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    Default Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    ....and here's our Christmas present to you, your extended unemployment benefits are cutoff, signed the 113th Congress. The EUC (Emergency Unemployment Compensation) was started by George Bush. He started the program because the economy was tanked and people we not able to find a new job in 26 weeks.

    I have 4 families by me that are going to be hurting bad shortly. Two of the families are already talking about selling their house. All 4 of the families are college educated and had decent paying professional white collar jobs, accounting, maketing...etc...None of them are lazy and none of them want to stay on unemployment. One of them got a part-time job at Sam's Club, but he knows it going to end shortly. Another got a temporary job at a cardboard factory making slightly above minimum wage.

    Are people becoming addicted and lazy to $300 a week (average)? That's what the 113th Congress wants you to believe.

  2. #2  
    msndrstood's Avatar

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    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    I'd like to see a family of 4 or even a single person live on $300 a week. This atmosphere of 'if you don't have a job, you're lazy' is ridiculous to me. How about during the height of the recession when an employer had a job opening, they added the line 'unemployed need not apply'? And to add insult to injury, not one person in power did anything about that discrimination. As long as' I'm Ok, I don't care what happens to you, you deserve whatever does happen because you're _______' fill in whatever derogatory statement you've heard.

    People are just mean and self centered, now more than ever.


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  3. #3  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    After working full time I was granted $130 a week. Try making that work in NY! Being on unemployment is terrible and they really do not pay anyone enough to get by. I've seen many ignorant postings on Facebook and Twitter, but having personally relied on UI, most seem misinformed.

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  4. #4  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Where this whole thing comes from, if I am thinking about this correctly, is Welfare abuse. You know, the classic case of a woman living in a ghetto area who keeps getting pregnant so she can maintain and increase her welfare check.

    The problem is that *that* is being confused with UNEMPLOYMENT, and the heck of it is that the people out there are just GOING ALONG WITH THIS.

    The last real regular permanent job I had was in 2008. I lost that job, and other than for a period of time when I had personal family business to attend to, I have had one full-time job last for 10 months, another for 3 months, and the rest of the time has been filled with either being unemployed altogether, or having a part-time job where I have made anything from minimum wage (I haven't worked for minimum wage in so long I can't remember!) to $8.50 an hour. And as for "if you're unemployed, you're just lazy/waste of skin/etc.", well...

    Since 2008, the few places I've managed to get in with (for whatever period of time we're talking about here, mostly just a few months at a time) notwithstanding, I've probably applied to... I dunno... easily 1000 different job listings... maybe more, and I can tell you that the SINGLE MOST COMMON RESPONSE to a job application is...

    wait for it...

    NOT A GOSH-DARN THING WHATSOEVER.

    Not a yes, not a no. Just nothing at all.

    We already know that real unemployment in this country is a staggering percentage. It's probably pretty far north of 25%, might even be as high as 37% or more. And the more unemployed and/or underemployed people there are in this economy, the worse everything becomes because that's just fewer sales dollars coming in to support fewer and fewer hours and fewer and fewer jobs.

    It gets me when I hear anyone say that things are getting better or are leveling off, or whatever term you want to use. From where I sit, the view is DREADFUL, and I'm not just talking about my own personal circumstances. Yet it seems like there is this "grand conspiracy" (I'm using the term somewhat euphemistically) by the Government and Corporate America to try and, for lack of a better way of putting it, "pretend our way" out of this calamity we're in.

    How can companies say, with a straight face, that the economy is coming back and they're having better years, when they can't justify hiring all that many people, or hiring them as full-time associates?

    Through a local temp agency, I am now in the process of being hired by a major retailer (won't mention names, but you've all shopped there) and they no longer hire full-time hourly non-management associates. Everyone is part-time, even though often they are being given enough hours to qualify for many states' definitions of full-time associates. And they're not the only place, before you just go singling them out for criticism. It's like this ALL OVER. It isn't healthy, and it isn't normal. And on some level, we've all gotta realize that this just can't go on forever. Our economy can't sustain this sort of crap, and neither can the U.S.
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  5. #5  
    Serial Fordicator's Avatar

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    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    If you can't live off of 300 a week, what difference does it make if they cut you off and you are forced to work? There is no law stating you can't work more than one job or more than 40 hours a week. Now, I get there are some people in a tight spot, but not all of them.

    Employers have to pay UE benefits.

