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  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  

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    I really like Christmas. It's sentimental, I know, but I just really like it. I am hardly religious, I'd rather break bread with Dawkins than Desmond Tutu, to be honest and yes, I have all of the usual objections to consumerism. The commercialisation of an ancient religion to the westernisation of a dead Palestinian press-ganged into selling Playstations and beer But I still really like it. I'm looking forward to Christmas though I'm not expecting a visit from Jesus. Like most I'll be seeing my dad, My brothers and sister, my gran and my mum.They'll be drinking white wine in the sun.

    I don't go in for ancient wisdom. I don't believe just 'cos ideas are tenacious it means they're worthy. I get freaked out by churches, Some of the hymns that they sing have nice chords but the lyrics are spooky and yes I have all of the usual objections to the mis-education of children who, in tax-exempt institutions, Are taught to externalise blame and to feel ashamed and to judge things as plain right and wrong. But I quite like the songs.


    To be fair, the above was just reworded lyrics from Tim Minchin's White Wine in the sun (video below) - not one of his better songs but it got me thinking about Christmas, whether you believe in a dead palestine as the son of God (christianity), a prophet (Muslim and judaism both believe in Christ as prophet) or whatever your faith, have a merry Christmas and enjoy the holidays. All the best for you and your families. Your probably wondering why this is in politics, it goes hand in hand with religious topics and events.

    Last edited by Fairclough; 12-17-2013 at 06:28 AM.
    » Tom Fairclough «
    » Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae «
    » I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune «
  2. #2  

    Default Re: Christmas

    I like Christmas for all the opposite reasons. What an awful song! Oh well, no matter the reason anyone may enjoy it, I wish a happy and safe Christmas to all.

    Sent from my LG870 via Tapatalk 2
    palandri and Fairclough like this.
  3. #3  

    Default Re: Christmas

    Oops, sorry Fairclough, I didn't listen to the song, seems it's your sentiments and non-beliefs I disagree with... But in the Christmas spirit you can be forgiven...

    Sent from my LG870 via Tapatalk 2
    palandri likes this.
  4. #4  

    Default Re: Christmas

    He's having a bad hair day and his eye liner and eye shadow is too dark for his light complexion and hair color.

    I like Christmas, in fact, i am still like a little kid on Christmas Eve.
    Fairclough and mrsmumbles like this.
  5. #5  
    msndrstood's Avatar

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    Default Re: Christmas

    I could skip the entire season if it weren't for the munchkins. My father died on Christmas night and it will never be the same for me. But I wish the best for everyone who celebrates. :thumbup:

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  6. #6  

    Default Re: Christmas

    I love Christmas too. I'm not religious, I just love all the pretty light displays and some of the songs (I especially loath any slow and/or depressing ones). But back go the lights, those pretty lights, I'm amazed by some of the complex displays coming out by regular home owners. I mean fully choreographed light shows and animatronics set to music!
  7. Thread Author  Thread Author    #7  

    Default Re: Christmas

    To be fair the consumerism is what makes it fun, I thought they were clever lyrics though. Yeah Tim Minchin does look a bit funny, believe it or not he doesn't do drugs apparently. He has very black humour if you watch his other videos.

    If you listen to the song, he talks about his family and his baby daughter when she's 21 or 31 that they will be the people who will care for her no matter what.

    - Android Central App. N'oublions jamais l'Australie, Villers-Bretonneux. Prepare for January 26.
    » Tom Fairclough «
    » Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae «
    » I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune «
    mrsmumbles likes this.
  8. #8  

    Default Re: Christmas

    Only on AndroidCentral can one find a Christmas greetings thread that is contentious and controversial. :-p

    Just kidding, but I'm waiting for this thread to be turned into a flaming screed by others on here.

