATHON but instead had their limbs blown off, that we're not at war. Keep lying to yourself.
    lol ... If we give up who we are, then we have nothing left to fight for other than money. I'm not sure what the implied connection between 9/11 and Boston is other than innocent people died in both, but our standards should be above those of people who use terror as a tactic. We can't drop to their level just because we're angry or afraid, or whatever. If we do drop to their level, then the paradox that an eye for an eye creates becomes our new way of life. Everyone loses in that scenario. If we maintain our values, we can fight back and come out stronger, setting an example of freedom and justice, instead of one of murder and cowardice.
  9. #1884  
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    Default Re: Drone Strikes against US citizens on US soil is legal

    Let me put it this way: (hypothetically you have kids, not sure if you do or not) - If your kid is at a playground and gets into a fight with another child, say they're both 5 years old... do you go punch that kid out? What about all the kids watching? Or do you try to find an adult way to solve the problem?
  10. #1885  
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    Default Re: Martial law???

    My sympathies first and foremost to the victims, their families, and the people of Boston. The following in no way is to criticize the law enforcement authorities or the job they did, but the point raised about warrantless searches is valid in my opinion. Once forfeited, even under emergencies and for the sake of public safety, it can become a slippery slope and it is that much easier the next time for the state to exercise outside the law. The suspension of habeas corpus during the U.S. Civil War was illegal. Had it been challenged then and upheld as illegal the internment of Japanese-Americans a century later by FDR might have never happened. One could take an opposing viewpoint and argue that if it wasn't for what President Lincoln did then the South might have won the Civil War and the issue with Japanese-Americans would have been a moot because the USA might not have existed in 1941, but nonetheless it is a valid point and worth discussing. In this post 9/11 USA the state has become incredibly militarized and the majority of it has happened with very little public discourse.
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  11. #1886  
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    Default Re: Martial law???

    Quote Originally Posted by jdbii View Post
    My sympathies first and foremost to the victims, their families, and the people of Boston. The following in no way is to criticize the law enforcement authorities or the job they did, but the point raised about warrantless searches is valid in my opinion. Once forfeited, even under emergencies and for the sake of public safety, it can become a slippery slope and it is that much easier the next time for the state to exercise outside the law. The suspension of habeas corpus during the U.S. Civil War was illegal. Had it been challenged then and upheld as illegal the internment of Japanese-Americans a century later by FDR might have never happened. One could take an opposing viewpoint and argue that if it wasn't for what President Lincoln did then the South might have won the Civil War and the issue with Japanese-Americans would have been a moot because the USA might not have existed in 1941, but nonetheless it is a valid point and worth discussing. In this post 9/11 USA the state has become incredibly militarized and the majority of it has happened with very little public discourse.
    I agree. I'm in no way saying that people should have fought back or gotten into fire fights with Police and Federal Officials. You tell them they don't have permission to search, and if they persist, you don't physically resist; you file suit later. They're doing what they think is best for their safety and you don't want to make them feel unsafe. On the same line though, you can't forget to let them know it was wrong.

    It's like if you came home and your spouse was out of control with anger and pointing a gun at your child. That's not the time to tell them how much they're sucking at life. But when it's over and people have calmed down, if you don't say anything, and soon, that becomes an "okay" behavior because you didn't push back.
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    Default Re: Drone Strikes against US citizens on US soil is legal

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    Just because we haven't "declared war" has nothing to do with whether we're in a war or not
    No disrespect, but wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!...........................I could not disagree more, and I never ever accept as 'normal' the USA going to war, or being at war, without a congressional declaration of war.
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  13. #1888  
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    Default Re: Drone Strikes against US citizens on US soil is legal

    Quote Originally Posted by jdbii View Post
    No disrespect, but wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!...........................I could not disagree more, and I never ever accept as 'normal' the USA going to war, or being at war, without a congressional declaration of war.
    I understand where you're coming from, but this is a different world now.
  14. #1889  
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    Default Re: Drone Strikes against US citizens on US soil is legal

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    Let me put it this way: (hypothetically you have kids, not sure if you do or not) - If your kid is at a playground and gets into a fight with another child, say they're both 5 years old... do you go punch that kid out? What about all the kids watching? Or do you try to find an adult way to solve the problem?
    I would help the kid punch MY kid out.
  15. #1890  
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    Default Re: Drone Strikes against US citizens on US soil is legal

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    I understand where you're coming from, but this is a different world now.
    The world isn't different, we changed the way we see it.
  16. #1891  
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    Default Re: Drone Strikes against US citizens on US soil is legal

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate456 View Post
    The world isn't different...
    Ohhh I disagree, yes it is.
    Nowadays, anything can *and does* happen anywhere, anytime.
  17. #1892  

    Default Re: Martial law???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Stough View Post
    I understand the logic of the government "owning" the military, I just don't prefer that term. Also, while they "own" the military branches, service members are not owned by the government, as many like to believe. The instance you stated falls under the ideology that one can injure themselves to prevent from being combat ready, which is why that regulation was put into place. In that mind frame, a service member can be court martialled for receiving a sunburn that requires medical treatment.