    I've said this before, and I'll keep saying it, I can find anyone a job, it may not be a job they want, but sometimes you have to do what you can until you get the job you want. I work construction and they are afraid to fire anyone saying its too hard to try to find anyone. A lot of the attitude is "I'm too good to work a blue collar job or at McDonald's"

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  6. #6  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Hey Serial Fordicator:

    I agree with what you've said, but only up to a point. Mostly the attitude you describe applies to one of two groups:

    1. The very immature (usually kids or disillusioned college grads); or
    2. The very, very lazy.

    The rest of us who are unemployed would practically KILL for a job. The problem isn't so much that we won't accept just anything -- although how is it a crime to not want to dig ditches, so to speak? -- rather, the biggest problem is not being able to get employers to pay attention to you or respond.

    I won't repeat it, but in my above post, let's say I've easily applied to between 1000 and 1200 jobs between 2008 and today. You want to know how many of them I have gotten ANY kind of response from (not counting automatic "We got your application" responses)? Maybe 10 or 15. And of those, maybe four or five have resulted in an interview.

    So what the FRACK is one supposed to make out of that? I have heard a number of people offer advice similar to what you have, and all it does is just make me angry because it's kind of like I'm being scolded or held accountable for things completely outside my responsibility.

    EDIT: Corrected grammar of last sentence, and fixed it so it wasn't written like a personal attack. (Humblest apologies for the original version.)
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  7. #7  
    Serial Fordicator's Avatar

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    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Mike 2145 View Post
    Hey Serial Fordicator:

    I agree with what you've said, but only up to a point. Mostly the attitude you describe applies to one of two groups:

    1. The very immature (usually kids or disillusioned college grads); or
    2. The very, very lazy.

    The rest of us who are unemployed would practically KILL for a job. The problem isn't so much that we won't accept just anything -- although how is it a crime to not want to dig ditches, so to speak? -- rather, the biggest problem is not being able to get employers to pay attention to you or respond.

    I won't repeat it, but in my above post, let's say I've easily applied to between 1000 and 1200 jobs between 2008 and today. You want to know how many of them I have gotten ANY kind of response from (not counting automatic "We got your application" responses)? Maybe 10 or 15. And of those, maybe four or five have resulted in an interview.

    So what the FRACK are you supposed to make out of that? You can't go around painting us all with the "we're not willing to settle" paint brush. That's crap.
    I'm sorry, but if I couldn't find a job that I wanted in 6 months, especially 2 years, I would find something. Even of it were to dig ditches. You basically just admitted you are too good to dig ditches, but not too good to take money from your old employer.

    And BTW, I also said there are a few exceptions to the rule, but I'm guessing you are truly not one of them. You are on an android site. You can afford to have a smartphone and Internet. I'm sorry if my heart doesn't go out to you because you couldn't find the exact job you wanted since 2008.

    I'm not trying to be an *** either, just stating the way it looks.

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  8. #8  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Sorry, I really don't know how to respond to that. Personal experience has demonstrated a reality that is completely the opposite of what you said.

    Yes, you're right. I'm better than some kinds of jobs out there. That isn't a crime. However, the kinds of jobs I've excluded from applying to are ones I'm either not physically capable of doing, or are so far outside my competence / require certifications/degrees/licenses/etc. that I don't have, that they really don't count. Example: I have one class to go before obtaining my AA. Obviously I am not going to apply for a job at a hospital as a brain surgeon. So, does that mean I erred by not applying for such a position?

    It's also not a matter of not finding "the job I wanted". It's a matter of barely being able to find ANYTHING. PERIOD. What should I do, go into Lowe's with a gun and demand they hire me?
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  9. #9  
    Serial Fordicator's Avatar

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    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Mike 2145 View Post
    Sorry, I really don't know how to respond to that. Personal experience has demonstrated a reality that is completely the opposite of what you said.

    Yes, you're right. I'm better than some kinds of jobs out there. That isn't a crime.
    I understand there are some things a person cannot do or is not qualified for. Its no crime, but you also cannot complain if they take UE benefits away from you either.


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  10. #10  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    I understand there are some things a person cannot do or is not qualified for. Its no crime, but you also cannot complain if they take UE benefits away from you either.
    Oh! Ok. Now I see what I think you were referring to. Sorry.

    My comments above have nothing to do with UE benefits. I've long since been through that debacle, and haven't had them in years. Well, ok, technically I've become eligible again like twice, but I never re-applied for them. I'm only talking about being able to get a job.

    Of course, I suppose one could make the (completely unrelated to the discussion above, or this thread in general) argument that because of the extreme mismanagement of our economy and so forth that the Government owes us for allowing the circumstances to come about (malfeasance on the part of employees not included, of course) wherein we lost our jobs due to the failing economy. Not sure if you agree with that -- not even sure that I agree with that -- but it could be an interesting argument.
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  11. #11  
    Serial Fordicator's Avatar

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    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Mike 2145 View Post
    Oh! Ok. Now I see what I think you were referring to. Sorry.