    In the meantime, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all, and, to quote Bill and Ted, "be excellent to one another".
  9. #9  
    jdbii's Avatar

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    Default Re: Christmas

    Happy Holidays AC! I hope you and yours can get together and share joy, happiness, love, and find a Moto X (or two) under your tree.
  10. #10  
    Darth Spock's Avatar

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    Default Re: Christmas



    It doesn't matter if you celebrate the 40 day Nativity Fast or Advent or Saint Nicholas' Day, or Bodhi Day or Out Lady of Guadalupe.

    Maybe you like Saint Lucia's Day or the Winter Solstice, the Dongzhi Festival or Soyal. Yalda is fun, Modraniht and Saturnalia too, Dies Natalis Solis Invicti is on Christmas, the last day of twelve.

    You can celebrate Yule, or Anastasia of Sirmium Feast Day, Malkh and Kwanzaa, Boxing Day or Saint Stephen's Day, Holy Innocent's Day and Saint Sly's day (New Year's Eve in America).

    Watch Night, Hogmanay or Chanukkah, New Year's Day or Saint Basil's Day (Father Christmas), Epiphany or the Armenian Apostolic Christmas.

    Whatever you're celebrating, do it well and have some fun There's enough love and grace to spread cheer to everyone. Happy Holidays!



    I love it all, the lights, music, food, the way some people light up. I could live without the drama in the media, the stress it adds to some people and that massive push for unmitigated consumer waste. But some people love that and I'm not going to stop them, and not to sound hypocritical but I love shopping for gifts for my family, wrapping them and I hope I mentioned the food. Raising a glass to everyone this holiday season, regardless of what you celebrate and/or why.

    If I recall correctly, New Zealand and Aussietown celebrate Christmas around July 4th.... Oh well, good cheer to the Southern Tribes too.

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  11. Thread Author  Thread Author    #11  

    Default Re: Christmas

    He he nice little last comment, sorry 25th as well. Just our Christmas is sunny and about 45 degrees Celsius or 113 degrees Fahrenheit.

    Did you know Jesus was not born on the 25th? It was moved to fit in with the Christian calendar. Second fact; did you know there is a 8 year leeway when he could of been born (calculated by the ruling time of kings)

    - Android Central App. N'oublions jamais l'Australie, Villers-Bretonneux. Prepare for January 26.
    » Tom Fairclough «
    » Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae «
    » I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune «
  12. #12  
    Darth Spock's Avatar

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    Default Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairclough View Post
    He he nice little last comment, sorry 25th as well. Just our Christmas is sunny and about 45 degrees Celsius or 113 degrees Fahrenheit.

    Did you know Jesus was not born on the 25th? It was moved to fit in with the Christian calendar. Second fact; did you know there is a 8 year leeway when he could of been born (calculated by the ruling time of kings)

    - Android Central App. N'oublions jamais l'Australie, Villers-Bretonneux. Prepare for January 26.
    For the last 1600-1700 years the 25th of December has been used by many Christians to celebrate the birth of Jesus, but it wasn't until very recently that anyone tried connecting the festival with his actual birth. I don't think that anyone hardly anyone who's studied theology thinks that Yeshua (we're none of us probably Greek) was born on December 25th anymore, especially of year 0 or year 1 or whatever.

    The "Church" moved away from that premise a long time ago and throughout the ages has adjusted when precisely they think the birth sequence could have taken place, but putting it in the context of other historical figures is a mistake that they've also moved away from. Some of the dating methods are forced, while others are completely made up (the Census) and if the world's most renowned theologians and classical historical scholars are unwilling to even define a position, let alone come to consensus, I think any of us trying to assert one date over another would be at best misguided or delusional as to the relevance of sources being used.

