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  1. #201  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Hildenbrand View Post
    Truth:
    RPGs are not firearms
    According to whom? You (via NRA-sanctioned talking points)? Or precedent law? Or can't this discussion be taken seriously? As was settled in 1846 as stare decisis, and remains so to this day across the nation, those who chest-thump about their belief in an absolute right to purchase and use any firearm of their choosing are conveniently uninformed about what is supposed to be the foundation of their own belief:

    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, and not such merely as one used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed or broken in upon, in the smallest degree . . . ." Id. at 251 (emphasis in original). - Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243 (1846)

    "All that counts is how the words used in the Constitution would have been understood at the time. The original understanding is thus manifested in the words used and in secondary materials, such as debates at the conventions, public discussion, newspaper articles, dictionaries in use at the time, and the like." - Robert Bork/The Tempting of America

    "[t]he Framers of our Constitution were born and brought up in the atmosphere of the common law, and thought and spoke its vocabulary. They were familiar with other forms of government, recent and ancient, and indicated in their discussions earnest study and consideration of many of them; but, when they came to put their conclusions into the form of fundamental law in a compact draft, they expressed themselves in terms of the common law, confident that they could be shortly and easily understood. The language of the Constitution cannot be interpreted safely except by reference to the common law and to British institutions as they were when the instrument was framed and adopted." - Chief Justice Howard Taft

    "On every question of construction let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning can be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one which was passed." - Thomas Jefferson

    How much is that shiny new grenade in the window?

    You think you can stop some violent crime by banning a gun that you are afraid of.
    I think there is general agreement that the weapon is not to be feared. The coward hiding behind the trigger is the only thing which unnerves me. As with any manufactured product, there is a critical-mass line which cannot be crossed regarding public safety due to a product's abuse. Where is that line where it regards the FBI's documented record of particular types of weapons used in the murder/homicide of civilians? At what death toll number do we, as a nation, begin to consider that a particular product must stop being produced?

    All you and yours are arguing for is the illusion of a right to bear arms, eg "bumper-sticker, visceral, self-serving political theater". Because the intent of the 2nd Amendment was to remain prepared to thwart any physical, present threat by a standing army present in the streets of the new nation, I have to ask you when was the last time a standing army threatened you and your family in suburbia?

    Think you and your militia buddies have the firepower to conquer any standing army which poses a direct threat to you, including the US army? [Just in case you're still not getting it, this is where the illusion comes in]. You have to recall US history to recognize that the English had their sympathizers (many were English subjects) within the ranks of Washington's Regular army as well as militias of the time, thus a standing US army could have had the capacity of countering US interests. Is this the realistic case today? Absolutely not. When singular incidents have occurred within the armed services in contemporary times which have threatened a military unit or base, have they ever required additional militia (public) forces to secure the peace? Again, absolutely not.

    As far as the comments of others, they are allowed to say things you don't like(EDIT: Such as calling me "troll" and "*****"). As long as the rules of this forum aren't being broken, and they are not, I encourage everyone to post at will.
    Given the intervention by another mod about name-calling, it appears you guys should start singing from the same hymnal. Either that or get less transparent sockpuppets. Peace.
    Last edited by carolinadroid; 01-24-2013 at 10:16 AM.
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  2. #202  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    Can you cite the reference to the "Unorganized Militia"? I'm not having any luck in the case briefings, but I also don't have any dissenting statements available here either.
    It is my opinion that by unorganized militia that they are referring to one not being funded by the state or federal government.

    "Unorganized Militia, which includes just about every American citizen now that both age and sex discrimination are illegal. (The original Militia included men of age 17-45) Therefore any firearm that is applicable to military use is clearly protected under Article II, and that includes all those nasty-looking semi-automatic black rifles, including full 30 round magazines."
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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  3. #203  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Honest to gawd, if you think you need to carry a weapon every time you leave your house, you need help.
    So you know when you will be held at gun point? Let it be know if you plan on robbing,killing, or hurting someone you must notify them before hand.

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  4. #204  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by BaMaDuDe87 View Post
    So you know when you will be held at gun point? Let it be know if you plan on robbing,killing, or hurting someone you must notify them before hand.
    You bring up a very important point and it's called the "element of surprise". If somebody point a gun in your face and says give me your money, the smart thing to do is give him your money. If you try to pull your weapon, you're dead before you get it half way out.

    Back to my original point, the vast majority of people don't carry guns and aren't afraid to leave their house without one. You have all these crazy alarmist like Alex Jones filling the air waves with fear and profiting from it.
    Last edited by palandri; 01-24-2013 at 01:36 PM.
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  5. #205  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    While deaths by firearms go down in societies with total gun control the violent crime rates are much higher in those countries. Its a people problem...if its not a gun, its a knife, or bomb, or baseball bat. They will find another way. Cars kill way more people than guns. Should we ban cars?

