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  1. #101  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by msndrstood View Post
    I agree with you on that. If Christie runs in 2016, he has a pretty good shot, even against Hillary. It will be close.

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  2. #102  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    I was agreeing that you guys didn't have a decent candidate, not that there weren't any at all, lol. Christie is your best hope, Obi-wan.

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  3. #103  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by msndrstood View Post
    I was agreeing that you guys didn't have a decent candidate, not that there weren't any at all, lol. Christie is your best hope, Obi-wan.

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    I was actually saying that nobody had a good candidate to choose from, from either side.



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  4. #104  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    We were like ships passing in the night and totally misunderstood each other. Kinda like the rest of the country. And Congress.

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  5. #105  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    I'm more worried about what will happen on the 17th, if congress can't come to an agreement. Don't you hate it when adults throw hissy fits?

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  6. #106  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    It won't be pretty. I think they're going to go for a short term CR and debt limit increase. Live to fight another week or two, more likely 6 weeks. They will be forced to fix it, yet again, before January 1. Wash, rinse, repeat.

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  7. #107  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    What the "Commander-in-Chief" needs to do immediately is to get the fallen soldiers' families paid their benefits. This is absolutely one of the most disgraceful things that I have ever seen from our government. And Obama can fix it in 5 minutes, but he hasn't. And Chuck Hagel needs to be fired if he knew about it, and did nothing. The families are having to rely on private donations.
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  8. #108  
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    So, I'm gathering that the group they're speaking of is the group that basically "created" the Tea Party, correct? If so, and it certainly appears that this rather small group of Republicans is controlling the entire party, then this is just as good a reason as any to say that we won't get a deal. Neither side will move on the same issue. That's a problem, especially when it looked like one side was going to blink, but then didn't, again because of this small minority of a much larger party.

    In that article is a link to , which makes some valid points, and doesn't mention the ACA at all, but does present multiple things where agreements could be reached. Seems as though some of these things are things that both sides want, and could probably reach a compromise on. But, because of stubbornness, the meetings that need to happen probably won't happen.

    So my question is this...why can't a CR be passed that doesn't touch the ACA but funds the government for a set period of time and then they can talk more about the ACA? Yes, I know, that's totally a band-aid solution, and we've already had this multiple times. Isn't the uncertainty of exactly what will happen if we default on our debt enough of a motivation for one side or the other to do something? Plus, do they really think they could hammer out every single issue that they have with the ACA in this short period of time before we default on our loans?

    I guess the other side is that since we have no idea what would happen if we default that it could be absolutely nothing, but I highly doubt things would just go on as "normal" with the world economy and stock markets if we were to default.


    It's kind of late where I am, so if that doesn't completely make sense I apologize. I saw those articles and wanted to bring them here.
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  9. #109  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by pappy53 View Post
    What the "Commander-in-Chief" needs to do immediately is to get the fallen soldiers' families paid their benefits. This is absolutely one of the most disgraceful things that I have ever seen from our government. And Obama can fix it in 5 minutes, but he hasn't. And Chuck Hagel needs to be fired if he knew about it, and did nothing. The families are having to rely on private donations.
    What can the POTUS do (not sure why commander in chief is in quotes, but that's not his function in this case anyways, so non-issue) if the House and Senate don't send him any bills? He can talk to them, but they're refusing to vote on bills. The Senate says it isn't going to approve any alacarte style funding, and the House isn't being allowed to vote on a clean CR, so literally everything they are working on is a complete waste of time, as it'll never be considered by the Senate.

    The President's role is to either enact via signature or veto legislation. Without the help of the Congress, he's just as helpless as the agencies that don't have any funds available to fulfill their functions. It sounds like a joint resolution would be perfect for this scenario. So what's the hold up? Step 1 is the Congress jointly agreeing upon a bill and sending it to the desk for review. Until that happens, I'm not sure exactly what you (or anyone) thinks a president can do, especially "in 5 minutes".

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  10. #110  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Quinn View Post
    So, I'm gathering that the group they're speaking of is the group that basically "created" the Tea Party, correct? If so, and it certainly appears that this rather small group of Republicans is controlling the entire party, then this is just as good a reason as any to say that we won't get a deal. Neither side will move on the same issue. That's a problem, especially when it looked like one side was going to blink, but then didn't, again because of this small minority of a much larger party.

    In that article is a link to , which makes some valid points, and doesn't mention the ACA at all, but does present multiple things where agreements could be reached. Seems as though some of these things are things that both sides want, and could probably reach a compromise on. But, because of stubbornness, the meetings that need to happen probably won't happen.