    As of about 200 C.E. the closest scholars had come was to put it around May 20th (of our calendar), however by the 4th century most traditions used December 25th or January 6th as dates to celebrate the birth (not the same thing as declaring it's his birthday). The primary reasoning for the 25th as the celebration, is in fact the solstice. It has some very nice and elegant astrological correlations with the nativity story, including the Three Kings (stars in Orion's belt that point at the Sirius (The Star in the East) on December 24th), while these 4 stars align and point at the sunrise on December 25th. Likewise, there is a correlation between the nativity story with "Bethlehem", which translates in Hebrew and Aramaic to "House of Bread". House of Bread is also another name for Virgo, or "the virgin", which is applied metaphorically to Mary. The entire life of Jesus, as well as the lives of his family and followers, can be expressed astrologically and indeed, these connections are exploited both by theists and those trying to debunk gospels alike, as proof for both causes. The reality is probably closer to the middle, in that the retelling of stories evolved over time to include more followers of different belief structures being invited to join Christianity, rather than anything sinister.

    Celebrating the birth of the Son of God (and the birth of the Sun) has happened near what we think of as December 24th/25th for thousands of years longer than there have been Christians and aligning the Christian celebration of the birth of the Son of God to the existing celebrations was probably much easier then trying to convince everyone to abandon their thousand year old traditions in favor of a new upstart religion.

    Consider one of the oldest signs in all language:



    The oldest known examples of this symbol are carved in stone by people who we know next to nothing about. The symbol was used in Sumerian carvings dated to between 6,000 and 15,000 years old, built in Marble as early as 4,000 years ago, used in architecture around 3500 years ago, used on coins across what's now Europe and the Middle East with examples around 900 BC and 500 BC, etc. The adoption of this symbol by Christianity is relatively new, though the most recognized today. The example above is the zodiac cross, meant to represent the earth and/or sun and the 12 primary constellations. The Cross is also the earliest known depiction of the concept of the Tree of Life concept, in ancient Asia, ancient Persia, Ancient Egypt and just about every culture in between the ancient world and our modern language of symbols.

    I think that the actual birth date of the historical figure of Jesus is highly irrelevant to the celebration of the renewal of life that the season, myriad of holidays (to most non Christians, especially in history) and the essence of Jesus represents to many Christians. At this point, the season seems to be more about the reaffirmation of grace, charity and the interconnectedness of our struggle on this life, rather than any single religious connotation. After all, this holiday season is much older than any form of history that anyone in Jesus' time could have possibly been aware, out dating even the egyptian schools of ancient mysteries that Jesus is said to have studied. Of course, people are free to associate the holiday with the teachings of their faith(s), but those associations logically have little to do with reality and more to do with spirituality, a concept that is shared across denominations, faiths and cultures.

    That's the trees, the stars, the bells, the bread (and cookies), the hearth, the giving of gifts, the lights and everything all wrapped up in tens of thousands of years of billions of people trying to express their gratefulness for the new beginning afforded to them by the divine, or nature or the universe, or whatever. Those are pretty much all the same word anyways, in many schools of philosophy. Regardless of what beliefs anyone attaches to their celebration, I sincerely wish them a pleasant holiday season.

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    Thanked by 2:
    msndrstood and Fairclough like this.
  13. Thread Author  Thread Author    #13  

    Default Re: Christmas

    And I have managed to turn Jesus into a real discussion

    I love doing this. Good reply Matt! I'll reply once I finish this round on this competition

    - Android Central App. N'oublions jamais l'Australie, Villers-Bretonneux. Prepare for January 26.
    » Tom Fairclough «
    » Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae «
    » I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune «
    Thanked by:
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  14. #14  

    Default Re: Christmas

    I like the premise of Christmas "Good will to all", (even though I consider myself agnostic) but what generally turns me off about the season is how hypocritical we are with reference to the season's original meaning. We have people trampling over each other to save a few bucks on a big screen TV, then we have certain news organizations that use the season to alienate those with differing belief systems. Both tend to go hand in hand with the season and are just a few examples of the inhumanity that the season tends to usher in each year. Sometimes it makes me wonder if Jesus was everything Christianity teaches (son of God, etc), how he would feel about how the season is celebrated in mostly his honor (mostly, because not everyone is of the same belief system).
    msndrstood and Fairclough like this.
  15. #15  

    Default Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    For the last 1600-1700 years the 25th of December has been used by many Christians to celebrate the birth of Jesus, but it wasn't until very recently that anyone tried connecting the festival with his actual birth. I don't think that anyone hardly anyone who's studied theology thinks that Yeshua (we're none of us probably Greek) was born on December 25th anymore, especially of year 0 or year 1 or whatever.