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  6. #206  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synycalwon View Post
    You're right that it is not the weapon to be feared, it is the person behind it. So why are we not addressing that instead of looking to ban things? Because if were serious about banning deadly weapons, why not talk about automobiles? They kill more innocent people, including children, every single day than anything else. Where is the critical mass line there? When are we going to stop producing those weapons? Why isnt there an outcry regarding them? Why arent the media and politicians on their bully pulpits driving (no pun intended) that issue home? Because it doesnt serve their interest in trying to change the second amendment. That should tell you all you need to know. We really need to stop allowing the media and politicians to dictate the agenda.
    Try, just for once, to compare apples to apples. When comparing statistical deaths due to a firearm, why not try something completely whacky like comparing it to another device designed to be used as weapon. The FBI knows better than to compare horses to mules. Why don't you? This abused defensive line of yours is irresponsible.

    Knock yourself out and compare the FBI stats of total incidents of vehicular homicide with murder/homicide via the firearm of your choice. Go for it. It's your losing proposition, after all.
  7. #207  
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    Default Re: US Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    No Alex Jones, while being passionate about his beliefs and his support of the Constitution does not scare me. I don't really think he scares other people either. The people that scare me are people like Obama, Feinsteine(sp), Bloomburg, and Cumo. People that want big government and nanny state scare me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Synycalwon View Post
    My feelings as well. Anyone who wants to change the basic principles this country was founded on scare me. I just want government to stay the heck out of my life as much as possible, focus on national defense and general oversight, that's it! The rest I can take care of myself thank you very much!
    I agree. Although I've often thought, over the last 10~12 years or so. .Sheeeez, what a nutbar that Alex Jones guy can be sometimes. :rolleyes: . . . though all in all, he doesn't scare me one bit. Nevertheless, he unfortunately does get carried away, frequently, and kinda makes himself look and sound like a fool at times. I guess that's probably due to his passion; that's what I tend to think. He'd probably do much better to just administer his websites... and keep his mouth shut. Actually, his websites: infowars.com & prisonplanet.com both have a lot of right on stuff about the realities of what's really going on in this world.

    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty. Thomas Jefferson
  8. #208  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    To my knowledge no one here said they were afraid to leave their home without a weapon. I stated that I never left my home without one and a few people agreed with me.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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  9. #209  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    When you would rather leave it to be stolen in your car than leave it home for a trip outside, it is a sign of fear in my opinion.

    Sent from the nexus of the Android world, the SGS3.
  10. #210  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by piizzadude View Post
    When you would rather leave it to be stolen in your car than leave it home for a trip outside, it is a sign of fear in my opinion.

    Sent from the nexus of the Android world, the SGS3.
    You act like I just leave it laying on my seat for anyone to walk by and steal. It is in a vehicle gun safe, which is secured to the chassis of my truck. I know people that have guns in their homes that do not even have a gun safe. To me that is irresponsible.

    Making me responsible for the action's of a hypothetical thief is no better than all these people that want to blame the gun and not the shooter.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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  11. #211  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Murder is already legal, criminals don't give a flip about gun regulations and they ALWAYS had for gun free zones, just sayin'

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  12. #212  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    You act like I just leave it laying on my seat for anyone to walk by and steal. It is in a vehicle gun safe, which is secured to the chassis of my truck. I know people that have guns in their homes that do not even have a gun safe. To me that is irresponsible.

    Making me responsible for the action's of a hypothetical thief is no better than all these people that want to blame the gun and not the shooter.
    Leave a gun out of you control is irresponsible. We covered it already.

    Sent from the nexus of the Android world, the SGS3.
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  13. #213  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synycalwon View Post
    Dude, what are you talking about? You are making baseless allegations on hypothetical scenarios that do NOT apply to the person you're responding to. You have no leg to stand on what so ever. Please stop.
    Sort of like comparing vehicular accidents which result in death with the incidence of murder/homicide by firearm?
  14. #214  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post

    Every shooter in these mass shooters is either a criminal or a mental health patient. In all cases the laws on the books did nothing to stop them from getting the guns.
    This argument proves little. X happened so no law stopped it from happening. The law didn't work in those circumstances. Does that mean we give up and conclude that because Set A of laws didn't work than no set of laws can work? Make perfection the enemy of the good?

    Also, this argument ignores the times when the laws DID prevent someone dangerous from getting a gun.

    John Smith drove after drinking and killed Mary Joe. This happens every day. In all cases the laws on the books did nothing to stop them from drinking and driving. But Bob Jones saw the billboards about drinking and driving and was worried about getting pulled over so he called a cab. Do we throw out all the drunk driving laws and ignore their deterrent effect? Homicide laws are also broken at times. In all those murders the laws DID NOTHING to stop the murder. Guess they're not perfect, so let's throw up our hands and get rid of them?

    When laws are not as effective as desired you can do two things: give up or try to change the laws to increase their effectiveness. I would hope giving up is the last resort. If giving up was how we usually reacted, we'd have significantly fewer laws on the books. Have some pride and faith in your fellow Americans; sometimes things can be fixed.
    Last edited by whatwhat; 01-24-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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  15. #215  
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    Default Re: semiautomatic rifle NOT used at Newtown, Conn shooting!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    There were only 4 handguns were used. They also stated that Adam Lana tried to buy an AR-15 style rifle in another town but EXISTING laws stopped him. He was at the school within a week of the shooting and was in some type of altercation with school officials.