    My comments above have nothing to do with UE benefits. I've long since been through that debacle, and haven't had them in years. Well, ok, technically I've become eligible again like twice, but I never re-applied for them. I'm only talking about being able to get a job.

    Of course, I suppose one could make the (completely unrelated to the discussion above, or this thread in general) argument that because of the extreme mismanagement of our economy and so forth that the Government owes us for allowing the circumstances to come about (malfeasance on the part of employees not included, of course) wherein we lost our jobs due to the failing economy. Not sure if you agree with that -- not even sure that I agree with that -- but it could be an interesting argument.
    The only problem with that is your old employer pays you UE benefits. It will only make more businesses go belly up lol

    Oh, and apologies on my side, I guess I could have been more clear. I have absolutely no problems with anyone not working if they can afford it, or are not a burden on other people. :-)

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  12. #12  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    I don't know exactly how true this is, but I'm thinking it may be with how many "I've filled out hundreds of applications and not heard one reply" stories I've been seeing... I've heard employers have changed tactics in hiring practices. They get so flooded with applications nowadays that going that route is hard for them to go through and properly evaluate. Unless you have something that really makes you stand out on your resumé, you can pretty much forget being given a second glance. The new tactic for many employers hiring permanent, career type positions are using networking to screen applicants. Basically, you need to know someone working there to go to HR and be like, "Hey, I knew this one person who's a super awesome worker" for you.

    So as a job seeker, the suggestion is to talk with people you know to see if they can help get you in some place. Even if you only know them on a tertiary level, like other parents on your kid's baseball team or whatever. I know this will likely work for me, if/when I want to make a jump into a different job. I know someone on a very distant level that is willing to put a good word in for me if I want to go to his company and would almost double my current income. The only real hesitation is I have a kid on the way and my current job would give me a better chance to stay local to be there for the birth.
  13. #13  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    The sad part about some of the jobs being offered out there are how little they pay for how much they expect from their candidates. I was contacted recently about a position as an IT consultant. The position paid a paltry $25,000/yr. and they wanted several certifications, and the kicker is that they wanted someone that was fluent in Japanese. Now I could do as someone suggested here, get into more debt to learn how to speak Japanese and take a low paying job, but all that does is it gives the employer an advantage when they go hire someone else. If as a worker you take whatever salary is offered, all it means is that you don't value your talents and are willing to sell yourself short for the sake of having a job.

    The reason the GOP is ok with stripping away UE benefits is because they think it will force people to take lower paying wages and will mean cheaper labor costs for businesses. The only problem is that many of these companies don't even pay a living wage so while an employer can pay someone minimum wage, that employee is most likely going to sign up for government assistance of another form, food stamps most likely.

    Thus, to me UE is a hedge against some of these low paying jobs. While some of the younger more naive crowd doesn't understand is that if you have a million people that used to average $40K-$60K a year, force them to take $15K-$25K a year jobs, that erosion of salary will have long term ramifications. Tax revenues will go down despite the fact that government assistance claims will go up with more people applying for government programs to offset their losses. With lower salaries you'll see a shift in spending. Companies will thus continue to shed workforce in an attempt to stay ahead of the waning demand. While those with higher paying jobs will initially be insulated, eventually there will be someone above your pay grade that feels they need a bigger bonus next year and you will become a casualty of that person's bonus.

    I never understood why so many people are so set against the middle class, especially when you consider that this country was at its best when it had a strong middle class. My guess is that they're not aware that their viewpoints are harmful to the middle class. I guess it's true what they say about the best puppeteers not having to use strings.
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  14. #14  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Mike 2145 View Post
    Example: I have one class to go before obtaining my AA.
    I don't see why anyone would want to be an Anonymous Alcoholic.......if you're going to drink, do so with pride and visibility!


    All kidding aside, have you gone to your local school/university's student aid and see if you can apply for any grant money to finish your degree? Although, I will say this, depending on what field you're in, a degree isn't as valued as a certification. If you're in the IT industry your best bet is to get a Cisco or Java certification. One thing that many people tend to overlook when they're looking for a job is networking. School (a university, trade school, etc) is a good place to expand your network. I know that sometimes when going through long stretches of unemployment that isolation will sometimes set in (hence the reason I won't chastise you for having your smartphone nor for visiting this forum). Remember to keep all your networking lines opened. Sometimes that's your best resource for finding new opportunities.
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  15. #15  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    The reason the GOP is ok with stripping away UE benefits is because they think it will force people to take lower paying wages and will mean cheaper labor costs for businesses. The only problem is that many of these companies don't even pay a living wage so while an employer can pay someone minimum wage, that employee is most likely going to sign up for government assistance of another form, food stamps most likely.