    The "Church" moved away from that premise a long time ago and throughout the ages has adjusted when precisely they think the birth sequence could have taken place, but putting it in the context of other historical figures is a mistake that they've also moved away from. Some of the dating methods are forced, while others are completely made up (the Census) and if the world's most renowned theologians and classical historical scholars are unwilling to even define a position, let alone come to consensus, I think any of us trying to assert one date over another would be at best misguided or delusional as to the relevance of sources being used.

    As of about 200 C.E. the closest scholars had come was to put it around May 20th (of our calendar), however by the 4th century most traditions used December 25th or January 6th as dates to celebrate the birth (not the same thing as declaring it's his birthday). The primary reasoning for the 25th as the celebration, is in fact the solstice. It has some very nice and elegant astrological correlations with the nativity story, including the Three Kings (stars in Orion's belt that point at the Sirius (The Star in the East) on December 24th), while these 4 stars align and point at the sunrise on December 25th. Likewise, there is a correlation between the nativity story with "Bethlehem", which translates in Hebrew and Aramaic to "House of Bread". House of Bread is also another name for Virgo, or "the virgin", which is applied metaphorically to Mary. The entire life of Jesus, as well as the lives of his family and followers, can be expressed astrologically and indeed, these connections are exploited both by theists and those trying to debunk gospels alike, as proof for both causes. The reality is probably closer to the middle, in that the retelling of stories evolved over time to include more followers of different belief structures being invited to join Christianity, rather than anything sinister.

    Celebrating the birth of the Son of God (and the birth of the Sun) has happened near what we think of as December 24th/25th for thousands of years longer than there have been Christians and aligning the Christian celebration of the birth of the Son of God to the existing celebrations was probably much easier then trying to convince everyone to abandon their thousand year old traditions in favor of a new upstart religion.

    Consider one of the oldest signs in all language:



    The oldest known examples of this symbol are carved in stone by people who we know next to nothing about. The symbol was used in Sumerian carvings dated to between 6,000 and 15,000 years old, built in Marble as early as 4,000 years ago, used in architecture around 3500 years ago, used on coins across what's now Europe and the Middle East with examples around 900 BC and 500 BC, etc. The adoption of this symbol by Christianity is relatively new, though the most recognized today. The example above is the zodiac cross, meant to represent the earth and/or sun and the 12 primary constellations. The Cross is also the earliest known depiction of the concept of the Tree of Life concept, in ancient Asia, ancient Persia, Ancient Egypt and just about every culture in between the ancient world and our modern language of symbols.

    I think that the actual birth date of the historical figure of Jesus is highly irrelevant to the celebration of the renewal of life that the season, myriad of holidays (to most non Christians, especially in history) and the essence of Jesus represents to many Christians. At this point, the season seems to be more about the reaffirmation of grace, charity and the interconnectedness of our struggle on this life, rather than any single religious connotation. After all, this holiday season is much older than any form of history that anyone in Jesus' time could have possibly been aware, out dating even the egyptian schools of ancient mysteries that Jesus is said to have studied. Of course, people are free to associate the holiday with the teachings of their faith(s), but those associations logically have little to do with reality and more to do with spirituality, a concept that is shared across denominations, faiths and cultures.

