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  1. #176  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    What does duck, pheasant hunting or membership in the NRA have to do with this?

    Gun control to me is 1) Using both hands, 2) Hitting your target.


    I am also former military, while my primary weapons training was prior to and after my military service I still feel qualified to decide what I need to defend myself with and against. Weather you believe I am a nut job or not doesn't matter. What matters is that I have the right under the second amendment to own such a weapon. Also as I stated as a veteran who swore the same oath to protect and defend the constitution you are obligated by that oath to support my choice. My oath of enlistment has no expiration date, does yours?

    During the revolution art war our founding fathers went up against the best trained and equipped standing army at the time, and they succeeded.

    Criminals use guns to commit these and other crimes, the AR-15 has been in production since the 1960's and there have been millions of them sold. Also AR stands for Armalite Rifle, not assault rifle. The AR-15 is the modern day version of the musket, that was used in the revolutionary war.

    I would hope that today our servicemen and women would also choose not to obey such an illegal order, history shows that is not always the case. That's why we had war crimes trials at the end of WWII.

    I will however state that the founding fathers could not have foreseen the technological advances that would allow these type of weapons to be developed when they drafted the Constitution. But they also could not have foreseen message boards, telephones, TV, or the internet. Yet we apply the first amendment to these advanced means of communication.

    I suggest you reread the Constitution, and maybe the federalist papers as well to refresh in your mind what it means to be an American, and exactly what it is you swore to protect and defend.

    For me this is how I feel the second amendment should be upheld. Hypotheticly (sp) If after all reasonable forms of negotiation has failed and the federal or state government comes to my house to take my weapons then it is not only my right to use those weapons, it becomes my moral duty to do so.

    Unfortunately I am on my N10 and not at home right now, so its not as easy for me to pull information from multiple sources to post here. But I will comeback and address your other points as well.
    Actually the first amendment has become more restrictive over time. Just like I believe the 2nd should too.

    The root cause of the problem is that unstable people have access to guns too easily. When that's fixed, our problem will be fixed.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
  2. #177  
    nrm5110's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewtenn View Post
    Actually the first amendment has become more restrictive over time. Just like I believe the 2nd should too.

    The root cause of the problem is that unstable people have access to guns too easily. When that's fixed, our problem will be fixed.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    So why not fix the unstable people.

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  3. #178  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oleyeller View Post
    More restrictions will only force people to the black markets to get the guns they want. If someone wants something, they can buy it through another intermediary. There is no law or regulations that can prevent that from happening.

    'Assault' weapons are no different than any other pistol other than the barrel length. They even use a smaller caliber bullet--no bigger than a 22 round AND have to have the trigger pulled each and every time. The same as a pistol. Assault weapons even have pistol grips.

    The assault weapons that politicians talk about are those that are of an automatic nature. Meaning that the trigger can be held down to fire multiple bullets. These cannot be sold in retail establishments and no retailer would be stupid enough to be selling them publicly. And this fact doesn't even matter because these weapons are so accessible on the black market.

    Most of school shootings and other massacres report the gunman using assault weapons. Media has trained citizens to think automatically about automatics when actually they are semi automatics.

    Again, many people do not know that people can legally have automatic assault weapons in America. There is a long and expensive process that one had to go through to get them legally in America.

    The definition of assault weapons is too broad to even be used in some sort of legal context.

    A national registry is a good idea. However there are big pitfalls. There is no garuntee that New guns previously purchased guns will be registered. It will be insanely expensive. Still won't crack down on illegal gun sales. Will not prevent school shootings.

    Background checks are too subjective and are not thorough enough to determine the mental capacity of a purchaser. Simple as that.

    By passing new laws. Current market shares for gun manufacturers will shrink. Causing them to turn to otherwise hostile or unfriendly markets elsewhere.

    By adding more restrictions, you make the risk of taking guns away from those who really need them. I would rather have someone with a gun close by who could end a dangerous situation quickly by using the training he received before he even got the pistol. YES! People must complete an in depth safety training before purchasing.

    How can we reduce tragedies...? Education. n enforce more high level training to weed out possible threats early in the purchase process.

