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  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  
    NoYankees44's Avatar

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    Default Just a thought...

    Every paycheck(for most people), taxes are taken out automatically. Streamlining the process and making it an accepted part of life. You can even voluntarily and easily give too much and allow the government to use your money interest free for up to a year.

    What if paying income tax was a more active process. Like paying any other bill. You have to write a check and sent it to the government. Would people start to have a stronger connection to their money that the government is spending? Would they care more about the debt and general waste? Would they just be more angry and not make the connection?

    The reason I ask is because I rarely see people mad about government waste or spending money where they do not want it to be spent. They seem to think that it is not their money at all, but rather the government's money. They do not connect road workers slacking off or paid interest on the national debt to their own paychecks. This is very disturbing to me and makes me fearful for the future. So would paying taxes become a more active process change this?

    Discuss
    Galaxy S3(unlocked on whatever I feel like flashing) ---- Asus Tf300(unlocked on CROMI)
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  2. #2  

    Default Re: Just a thought...

    I do not think it would change people. Instead they would become more selfish and complain about it. Also I would see a lot of people struggling to handle the tax bill ever 3 months as they would not save for it.
    Lets face it our saving rate is at 1%. 1% is anything not spent after taxes. Paying down debt counts as part of the savings rate. Saving for retirement counts into the savings rate.

    That should speak volumes right there that most people who struggle being able to pay that bill. They would spend that money and then wonder why they do not have anything to pay the bill.
    I know if my paycheck jumped by close to 700ish a month that I would struggle saving that amount set aside to pay my tax bill ever 3 months. It more because my spending would go up. Now could I afford to pay it yes but my over all savings would suffer. I am projecting a pretty much near zero refund on my taxes. Might have to pay a little.
    But still having to pay it on my own would turn into well just another painful bill I have to pay.
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
  3. Thread Author  Thread Author    #3  
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    Default Re: Just a thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    I do not think it would change people. Instead they would become more selfish and complain about it. Also I would see a lot of people struggling to handle the tax bill ever 3 months as they would not save for it.
    Lets face it our saving rate is at 1%. 1% is anything not spent after taxes. Paying down debt counts as part of the savings rate. Saving for retirement counts into the savings rate.

    That should speak volumes right there that most people who struggle being able to pay that bill. They would spend that money and then wonder why they do not have anything to pay the bill.
    I know if my paycheck jumped by close to 700ish a month that I would struggle saving that amount set aside to pay my tax bill ever 3 months. It more because my spending would go up. Now could I afford to pay it yes but my over all savings would suffer. I am projecting a pretty much near zero refund on my taxes. Might have to pay a little.
    But still having to pay it on my own would turn into well just another painful bill I have to pay.
    So complaint is bad? Does it not give cause to become a part of the political process and actually keep tabs on where the money is going?

    So your reasoning is because everyone is irresponsible? That it should be easy so that people will not have to budget? That is a terrible expectation. It not only encourages irresponsibility and dependence, it tells everyone that it is OK while quietly calling them stupid.
    Galaxy S3(unlocked on whatever I feel like flashing) ---- Asus Tf300(unlocked on CROMI)
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  4. #4  

    Default Re: Just a thought...

    I did have to pay my taxes for most of my life as a self employed person. It is a painful bill as Timelessblur says and that's the point really. When you have to pay it you do think more about it.

    NYC, NYS, and Federal taxes. That will put the smell of coffee in the air.

    Sent from my LG870 via Tapatalk 2
  5. #5  

    Default Re: Just a thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    So complaint is bad? Does it not give cause to become a part of the political process and actually keep tabs on where the money is going?

    So your reasoning is because everyone is irresponsible? That it should be easy so that people will not have to budget? That is a terrible expectation. It not only encourages irresponsibility and dependence, it tells everyone that it is OK while quietly calling them stupid.
    It is more the fact that people are stupid. No getting around the fact that people as a whole are stupid. A single person is generally fairly smart but people as whole are stupid.

    Most people do not know how to budget. Most people live pay check to pay check. They are only like 1 or 2 paychecks away from being completely screwed. Yes it is really sad.
    Having everyone writing the check would not cause people to be more involved or even thinking about it to a large degree. I do not see people thinking about it much after it is a stupid bill.

    People who budget or really do track their money tend to already know how much is roughly going to taxes or know how it is done. People would struggle understanding that the money set aside for taxes is spent GONE and set it aside for the single check.

    As for your part about a road worker "slacking off" chances are it would be a worker taking a break or waiting for something else to finish so they can go back to work. Sorry they work a lot harder than most people do who have nice desk jobs.

    I honestly think more people in large would struggle paying the bill and then you would have wasted money dealing with collections. Plus it cost more to process all those checks.
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
  6. Thread Author  Thread Author    #6  
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    Default Re: Just a thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    It is more the fact that people are stupid. No getting around the fact that people as a whole are stupid. A single person is generally fairly smart but people as whole are stupid.

    Most people do not know how to budget. Most people live pay check to pay check. They are only like 1 or 2 paychecks away from being completely screwed. Yes it is really sad.
    Having everyone writing the check would not cause people to be more involved or even thinking about it to a large degree. I do not see people thinking about it much after it is a stupid bill.

    People who budget or really do track their money tend to already know how much is roughly going to taxes or know how it is done. People would struggle understanding that the money set aside for taxes is spent GONE and set it aside for the single check.