    That's the trees, the stars, the bells, the bread (and cookies), the hearth, the giving of gifts, the lights and everything all wrapped up in tens of thousands of years of billions of people trying to express their gratefulness for the new beginning afforded to them by the divine, or nature or the universe, or whatever. Those are pretty much all the same word anyways, in many schools of philosophy. Regardless of what beliefs anyone attaches to their celebration, I sincerely wish them a pleasant holiday season.
    Let me put on my tin foil hat and break it down even further. It was moved to December 25th so that retailers could get rid of old inventory before the new year. Also, Jewish people wondered what it would be like to have a day at the movies where no one else bothered them during the movie.... Christmas-tinfoil.gif
  16. #16  
    alexlam24's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christmas

    I just like Christmas because gifts and family

    Sent from HTC Note Ultra Pro on T-Mobile
  17. Thread Author  Thread Author    #17  

    Default Re: Christmas

    Matt I quiet enjoyed your post as it went through the history of the zodiac cross which is clearly the basis of the Celtic. Also how you went through non tangible side of Christmas e.g. the reaffirmation of grace, reflection and spirituality.
    I have too heard the date may 20th (some even suggest between the 4th and 9th) thrown around, in particular by a Doctor of Theology at my former school. Although his justification was similar to the moving due to the stars as well and that it ‘fitted’ in nicely with the free spot in the church’s calendar avoiding conflict of events. (side note; he said while writing a thesis a new Zealander was writing a thesis on what type of tree adam and eve really ate from – people would do some interesting study in their faith.)

    For the year of birth of Jesus "The calculation of the beginning of our calendar – based on the birth of Jesus – was made by Dionysius Exiguus, who made a mistake in his calculations by several years” (Pope Benedict XVI) There is no hard evidence to suggest how the Exiguus calculation (from 525 AD) has come about besides the belief that is founded on a date between start of his ministry and the when Jesus baptised in the reign of the emperor Tiberius. The historically accurate year is believed to fall between 7BC and 4BC – Largely due to all which is stated in the Bible he was born during the reign of Herod the Great who died sometime around 4BC.
    » Tom Fairclough «
    » Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae «
    » I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune «
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  18. #18  
    JW4VZW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by alexlam24 View Post
    I just like Christmas because gifts and family

    Sent from HTC Note Ultra Pro on T-Mobile
    Family is my favorite part of Christmas. I have family stationed around the world and we usually are only able to get together at Christmas time.
    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on Verizon Wireless, America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuse any errors.
  19. #19  
    alexlam24's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christmas

    Merry Christmas to those over the pond! As for those in the English speaking countries, I'll talk to yous tomorrow with another post!

    Sent from HTC Note Ultra Pro on T-Mobile
  20. #20  
    likeag8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JW4VZW View Post
    I have family stationed around the world
    i am in the same boat my friend.
  21. Thread Author  Thread Author    #21  

    Default Re: Christmas

    +1 on that but more around Australia

    - Android Central App. N'oublions jamais l'Australie, Villers-Bretonneux. Prepare for January 26.
    » Tom Fairclough «
    » Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae «
    » I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune «
  22. #22  
    likeag8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairclough View Post
    +1 on that but more around Australia

    - Android Central App. N'oublions jamais l'Australie, Villers-Bretonneux. Prepare for January 26.
    i always wanted to go, i hear it is a beautiful country. what part are you from?

    Sent from my HTC One
  23. Thread Author  Thread Author    #23  

    Default Re: Christmas

    I am from Perth, Western Australia.

    - Android Central App. N'oublions jamais l'Australie, Villers-Bretonneux. Prepare for January 26.
    » Tom Fairclough «
    » Credo faber est quisque fortunae suae «
    » I believe every man is the artisan of his own fortune «
  24. #24  

    Default Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by jdbii View Post
    Happy Holidays AC! I hope you and yours can get together and share joy, happiness, love, and find a Moto X (or two) under your tree.
    I found a Moto X under the tree. Course I put it there myself.

    Whatever the reasons for it's existence I really like Christmas. The lights and decor, the family get togethers, the joy of surprising loved ones with a special gift...I love it all.

    Posted via Android Central App
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