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  1. #76  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Try riding against their flow of traffic, and in the middle of the lane. That'll show 'em.

    Seriously, ride on the left of the lane (UK). there is enough room for a car to get past safely. If you stubbornly slow traffic down by riding in the centre or two bikes side by side you will get some seriously pissed off motorists. And when people get angry is when accidents happen.

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  2. Thread Author  Thread Author    #77  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    J
    Quote Originally Posted by dakeb View Post
    Try riding against their flow of traffic, and in the middle of the lane. That'll show 'em.

    Seriously, ride on the left of the lane (UK). there is enough room for a car to get past safely. If you stubbornly slow traffic down by riding in the centre or two bikes side by side you will get some seriously pissed off motorists. And when people get angry is when accidents happen.

    Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2
    Only the case if the lane is 12ft or wider other wise no it is not.
    Reason being is bike will take up 2ft -3ft of the lane, followed by another 3ft for min safe passing distance. That leaves 6-7ft of the lane left for the car. Concerning that most cars are 6ft or wider that leaves less than 1ft of room left for margin of error.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
  3. #78  

    Default

    Two wide is the safest, sticking on the left (Aus) forces cars to go in the other lane (2 lanes both sides road).

    The only time I ride on the middle is A) Changing lanes or Turning Right. B) Through a roundabout (it's ridiculously dangerous and attempted so often by cars to cut the inside forcing bikes into the curb when they ride wide)

    I find head on traffic is just silly. I am OK with Semi's passing on the side, you just have to allow some room for the wind to blow you a bit off the road.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    Tom Fairclough
    Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae
    I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune
  4. #79  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    I've actually always thought that it's safer for the bicyclist to ride facing traffic so they can see what vehicles coming toward them are doing, as opposed to riding with flow of traffic and not knowing what's coming up behind them, thus slim chance of the bicyclist being able to take any necessary evasive maneuvers in time.

    Yes, illegal, but I think safer for the bicyclist.

    ⊙⊙ Signatures, shmignatures
    It used to be this way when I was growing up. We were always taught to ride our bikes against traffic, not with it. Like you said, this way you can see what's coming at you and take action if needed. Riding with traffic, you have no idea what is coming up behind you. Seems very unsafe to me, I always thought it was ridiculous they changed the law.
    I don't ride on busy roads anymore and stick to surrounding neighborhoods near my home.

    tap'n
    Last edited by CR6; 11-17-2013 at 09:31 PM.
  5. #80  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Sometimes, I swear I feel like I'm a foreigner picking on Americans. I keep wanting to say, "Only in America..."

    I drive, and I also do a lot of local-area biking. I always try to be careful around cyclists, and when I am a cyclist I always try to act like I'm driving a car and give the other motorists the same courtesy, if not more, than what is legally required. Usually I find motorists stunned by the fact that I don't just try and cut them off or do something stupid. Yes, a cyclist is sharing a roadway with objects significantly more massive than them, and yes obviously practical care and consideration must be taken and given (respectively; see what I just did there, linguistically?) but at the same time it is far more than a cop-out for drivers to say "Well, cyclists are just inconsiderate bucks (different first letter) for existing in the first place." To heck with that. That's the worst sort of mentality.

    Again, it's typical American thinking. "I'm the only one who is important, and anyone who isn't helping me get what I want is interfering in my self-satisfaction."
  6. #81  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    J

    Only the case if the lane is 12ft or wider other wise no it is not.
    Reason being is bike will take up 2ft -3ft of the lane, followed by another 3ft for min safe passing distance. That leaves 6-7ft of the lane left for the car. Concerning that most cars are 6ft or wider that leaves less than 1ft of room left for margin of error.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Stop assuming cars can't cross the white line just a little. Often, even with a car coming the opposite way there is easily sufficient room for two cars and a bike to pass each other.

    Creating a two bike obstruction will ultimately cause an accident.

    Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2
  7. #82  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Mike 2145 View Post
    ....Again, it's typical American thinking. "I'm the only one who is important, and anyone who isn't helping me get what I want is interfering in my self-satisfaction."
    +1 I agree. There's is to much emphasis in our society on "me"osis. Always looking out for #1. To heck with the other guy, what's in it for me.
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  8. #83  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    If you think this mentality is only in the US, you clearly haven't traveled outside this country. Not saying it's right, but it is worldwide and more of a generational thing imo. That said, I do agree. It's unfortunate.

    tap'n
    Last edited by CR6; 11-18-2013 at 07:31 PM.
  9. #84  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Well driving 50mph on a highway and you have to make a split decision who's life are you going to try to protect yours or the car or cycler you know

    Q10, HTC One, Nexus 7, Moto X
  10. #85  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    That should be the exception, not an all-the-time kind of thing.