    So my question is this...why can't a CR be passed that doesn't touch the ACA but funds the government for a set period of time and then they can talk more about the ACA? Yes, I know, that's totally a band-aid solution, and we've already had this multiple times. Isn't the uncertainty of exactly what will happen if we default on our debt enough of a motivation for one side or the other to do something? Plus, do they really think they could hammer out every single issue that they have with the ACA in this short period of time before we default on our loans?

    I guess the other side is that since we have no idea what would happen if we default that it could be absolutely nothing, but I highly doubt things would just go on as "normal" with the world economy and stock markets if we were to default.


    It's kind of late where I am, so if that doesn't completely make sense I apologize. I saw those articles and wanted to bring them here.
    From what I've read alot of people, like Rand Paul, have tried to pass clean CR's as a bandaid to at least fund the govt while it's shut down, but they wont budge.
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  11. #111  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairclough View Post
    Mmmm I find that statement naive, as our current government with an old prime minister was heavily criticised for writing blank cheques to our allies, including the US when it came to financial aid.

    Secondly with the invasion, you don't sign treaties of your not willing to act on them.


    Interesting how students are losing out as universities aren't getting funding.

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    Maybe you forget the US coming to help Austrailia from the Japanese and being welcomed with open arms. Naive? Who?

    As far as univeristies, as much as people pay to go and they can't stay open? I dont see how you can't keep doors open to a school charging this much

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    The cost for one year of tuition and fees varies widely among colleges. According to the College Board, the average cost of tuition and fees for the 20122013 school year was $29,056 at private colleges, $8,655 for state residents at public colleges, and $21,706 for out-of-state residents attending public universities.
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  12. #112  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    Maybe you forget the US coming to help Austrailia from the Japanese and being welcomed with open arms. Naive? Who?

    As far as univeristies, as much as people pay to go and they can't stay open? I dont see how you can't keep doors open to a school charging this much

    Tuition and Fees Combined
    The cost for one year of tuition and fees varies widely among colleges. According to the College Board, the average cost of tuition and fees for the 20122013 school year was $29,056 at private colleges, $8,655 for state residents at public colleges, and $21,706 for out-of-state residents attending public universities.
    Governments heavily subside school fees. Our government does it a bit more as apparently for the community ones citizens only see 15% of the cost. While at the bigger ones we pay 10k a year which the gov pays for us and we repay interest free. This 10k does not include the subside were I estimate it to be about 15-30k as I know international students paying up to 4x the fees domestic students face, I expect the us to be similar. I just saw an LinkedIn article saying the uni's in the us being hit.

    As for the first bit, the Japanese didn't plan a take over as it was infeasible due yo geographic boundaries but to separate our military from accessing allies. I find it quiet ironic they did in recent times propose an alliance with us and China which was rejected due to current treaties. Secondly we do get also dragged into the us wars so it is a bit of a two way street under an allianxe and thirdly, we have been criticised for a lack of constraint when it comes to donations to governments particularly the US in the early 2000s.


    Any who back to the topic.
    I believe Obama is a genius, he doesn't have long in power so it is logical for him to make as many changes he believes is the best interest of the states as quickly as possible.

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  13. #113  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairclough View Post
    I believe Obama is a genius, he doesn't have long in power so it is logical for him to make as many changes he believes is the best interest of the states as quickly as possible.

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    Here in America, the President is supposed to do the will of it's citizens. Not to be a Ruler of it's citizens.

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  14. #114  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    Here in America, the President is supposed to do the will of it's citizens. Not to be a Ruler of it's citizens.

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    No, he's supposed to do what he thinks is best, not chase poll results around. He was already elected. That was "the will of it's citizens".

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  15. #115  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    Maybe you forget the US coming to help Austrailia from the Japanese and being welcomed with open arms. Naive? Who?

    As far as univeristies, as much as people pay to go and they can't stay open? I dont see how you can't keep doors open to a school charging this much

    Tuition and Fees Combined
    The cost for one year of tuition and fees varies widely among colleges. According to the College Board, the average cost of tuition and fees for the 20122013 school year was $29,056 at private colleges, $8,655 for state residents at public colleges, and $21,706 for out-of-state residents attending public universities.
    Also, and this is off topic, private schools don't make their money on tuition. They make it by running their endowment fund like a hedge fund. They could give the education away for free and not miss the money at all.

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  16. #116  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairclough View Post
    Governments heavily subside school fees. Our government does it a bit more as apparently for the community ones citizens only see 15% of the cost. While at the bigger ones we pay 10k a year which the gov pays for us and we repay interest free. This 10k does not include the subside were I estimate it to be about 15-30k as I know international students paying up to 4x the fees domestic students face, I expect the us to be similar. I just saw an LinkedIn article saying the uni's in the us being hit.
    And I suppose that the money that the government subsidies just come out of thin air? No, everyone else in the country pays for the education. The government has no money of its own, it only delegates the use of money that it takes from citizens. Anything that is "free" or "cheaper" is someone else paying for it.