    Investigation is 'very complex' - Video on TODAY.com
    Your statement is incorrect and it has been debunked by Connecticut Police:

    State Police: All 26 Newtown victims shot with assault rifle - Connecticut Post

    State Police: All 26 Newtown victims shot with assault rifle

    Lt. J. Paul Vance, the face of an ongoing Connecticut State Police investigation into worst grade school shooting in U.S. history, on Thursday debunked media and Internet reports that Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza killed his victims with handguns and not the Bushmaster XM-15 rifle that is now the focus of a proposed federal assault weapons ban.
    All 26 of Lanza's victims were shot with the .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle, said Vance, who bristled at claims to the contrary during an interview with Hearst Connecticut Newspapers.
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  16. #216  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synycalwon View Post
    ......and that do NOT align with the fundamentals this country was founded on.
    Unfortunately for your argument, you've demonstrated no such knowledge. Bumper-sticker catchphrases, notwithstanding.
  17. #217  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synycalwon View Post
    Or you can do neither and enforce the laws that are already on the books. More often than not enacting more laws is just a knee jerk reaction to make people feel like something is being done or worse allows those with ulterior motives to enact unneeded change based on their own agendas.
    Specifically, which laws are not being enforced, which had they been properly enforced would have resulted in no deaths in tragedies such as Sandy Hook? Show your homework.
    Last edited by carolinadroid; 01-24-2013 at 05:00 PM.
  18. #218  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synycalwon View Post
    Apples to oranges or not, I stand by my point that many people are allowing themselves (knowingly or through ignorance) to be manipulated by the media and politicians to enact change to the second amendment when there is not a need for it. They're just using these events to effect change based on their own agendas and that do NOT align with the fundamentals this country was founded on.
    Thank GOD we aren't sticking to our "founding fundamentals". This country was founded by a bunch of religious European businessmen who didn't think women or minorities deserved any rights, hence the need for firepower. Kinda comes with the territory when you're stealing land from its rightful owners...

    Its not 1777 anymore. There is non need for people to be running around in public with firearms. You increase the chances of something going wrong every time you leave that weapon out of sight. A locked gun safe in your car is both a smart idea and a bad one...its out of hand if you need it.

    I have recently seen folks posting pictures of them walking around stores with their assault rifles....legal or not there is NO need for it. This is not the middle east, and I would think you'd be better off going to the Dr for your paranoid disorder then walking around McDonalds like you're some kind of modern day cowboy.

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  19. #219  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post

    I have recently seen folks posting pictures of them walking around stores with their assault rifles....legal or not there is NO need for it. This is not the middle east, and I would think you'd be better off going to the Dr for your paranoid disorder then walking around McDonalds like you're some kind of modern day cowboy.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Android Central Forums
    You are aware the weapons these guys are walking around with aren't the same as the one's me and my battles have overseas right?

    Also I've seen videos of some crazy people in McDonalds I would prefer to have a weapon over dealing with some of these people.

    Also why is it that only lives lost has been talked about what about lives saved due to firearms.

    If I'm responsible with an m4 both in the US and overseas why can I not own a weapon that feels the same. Why not make high capacity clips illegal why always the weapons themselves. I don't understand why y'all feel there is only one option.

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  20. #220  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    You'd rather have the option to shoot the people in McDonalds?

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  21. #221  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    You'd rather have the option to shoot the people in McDonalds?

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    If it kept some crazy cracked up psycho from hurting me or my family your f'n A right I would. You may live a sheltered life but there's a lot of evil in the world and I've seen it firsthand I won't go through that like I did before now that I'm older and have a child.

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  22. #222  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    Why not make high capacity clips illegal why always the weapons themselves. I don't understand why y'all feel there is only one option.
    Although there is more than one option currently being seriously considered ... what is past (wisdom) is prologue .....

    May 3, 1994

    To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives:

    We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.

    Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.

    The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.

    While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.

    Sincerely,

    Gerald R. Ford

    Jimmy Carter

    Ronald Reagan
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  23. #223  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    The american public in general is uneducated on the subject and their only real knowledge comes from news outlets that are largely biased. They hear assault weapon their first thought goes straight to automatic. Mention ak-47 to a good 70% of Americans I promise you they will think they are automatic because that's what they see in popular media. They think our m4's pop off rounds non-stop they don't know 99% of the time we use semi and that other 1% is 3 round burst. Educate those people without a bias then ask.

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  24. #224  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    If you look at the latest Gallup poll changes have to come. It's the will of the people at stake here:

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  25. #225  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    The american public in general is uneducated on the subject and their only real knowledge comes from news outlets that are largely biased. They hear assault weapon their first thought goes straight to automatic. Mention ak-47 to a good 70% of Americans I promise you they will think they are automatic because that's what they see in popular media. They think our m4's pop off rounds non-stop they don't know 99% of the time we use semi and that other 1% is 3 round burst. Educate those people without a bias then ask.
    When what sadly passes for "conservative" today avoids, like the plague, criminal weapons use statistics, they undermine our nation's highest ideals. Blood is on their hands which is unforgivable and unconscionable. Sensible conservatives of the recent past cannot recognize today's crop of weeds GOP.
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