    Thirdly, which is highly controversial, keep the gun laws they way they are. But tax the hell out of ammunition, the thing that kills victims. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. You all want guns off the street right...? This is a way to do it without making more laws but making people who are passionate about weaponry pay for it.

    This revenue can go towards education, security for schools, and other programs that help profilers detect problem people earlier.

    That ends this rant. Thanks for reading.

    The



    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
    This kind of thinking really irritates me.

    "Problems with background checks. "
    "National registry had pitfalls"
    "Its too expensive"

    Saying there are problems with existing process and just throwing the ideas away without suggesting we fix them is the problem with this country. Spend the money to fix the problems that could potentially help reduce these crimes. I'm not asking for the murder rate to go to zero. I'm asking for anything that will help at all. If we think a properly implemented registry will help then fix it. If we think a properly implemented background check will help then fix it.

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  4. #179  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Drew. I can relate to your irritation. I can understand why you might be. But, you haven't really presented any more solutions other than "spend the money." sometimes, spending money just doesn't work. And sometimes things can't be fixed like we would like unless we have the power to do so. Maybe we need part of the education budgets to include guards for schools. Or possibly even have states delegate officers to more school districts. Web don't have to spend more money. We can budget what we have with the means available. I do not believe in spending more money America doesn't have.
    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
  5. #180  
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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  6. #181  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synycalwon View Post
    Personally, I think of lot of people are allowing themselves to be played by the media and politicians in these mass shooting events, allowing these groups to try to implement there own agenda to change the fundamentals of what this country was founded on. Because if youre really concerned with what causes the most innocent death every single day, why not talk about banning automobiles?

    Or if you really want to protect children, let's get rid of abortion.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
    winmod21 likes this.
  7. #182  
    nrm5110's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Get rid of alcohol (you know because that worked so well the first time :rolleyes: )

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  8. #183  

    Default Re: US Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    No Alex Jones, while being passionate about his beliefs and his support of the Constitution does not scare me. I don't really think he scares other people either. The people that scare me are people like Obama, Feinsteine(sp), Bloomburg, and Cumo. People that want big government and nanny state scare me.
    My feelings as well. Anyone who wants to change the basic principles this country was founded on scare me. I just want government to stay the heck out of my life as much as possible, focus on national defense and general oversight, that's it! The rest I can take care of myself thank you very much!
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  9. #184  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Here ya go.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Firearms and self-defense-385249_420768238005413_623725670_n.jpg  
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
    winmod21 likes this.
  10. #185  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
    winmod21 likes this.
  11. #186  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    I disagree with a woman's right to choose, it makes no sense that a woman is legally allowed to murder a truly innocent person just because she has a uterus.

    Speaking from personal experience, a long time ago before I got married I was engaged to another woman. When she got pregnant she decided to have an abortion since according to her the time wasn't right for HER. I begged and pleaded with her to at least have the baby and let me raise the child if she didn't want to.

    After the abortion we didn't stay together very long, and to this day I can barely stand to look at her. But I have heard thru mutual friends that she does regret that choice. Because apparently now she cannot have children because something went wrong and she is unable to carry to term, she had 3 miscarriages before giving up.

    Women want the right to choose, but do not want men to have it as well. If you get a woman pregnant by accident weather you want the child or not you will pay child support. No matter if the timing is right for you or not. As fathers we should have a say in the well being of our children.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
    Markster1 and winmod21 like this.
  12. #187  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Meanwhile in Britain,
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Firearms and self-defense-319872_10152476932720515_2016085466_n.jpg  
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  13. #188  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    As long as my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness does not infringe on another's right to the same I am OK with your opinions. However if someone infringes on my rights it is my moral obligation to defend myself and my rights.

    I will always choose to be morally right than politically correct. It is NOT my duty to care for anyone but myself and my family. I believe that what I earn is mine and you or anyone else has any right to take it away or redistribute it. Helping others is a choice I make on a case by case basis depending on each need.

    With the exception of my tithe at church, I have helped numerous families when they have lost the means to support themselves, or lost a home to a fire, paid for car repairs and even purchased a car for a single mother in our church. So honestly your opinion doesn't carry a lot of weight.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
    winmod21 likes this.
  14. #189  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    This is getting hostile quickly. I would say that this debate boils down to what our religious and personal values are. There will never be one consensus on what women should do. I agree with both of you. However, I take the position that I follow what my girlfriend would decide. I am not carrying that child, we couldn't financially afford one, and we don't have the means to be married. That's not a life I would like to give a child. That wouldn't be fair to them or us. That may sound wrong. But it's true.