    As for your part about a road worker "slacking off" chances are it would be a worker taking a break or waiting for something else to finish so they can go back to work. Sorry they work a lot harder than most people do who have nice desk jobs.

    I honestly think more people in large would struggle paying the bill and then you would have wasted money dealing with collections. Plus it cost more to process all those checks.
    So people are stupid and should not be held to high standards... Gotcha
    Galaxy S3(unlocked on whatever I feel like flashing) ---- Asus Tf300(unlocked on CROMI)
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  7. #7  

    Default Re: Just a thought...

    Assuming that taxes were not automatically withheld and everyone had to pay them manually, and assuming that most people wouldn't budget for this and therefore at the end of the year (or quarter, even) would come up short, the next question is: what exactly would the IRS do about it? Put everyone in jail?

    If nobody bothered to pay their taxes, there wouldn't be the personnel to go after everyone, nor would there be the facilities (courts, jails, prisons, cop cars and SWAT vans, etc.) to handle it all.

    Posted via Android Central App
  8. #8  
    llamabreath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just a thought...

    No time to read all this right now, so I'll just sprinkle some Flat Tax spice into this dish.

    *Added benefit:
    Now it's easily accessible in my Participated Threads list.



    (⊙_⊙) I think people that take the time out of their day (or night) to think of some clever, memorable or just plain dumb signature probably have way too much time on their collective hands and they should get back to work and earn their paycheck, instead of just expecting their paycheck. People like this make me sick to my stomach.
    Last edited by llamabreath; 12-02-2013 at 08:20 PM.
    palandri likes this.
  9. #9  

    Default Re: Just a thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    No time to read all this right now, so I'll just sprinkle some Flat Tax spice into this dish.....
    That would certainly be fairer than what we have now, but it would have to have no exceptions - period.
  10. #10  

    Default Re: Just a thought...

    I'm a Fair Tax supporter, and the Fair Tax book addressed this very notion when covering the history of the income tax in America. It's been a while since I've read it (well, listened, as I have it via Audible), but I think they said automatic withholding was one of the ideas government came up with to convince the public to allow passage of the income tax into law. It being sold on the idea of being convenient for the tax payer, the result was a more complacent tax payer. They could now manipulate taxes and most people wouldn't notice a higher or lower percentage taken from their check. I personally think if withholding were removed, people would start paying more attention to what the government spends, as writing that check or running a debit card would have them feel the loss of that money more than taking it before they see it.

    And speaking of the Fair Tax, they also addressed the notion of a flat tax and various exemptions. Basically that had been tried before, at least being flatter than it is today, and now look where we are. The tax code is more complicated than anything, thanks to all the lobbyists and political pandering. Simply going to a flat tax system doesn't work, as it keeps in place much that has caused our current tax structure to be what it is today. The Fair Tax eliminates all that, even eliminates the IRS, and April 15th becomes just another Spring day.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
  11. #11  

    Default Re: Just a thought...

    I support a flat tax so long as it never goes above 10 percent and everyone is on the hook, no exceptions. I want everyone to have skin in the game.
    The government needs to live up to but not beyond its needs. I could never operate like they do. I have been responsible for 56 years. Never failed, never filed for bankruptcy
    always paid and retired the mortgage, have no dept what so ever. Have always supported the underclass whether I wanted to or not. Paid for the make believe war on poverty which after 50 years is still going on. Paid for every little thing that was supposed to solve the various problem in society. None of it bore any fruit, it all was wasted. I want a damn refund for playing by the rules and not being a damn burden to anyone else. Try solving your own problems like I did.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
  12. #12  

    Default Re: Just a thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bratigan View Post
    I support a flat tax so long as it never goes above 10 percent and everyone is on the hook, no exceptions. I want everyone to have skin in the game.
    The government needs to live up to but not beyond its needs. I could never operate like they do. I have been responsible for 56 years. Never failed, never filed for bankruptcy
    always paid and retired the mortgage, have no dept what so ever. Have always supported the underclass whether I wanted to or not. Paid for the make believe war on poverty which after 50 years is still going on. Paid for every little thing that was supposed to solve the various problem in society. None of it bore any fruit, it all was wasted. I want a damn refund for playing by the rules and not being a damn burden to anyone else. Try solving your own problems like I did.
    Not everyone can be perfect like you were/are. Some people run into financial problems some of which are their fault, and some that are not. The idea that since you did everything right, you should get your paid taxes refunded because poverty still exists, or because according to you your money was waisted is ridiculous. Do you not use roads? Do you not benefit from public facilities or services? Be happy that you live in a country that gave you the resources and means by which to succeed. Our tax rates are very low and the notion that a multi millionaire should only pay a 10 percent tax rate is laughable. A flat tax would be nothing more than an upwards distribution of wealth from the lower and middle class to the very wealthy. Anytime someone less fortunate needs help, the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" crowd is there to condemn them, it's sickening. So while I'm very proud of you for being perfect throughout your life, the selfish attitude of those like you is disgusting.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using AC Forums mobile app
    Last edited by benhmadison; 12-03-2013 at 12:01 PM.
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  13. #13  
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    Default Re: Just a thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    Every paycheck(for most people), taxes are taken out automatically. Streamlining the process and making it an accepted part of life. You can even voluntarily and easily give too much and allow the government to use your money interest free for up to a year.
    Something tells me that idea would not work very well.
    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuise any errors.

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