    In the US i am predicting that the higher education bubble to pop here in the next few years. Prices cannot continue to rise while the value of the average degree not move. One of the main reasons prices have gotten so bad is because the Government provides "free" loans to anyone that will take one. These loans are usually lumped into "financial aid" and many times students think they are scholarships. Then people graduate from college with all this debt that they did know they had.
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  17. #117  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Quinn View Post
    No, he's supposed to do what he thinks is best, not chase poll results around. He was already elected. That was "the will of it's citizens".

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    So you're saying that once a President is elected, he doesn't need to be concerned about what we think. That's ridiculous.




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    Last edited by llamabreath; 10-10-2013 at 08:09 AM.
  18. #118  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    So you're saying that once a President is elected, he doesn't need to be concerned about what we think. That's ridiculous.




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    In reality no. He was elected because the majority believed that his idea of what's right was shared by them.

    He should worry, but he doesn't have to worry.

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  19. #119  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    And I suppose that the money that the government subsidies just come out of thin air? No, everyone else in the country pays for the education. The government has no money of its own, it only delegates the use of money that it takes from citizens. Anything that is "free" or "cheaper" is someone else paying for it.

    In the US i am predicting that the higher education bubble to pop here in the next few years. Prices cannot continue to rise while the value of the average degree not move. One of the main reasons prices have gotten so bad is because the Government provides "free" loans to anyone that will take one. These loans are usually lumped into "financial aid" and many times students think they are scholarships. Then people graduate from college with all this debt that they did know they had.
    I'm not trying to be mean, but whose fault is it that they don't know the difference when they read and sign all that paperwork?

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  20. #120  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Quinn View Post
    I'm not trying to be mean, but whose fault is it that they don't know the difference when they read and sign all that paperwork?

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
    It is of course theirs, but it is fare too easy imo. For me, it was literally not physically signing anything. It was just checking a box on a web site. The loans were in the same list mixed in with my scholarships. My first year i accepted a couple by mistake(just checking to accept financial aid). I of course immediately go them taken care of after i realized what i had done, but it was a very eye opening process.

    But again, you are right. It is ultimately their fault no matter how "easy" the process is. I just think that it should be more explicit. Especially sense this kids still in or just out of high school we are talking about filling out these web pages.
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  21. #121  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    It is of course theirs, but it is fare too easy imo. For me, it was literally not physically signing anything. It was just checking a box on a web site. The loans were in the same list mixed in with my scholarships. My first year i accepted a couple by mistake(just checking to accept financial aid). I of course immediately go them taken care of after i realized what i had done, but it was a very eye opening process.

    But again, you are right. It is ultimately their fault no matter how "easy" the process is. I just think that it should be more explicit. Especially sense this kids still in or just out of high school we are talking about filling out these web pages.
    I see your point. It should at least be a separate section or have done sort of pop up when you click on a loan.

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  22. #122  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Quinn View Post
    In reality no. He was elected because the majority believed that his idea of what's right was shared by them.

    He should worry, but he doesn't have to worry.

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    In response to the whole conversation:

    There are 2 theologies for how elected officials should act after elected:
    1. They represent the will of those that elected them.
    2. They were elected on merit of their views/character, and whatever they decide is best.

    Different people/politicians have different views on each. Neither is wrong per say. Just 2 different ways to look at it.
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  23. #123  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Quinn View Post
    No, he's supposed to do what he thinks is best, not chase poll results around. He was already elected. That was "the will of it's citizens".

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    Just like congress and senate are the will of the people.

    Sorry, but he can't just do what he wants. No man should have that much power and he should do what the will of the people is. I hope he doesn't want to ban automobiles because he believes it will be safer for everyone.


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  24. #124  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Quinn View Post
    I see your point. It should at least be a separate section or have done sort of pop up when you click on a loan.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
    There was of course the general "terms and conditions" section. But ya know
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  25. #125  
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    Default Re: U. S. Government shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    Just like congress and senate are the will of the people.

    Sorry, but he can't just do what he wants. No man should have that much power and he should do what the will of the people is. I hope he doesn't want to ban automobiles because he believes it will be safer for everyone.


    The majority is not always right, but it is more right than one man.

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    Of course he can't do whatever he wants. That's why we have checks and balances.

    Does it honestly matter who's "right"sometimes? The majority will still get to decide what happens. Besides the fact that rarely if ever is there a clear cut "right" (as in factually correct and devoid of opinion) answer. It's usually an educated guess and/or opinion.

    "Right" does not always mean "agrees with my ideas and opinions".

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