    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
    ConTejas likes this.
  15. #190  
    NotJustAPhone's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Keep the discussion civil. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

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  16. #191  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    I disagree with a woman's right to choose, it makes no sense that a woman is legally allowed to murder a truly innocent person just because she has a uterus.

    Speaking from personal experience, a long time ago before I got married I was engaged to another woman. When she got pregnant she decided to have an abortion since according to her the time wasn't right for HER. I begged and pleaded with her to at least have the baby and let me raise the child if she didn't want to.

    After the abortion we didn't stay together very long, and to this day I can barely stand to look at her. But I have heard thru mutual friends that she does regret that choice. Because apparently now she cannot have children because something went wrong and she is unable to carry to term, she had 3 miscarriages before giving up.

    Women want the right to choose, but do not want men to have it as well. If you get a woman pregnant by accident weather you want the child or not you will pay child support. No matter if the timing is right for you or not. As fathers we should have a say in the well being of our children.
    Actually it is HER right to abort. She is the one who is pregnant.

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    Synycalwon likes this.
  17. #192  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    Actually it is HER right to abort. She is the one who is pregnant.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Android Central Forums
    So since the woman is the one that is pregnant she is carrying a baby, therefore abortion is murder.

    Decisions and choices have consequences, a consequence of having sex is pregnancy. If you don't want to get pregnant either use protection although as far as I know it's not 100% reliable, or just don't have sex unless you are ready to accept the consequences of your actions.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
    Markster1 likes this.
  18. #193  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    It is interesting to me that the first weapons that are proposed to be banned ("Assault rifles") are the firearms least frequently used in crimes and the ones proposed to be immune from ban such as short barreled hand guns are the firearms most frequently used in crimes.

    Reading through the thread it was also interesting that when asked for a definition of assault rifle or assault weapon, one poster initially didn't answer (something about "I have some ideas but what I think isn't important"). The traditional definition of assault rifle and one of the requirements the DoD has when selecting assault rifles is select-fire - either a burst or a fully automatic mode. Any of those kinds of weapons are already very strictly controlled at the federal level as Class III destructive devices. Purchasing one requires a fairly extended waiting period and at least a $200 transfer tax.

    Asking for a perfectly safe world in which we're able to detect people who might do bad things before they do bad things and removing all tools with which they might be able to do bad things from their access is a pretty tall order. Even if we completely outlawed guns it would take decades for the level of firearms availability to fall significantly to the point that a determined crazy person wouldn't be able to get ahold of one to do something like Sandy Hook. Even if we could make them all vanish tonight there are still going to be tragedies in schools. When asking what the best course of action is it's important to keep that in mind.

    I would suggest increased security in the schools as a first step but I don't think that's actually going to be of any use either. Properly implemented security might help, but it's never going to really be properly implemented and the effect will just be to annoy parents.

    One of the best courses of action against mass shootings might be to simply not publicize them. After Columbine several school shootings referred to Columbine or "Columbine-like" shootings (Virigina Tech for example) when talking about what they were doing. Do everything we can to remove the motivation for school shootings first of all, and one of the motivations certainly does seem to be a desire to duplicate the "success" or fame generated from other school shootings. That's a difficult one to implement because it runs up against freedom of the press.

    I don't really think there is a best course of action available to us, unfortunately.
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  19. #194  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Laws need to punish the parents of these shooters also! Send a couple parents to prison and you will see people securing their firearms better! I grew up with firearms in my house, and they were always locked up! I have firearms and they are always locked up! It all comes back to irresponsible parenting!

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  20. #195  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Also, I would support an increase in the legal age to buy firearms to 25

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  21. #196  
    nrm5110's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cattails_r_Edible View Post
    Also, I would support an increase in the legal age to buy firearms to 25

    Mosquitoes Refuse To Bite Me
    So you're saying adults aren't adults. We really need to decide on a legal age of adulthood because the age to drink would suggest the same notion.