    Sent from my Verizon Droid DNA
    In 2001 my drill sergeant gave me this huge speech about this because I got a peace tattoo done. When they say own you they mean it. Well at least until the contract ends but you still have years of inactive duty that becomes active when you get out if the situation calls for it.

    Other than that I agree with a- android - b and NothingIsTrue with everything that is being said.

    TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7
  18. #1893  
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    Default Re: Drone Strikes against US citizens on US soil is legal

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    Ohhh I disagree, yes it is.
    Nowadays, anything can *and does* happen anywhere, anytime.
    The means of doing stuff has change not the world.

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  19. #1894  
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    Default Re: Martial law???

    Quote Originally Posted by geekymcfly View Post
    In 2001 my drill sergeant gave me this huge speech about this because I got a peace tattoo done. When they say own you they mean it. Well at least until the contract ends but you still have years of inactive duty that becomes active when you get out if the situation calls for it.

    Other than that I agree with a- android - b and NothingIsTrue with everything that is being said.

    TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7
    My husband graduated basic in 2010 and has had that exact conversation many times with different ncos and has received an opposite answer than what you have stated. But different people have different views.

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  20. #1895  

    Default Re: Martial law???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Stough View Post
    My husband graduated basic in 2010 and has had that exact conversation many times with different ncos and has received an opposite answer than what you have stated. But different people have different views.

    Sent from my Verizon Droid DNA
    Well im sure if he graduated in 2010 the army has changed.


    Edit: you're free to go as long as you do so before graduating basic. Tell your husband to ask a NCO who knows what he's talking about and who he belongs to. Well the good ol uncle Sam

    TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7
  21. #1896  

    Default Re: Martial law???

    Of course, the U.S. Government has lifted the ban on women serving in combat roles. At that rate, personally I think women should be subject to the draft just the same as men. There's no need for women to hide behind their skirts and be exempted from serving their country based on their gender...
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  22. #1897  

    Default Re: Martial law???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Mike 2145 View Post
    Of course, the U.S. Government has lifted the ban on women serving in combat roles. At that rate, personally I think women should be subject to the draft just the same as men. There's no need for women to hide behind their skirts and be exempted from serving their country based on their gender...
    I agree with you on that

    TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7
  23. #1898  

    Default Re: Martial law???

    I'll chime in...

    1. The ammunition situation.. 400, 000 of those rounds, are hollow points... Any gun owner knows hollow points are like 3x the price of the normal bullet... Noone in their right mind would use those for any type of training of target practice... The rest of everything else, again why isn't it a Military purchase? Because the Military can't be used against the people, but domestic org's can..

    2. It's not hard to see we're headed for some kind of civil unrest of some kind.. Occupy Wall Street, just wasn't a big enough event.. most people watching and listening didn't even know why those people were doing it.. If the govt tries to show Brute Force nationwide anything, **** will hit the fan..

    3. Someone will be the antichrist, someday... It's not Obama, and it'll never be an American, as America plays no role in the end times mentioned in what's known as The Bible.. Something like 95% of the population of the planet believe in some form of religion and God.. they can't All be crazy.. someone's religion will be right..

    4. Civil unrest here in The States could also be triggered by govt services being cut off due to financial crisis.. desperate situations call for desperate measures, and there will be millions desperate.. This could be what the Fema Camps all around the US are really for, who knows.. (google FemA camps on YouTube and draw your own conclusions, they are real, but what it there intended use)

    5. Fact, China is significantly reducing the use of US Currency in its trading abroad.. China and all its global partners have created and are about to implement a banking system to rival our World Bank, which has dominated the world since it's birth.. it shouldn't be hard to get the world to shift when they see our problems all over their news talking about how weak we are financially now.. if China actually let the US default on its loans, **** would hit the fan quick here, financial ruin on every imaginable level..
    ( Google BRICKS China or something all read all about this, it's also a very real threat)
    ...