    If a pedestrian were to suddenly and randomly jump out in front of your fast moving car, you're going to hit (and probably kill) that person. They are at fault for their death, not you the driver. Likewise, there are plenty of cyclists and motorcycle riders who are irresponsible and reckless and therefore get what they deserve when someone clips, hits, or kills them.

    But there are also so many bassholes behind the wheel of cars/trucks out there, and so we must do what we can to protect all parties.
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  11. #86  

    Default

    On a ride yesterday. Following all laws we got 5 holding the horn on an basically empty road when in single file. 2 friendly quick beeps (1 truck just saying his nearby and 1 encouraging people on) and 2 idiots who over took than slammed the breaks on and parked in the middle of the road wanting us to fly into the back of them. At 70kmph (40 miles per hour - hills rides can have pace) that's a good way to try and kill someone.

    We were stoked to see 2 friendly drivers, plenty were good blokes for waiting a few extra seconds to turn, but the few idiots make it extremely frustrating. E.g there is no reason to hold your horn down when its single file, its two lanes both ways and completely empty. Than to hit the brakes in front trying to get someone to run into the back of your car is plain stupid. I can honestly say the next time someone does it I would not be surprised if someone goes into the back of them or breaks their window in the process.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    Tom Fairclough
    Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae
    I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune
  12. #87  
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    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairclough View Post
    On a ride yesterday. Following all laws we got 5 holding the horn on an basically empty road when in single file. 2 friendly quick beeps (1 truck just saying his nearby and 1 encouraging people on) and 2 idiots who over took than slammed the breaks on and parked in the middle of the road wanting us to fly into the back of them. At 70kmph (40 miles per hour - hills rides can have pace) that's a good way to try and kill someone.

    We were stoked to see 2 friendly drivers, plenty were good blokes for waiting a few extra seconds to turn, but the few idiots make it extremely frustrating. E.g there is no reason to hold your horn down when its single file, its two lanes both ways and completely empty. Than to hit the brakes in front trying to get someone to run into the back of your car is plain stupid. I can honestly say the next time someone does it I would not be surprised if someone goes into the back of them or breaks their window in the process.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    It always seems like the angry drivers are also the worst at driving. Today I was coming out of a shopping mall. Stopped at a stop sign and coming out when some ***** New Jersey driver just flies out of the other side of the mall(there's 2 buildings) at about 30mph. Then that driver decides to go about half of a snail pace. Holding me back will just hold yourself back and if you want a 4500 pound SUV crashing into your back end I'm happily obliged to do that.

    Sent from HTC Note Ultra Pro on T-Mobile
    Fairclough likes this.
  13. #88  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Not sure about there, but in the U.S., many places automatically assign fault on the person that rear ends someone else, regardless of actual fault. I believe that's even written into law in those places, which people looking to make a quick buck take advantage of. They do like the cars in your story and pass someone and slam on the breaks to get rear ended and then collect the insurance money. Often times targeting big rigs so can also sue the company for big bucks. We call it the pass and squat.

    Just something to think about if people do it to you on the bikes, in addition to the inherent danger of pulling a stunt like that.
  14. #89  
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    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Not sure about there, but in the U.S., many places automatically assign fault on the person that rear ends someone else, regardless of actual fault. I believe that's even written into law in those places, which people looking to make a quick buck take advantage of. They do like the cars in your story and pass someone and slam on the breaks to get rear ended and then collect the insurance money. Often times targeting big rigs so can also sue the company for big bucks. We call it the pass and squat.

    Just something to think about if people do it to you on the bikes, in addition to the inherent danger of pulling a stunt like that.
    That's why I have a dash cam

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  15. #90  

    Default

    I think fault isn't automatically assigned here as I've heard people claim because someone pulled in front of them etc slamming the brakes. Most part our assigning of fault is ok like as most my age are P platers ( probation licence- not full yet) a mate got cleaned up by a lady doing something similar - except cut across his lane. She tried saying he was at fault, fortunately the police said it was clear she was fault and he managed to get what he bought his Holden (chev) for as it was basically unusable.

    Fun fact. Police will allow you to run a red if its just changed and you have a truck behind in case it is unable to stop in time. However generally most highways have lights a few hundred metres before the traffic lights indicating if it will change soon to give adequate notice.
    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    Tom Fairclough
    Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae
    I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune
  16. Thread Author  Thread Author    #91  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by dakeb View Post
    Stop assuming cars can't cross the white line just a little. Often, even with a car coming the opposite way there is easily sufficient room for two cars and a bike to pass each other.

    Creating a two bike obstruction will ultimately cause an accident.

    Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2
    Then I will point out to a safety issue and legal. Crossing the line a little is the same as needing to make a land change. At 10 ft wide this would put min safe passing at 5 ft aka half way. This would force to be passing car into the other lane a little. Most people will not do that. Instead they would crowd the biker cutting deeply into the safe 3ft safety zone.
    It also illegal to cross the line and not make a lane change.
    Dead center is yes all about safety and the fact it makes a full land change happen which means the cyclist will get a lot more than 3ft of room.
    You remove the option to even try the squeeze when a driver is passing as most will not do a full line change and they should not be able doing a straddle legally or safely with on coming traffic. Do you want a head on hit.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
  17. #92  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Maybe we cyclists should all just carry concealed and then take care of the situation ourselves. Eventually motorists would get the message: screw around with a cyclist and you might never see your family or friends again.
  18. #93  
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    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Mike 2145 View Post
    Maybe we cyclists should all just carry concealed and then take care of the situation ourselves. Eventually motorists would get the message: screw around with a cyclist and you might never see your family or friends again.
    That goes both ways. I have a ccw also. And as I've stated before in this thread, cyclists are not without blame.

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  19. Thread Author  Thread Author    #94  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    That goes both ways. I have a ccw also. And as I've stated before in this thread, cyclists are not without blame.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    But I would argue the motorist bare a much larger responsible as they a tree and handling a very large and heavy object.
    Sadly they think it should be cyclists who should be the more responsible party. Sorry but the responsibly is 10x more on the driver as an error on their part is a much larger risk to life and property and remember they do not own the road.

    Sadly cops do not enforce laws on motorist worth squat.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
  20. #95  
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    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    But I would argue the motorist bare a much larger responsible as they a tree and handling a very large and heavy object.
    Sadly they think it should be cyclists who should be the more responsible party. Sorry but the responsibly is 10x more on the driver as an error on their part is a much larger risk to life and property and remember they do not own the road.

    Sadly cops do not enforce laws on motorist worth squat.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Not really, if you choose to ride on a highway with no shoulders, hairpin turns, and trees to keep you from seeing around those curves, you yourself are responsible for your own safety. No one wants to run over anyone, but choose a good place to ride. Bear responsibility for your own actions.

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  21. #96  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Its legal to ride on a highway. I suggest drivers stop treating bikes like trees. You do not know how many try to cut bikes off to take a corner because they think the bike will just 'stop moving' or use the excuse 'I was faster there fore I thought I could turn in front'. Yes I have heard those before straight after a car cut us off and a cyclists went straight into their door.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    Tom Fairclough
    Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae
    I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune
  22. Thread Author  Thread Author    #97  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    Not really, if you choose to ride on a highway with no shoulders, hairpin turns, and trees to keep you from seeing around those curves, you yourself are responsible for your own safety. No one wants to run over anyone, but choose a good place to ride. Bear responsibility for your own actions.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    That response speaks volumes about the problem with motorist. They have a complete lack of understanding of the fact they are driving a very large, heavy and powerful object. That privileged comes with massive responsibilities. Something that is pretty clear that most do not understand.

    Driving is a privilege not a right. I suggest you remember that.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
  23. #98  
    Serial Fordicator's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    That response speaks volumes about the problem with motorist. They have a complete lack of understanding of the fact they are driving a very large, heavy and powerful object. That privileged comes with massive responsibilities. Something that is pretty clear that most do not understand.

    Driving is a privilege not a right. I suggest you remember that.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Your response also speaks volumes.
    I suggest you practice what you preach and quit trying to lay responsibility on everyone else because its inconvenient for you.

    You come on here with a victim mentality and expect people to drive 10 mph around blind curves so you can ride up and down the highway in your spandex. Of course, its all about you.

    If anyone is so worried about motorists, maybe they should stick to bicycle paths like my wife and I do.

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  24. #99  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Remember, roads were built for cars, trucks, and other fast moving motorized traffic. Not bicycles. So if you're riding on a road without an actual bike lane or markings indicating bike use, you need to understand you're taking on much more risk, and other vehicles aren't going to be expecting cyclists using it. If the road is curvy, yes it is possible for a car to come around a curve and not have any warning that a cyclist is in their lane simply because of the speed differential and terrain.
  25. Thread Author  Thread Author    #100  

    Default Re: Is it ok to kill cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Remember, roads were built for cars, trucks, and other fast moving motorized traffic. Not bicycles. So if you're riding on a road without an actual bike lane or markings indicating bike use, you need to understand you're taking on much more risk, and other vehicles aren't going to be expecting cyclists using it. If the road is curvy, yes it is possible for a car to come around a curve and not have any warning that a cyclist is in their lane simply because of the speed differential and terrain.
    Even the you missed the part that drivers need to understand the responsibility of driving.
    Also if they are paying attention even on those "blind" corners they should of seen the cyclist before they disappear around the turn and adjusted their speed to account for it.
    No one is arguing that cyclist are not assuming some risk. What the argument is the fact motorist are being not being held accountable for their responsibility.
    Your argument fails at they where not paying attention ahead of time. Nor does it address the fact far to may motorist act like they own the road and then risk the lives of the cyclist by trying to pass to closely. They are not being held accountable for their bad action.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
    Fairclough likes this.
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