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  22. #197  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cattails_r_Edible View Post
    Also, I would support an increase in the legal age to buy firearms to 25

    Mosquitoes Refuse To Bite Me
    At what age do people become responsible for their own actions?

    You are mature enough at 18 to join the military, in my state you can buy alcohol at 21, drive when you are 15 1/2 (learners permit) and if you are a 13-14 year old girl you can get an abortion....
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
    Synycalwon and Markster1 like this.
  23. #198  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    So since the woman is the one that is pregnant she is carrying a baby, therefore abortion is murder.

    Decisions and choices have consequences, a consequence of having sex is pregnancy. If you don't want to get pregnant either use protection although as far as I know it's not 100% reliable, or just don't have sex unless you are ready to accept the consequences of your actions.
    And she dealt with the consequence, which is why you have a choice. A woman doesn't lose the right to her own medical decisions just because she is impregnated by a man who is prolife. Abortion isn't considered murder because a fetus isn't viable until at least 23 weeks.

    Didnt you already say you didn't want to discuss this and get off topic?

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  24. #199  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    And she dealt with the consequence, which is why you have a choice. A woman doesn't lose the right to her own medical decisions just because she is impregnated by a man who is prolife. Abortion isn't considered murder because a fetus isn't viable until at least 23 weeks.

    Didnt you already say you didn't want to discuss this and get off topic?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Android Central Forums
    And the further consequence of her choice is that she can never have children, that she lives with the regret of that choice for the rest of her life. Guess what, she's pro life now too and tries to educate others so they won't make the same mistake. According to you the fetus (baby) isn't viable till 23 weeks, so how is it that a pregnancy test shows + results much sooner.

    While a woman's body remains her own during pregnancy, the body inside her belongs to someone else.

    Honestly even though things ended badly between her and I, at one time I loved her very much. But when you said she was "impregnated by a man who is pro life". It felt cold and heartless, almost sterile like you were taking something from what her and I shared. If nothing else maybe it's time for me to mend that fence, and for that I do thank you.

    You are right I didn't want to discuss this and get off topic, but other's such as yourself kept it going so here we are.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  25. #200  
    Darth Spock's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    I found this on my FB page today.

    There are two Supreme Court rulings that directly relate to the current anti-Assault Weapon issue everyone needs to be reminded of.

    The first is United States v. Miller 1939. Miller possessed a sawed-off shotgun banned under the National Firearms Act. He argued that he had a right to bear the weapon under the Second Amendment, but the Supreme Court ruled against him. Why? At the time, sawed-off shotguns were not being used in a military application, and the Supremes ruled that since it didn't, it was not protected. Even though Miller lost that argument, the Miller case set the precedent that protected firearms have a military, and thus a legitimate and protected Militia use. The military now uses shotguns regularly, but not very short, sawed-off shotguns, but an AR-15/AK-47 type weapon is currently in use by the military, therefore it is a protected weapon for the Unorganized Militia, which includes just about every American citizen now that both age and sex discrimination are illegal. (The original Militia included men of age 17-45) Therefore any firearm that is applicable to military use is clearly protected under Article II, and that includes all those nasty-looking semi-automatic black rifles, including full 30 round magazines.

    The second important case is that of John Bad Elk v. United States from 1900. In that case, an attempt was made to arrest Mr. Bad Elk without probable cause, and Mr. Bad Elk killed a policeman who was attempting the false arrest. Bad Elk had been found guilty and sentenced to death. However, the Supreme Court ruled that Bad Elk had the right to use any force, including lethal force, to prevent his false arrest, even if the policeman was only trying to arrest him and not kill him. Basically, the Supremes of the day ruled that as a citizen, you have the right to defend against your civil rights being violated using ANY force necessary to prevent the violation, even if the offending party isn't trying to kill you.

    Both of these cases are standing law to this day.

    The Miller decision clearly includes AR-15/AK-47 type weapons as having a military application. The Bad Elk decision means that if the government tries to confiscate your AR-15/AK-47, or arrest you for having one, you can kill the offenders on the spot, even if they are not trying to kill you.
    Can you cite the reference to the "Unorganized Militia"? I'm not having any luck in the case briefings, but I also don't have any dissenting statements available here either.
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