    There are Sooooo many things that the US govt won't really talk about..

    Monsanto... Flat out our govt is letting us be poisoned.. in reality if they didn't, we would have over populated the states a long time ago.. they need cancers, heart and lung diseases, tumors, etc.... Somebody said few pages back, the president can't do anything.. well he appointed Monsato exec to the FDA without Congress approval - presidents aren't allowed to do that.. then just 2 weeks ago, allowed him to write the new laws saying Genetically Engineered Seeds are ok to use... Conflict of interest much.. I know people scoff at the idea of these types of things but seriously, did you know the US is one of the only Industrialized Nations that hasn't completely banned Flouride.. it's in our toothpaste, it's gotta be ok... Why does your toothpaste or dentist during treatments warn you not to swallow? It's highly toxic.. and it's in all the water you drink, and water is in just about every type of consumable beverage... Aspartame is another, do you use equal or drink diet soda? Your killing yourself.. this one is so illegal in some countries, you can get 20years in prison of you use it... These aren't consiprical claims, all this is fact and I emplore you to Google GMOs, GM seeds and Monsanto, Aspartame effects.. and if your only gonna look at one, look at Flouride, it's effects are so shocking you won't believe it's perfectly legal here..

    Texas Fertilizer Plant Explosion... Wind blowing to the left, smoke blowing to the left, fire going to the left... Something clearly ignites it from the left side for the explosion, against the direction everything else is going... YouTube it... Fun Fact, that Fertilizer Plant had an open lawsuit against Monsanto.. When Genetically Engineered Seeds are now the way to go, who needs fertilizer, right? Watch the YouTube videos, draw your own conclusions..

    Boston Bombing... All the facts aren't in yet, but this is a seriously strange situation...

    Sandy Hook Shooting... Didn't ******* happen! The evidence against it is beyond overwhelming.. Hmm Military Training exercise happened to be in the area too.. (also military exercise was going on at Boston Marathon and Texas Explosion)

    North Korea, Iran or any Nuclear Threat... Totally has the capability to attack the US... The govt can never let us know how serious a threat on that level really is for 2 reasons, 1: the public might cry out for action and if it doesn't happen, civil unrest 2: day to day live MUST continue or the govt can't function.... If they said look, Someone gonna fire nukes, they will hit us, and millions of you will die - but we don't know where, but it's imminent.... All ******* hell would break lose and well all know it... Chaos, solves nothing for anybody...

    Why are we training 10s of thousands of Foriegn Soldiers on American Soil in places like Gatlinburg Tennessee? And then being so discreet about it also... Google, it's there, draw your own conclusions..

    Why is there an Underground City, underneath Dever Airport? Google, it's so real it's almost sweet.. we're talking Umbrella Corp, Resident Evil type underground city here.. mind you Denver is a mile above sea level, so this makes a mighty nice bunker for just about anything..

    Did you know US police and military are slowing being issued new Practice Targets? They consist of images like of a 20 something mother holding a child by the hand with a hand gun drawn, another is an older man with a shot gun, I forget the others... Google the story, it's very real... Theorists say this is for desensitization for when the Civil Unrest breaks out and they have to use force against Americans because of it...



    Alll that, lengthy, sorry buzzed, is just recent stuff..


    I don't believe everything that's up there, but everything I mentioned is highly shrouded in secrets, misdirection, misdealings, and lots of questions...

    Just because someone doesn't believe what others believe, doesn't mean they are wrong or crazy.... I emplore everyone who might take the time to read this, research even one of these and you'll find theres way more to it than you ever though... Doesn't mean it's true still, but if it's definitely and definitively Not True, than these questions wouldn't exsist...
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  24. #1899  
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    Default Re: Martial law???

    Sandy Hook Shooting... Didn't ******* happen! The evidence against it is beyond overwhelming.. Hmm Military Training exercise happened to be in the area too.. (also military exercise was going on at Boston Marathon and Texas Explosion)
    That's where I quit reading what you were typing. Say that to the parents of the children who were killed. Its people like you that have people constantly terrified to look out their front door.



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  25. #1900  
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    Default Re: Martial law???

    Quote Originally Posted by geekymcfly View Post
    Well im sure if he graduated in 2010 the army has changed.


    Edit: you're free to go as long as you do so before graduating basic. Tell your husband to ask a NCO who knows what he's talking about and who he belongs to. Well the good ol uncle Sam

    TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7
    You sign and take the Oath at MEPS prior to shipping to basic.
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