    Thus, to me UE is a hedge against some of these low paying jobs. While some of the younger more naive crowd doesn't understand is that if you have a million people that used to average $40K-$60K a year, force them to take $15K-$25K a year jobs, that erosion of salary will have long term ramifications. Tax revenues will go down despite the fact that government assistance claims will go up with more people applying for government programs to offset their losses.
    Just out of curiosity, which do you think is better for the individual and the country? Staying on UE, meaning taking the most in government assistance, or taking a lower paying job that lets you take less assistance while still putting at least a little back into the tax base. Agreed neither is a good situation, and of course doing either doesn't preclude you from seeking better paying jobs or advancing in the one you have.


    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    One thing that many people tend to overlook when they're looking for a job is networking. School (a university, trade school, etc) is a good place to expand your network. I know that sometimes when going through long stretches of unemployment that isolation will sometimes set in (hence the reason I won't chastise you for having your smartphone nor for visiting this forum). Remember to keep all your networking lines opened. Sometimes that's your best resource for finding new opportunities.
    Hey, that's essentially what I said earlier!
  16. #16  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Just out of curiosity, which do you think is better for the individual and the country? Staying on UE, meaning taking the most in government assistance, or taking a lower paying job that lets you take less assistance while still putting at least a little back into the tax base. Agreed neither is a good situation, and of course doing either doesn't preclude you from seeking better paying jobs or advancing in the one you have.
    The immediate benefit of taking a lower paying job goes towards the government (even though Unemployment insurance is also funded by the employee and the employer). Long term, it doesn't benefit either. To give you an example, back when the .com crash of 2K happened, I used to be an Engineer for a semiconductor company. I took a position in the IT field in hopes that I could get back into the semiconductor industry at a later date. When I finally tried to get back into the field, I was told by prospective employers that my semiconductor skills were no longer relevant and thus I became unqualified. Now my skills would've become obsolete if I was on unemployment for an extended period of time, but jumping on the first thing I could find didn't help me either. There's nothing wrong with people holding out for a living wage. Personally, I'd like to see more people demand a living wage which in turn means more incomes that can be taxed by our government and hopefully will translate to a better infrastructure. If you look at some of the major cities that are close to financial ruin it's because they don't have the tax revenues they once had when people were making decent wages and could afford to pay their taxes.


    You have to see it from a "big picture" perspective. The reason the country is going into debt is because more people are in need of financial aid, because salaries are not what they used to be which also affects government revenue. Add to that the fact that we have some people that think we need to cut taxes on the wealthiest. Some politicians have already stated that they want to whittle government down to a size where it can be drowned in a bathtub. To what end? I can see corporate America wanting less government across the board. I can't imagine why individual citizens would want a government so small that it can be managed by corporations more than it is now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Hey, that's essentially what I said earlier!

    I took out the nepotistic parts....
  17. #17  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    I'm sure you've seen enough of my recent posts to know not only that I look at the big picture and see government and corporations (though mostly government) as the problems, but that am opposite you on what to do about it. Though, I will address the point you made wondering why people like me would want less government.

    When saying less government, perhaps we should be more clear that we aren't advocating near anarchy. Yes, there's many laws, rules, and taxes that should be done away with in general, but we also believe that much of what the Federal government is doing is outside its purpose and should have those powers transferred back to the states. The idea that "government is too big" is aimed mostly at the Feds (and perhaps California :rolleyes: ) not simply any government in the States.

    And by simplifying the feds roles, it will actually limit the influence of big business and the wealthy on them. For example, by transferring more power to the states, companies based in one state wouldn't have influence on the laws affecting their competition in other states. Right now, a company in any state could lobby in D.C. to change things to their favor and affect every similar company in the nation.

    Or, we could keep doing what we've been doing for years, making more complicated laws federally to manage someone's idea of equality, expecting a miracle, only to keep making it easier for the rich to get richer and harder for the poor to get ahead. I think there's a word for that line of thinking...
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  18. #18  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    I'm sure you've seen enough of my recent posts to know not only that I look at the big picture and see government and corporations (though mostly government) as the problems, but that am opposite you on what to do about it. Though, I will address the point you made wondering why people like me would want less government.

    When saying less government, perhaps we should be more clear that we aren't advocating near anarchy. Yes, there's many laws, rules, and taxes that should be done away with in general, but we also believe that much of what the Federal government is doing is outside its purpose and should have those powers transferred back to the states. The idea that "government is too big" is aimed mostly at the Feds (and perhaps California :rolleyes: ) not simply any government in the States.

    And by simplifying the feds roles, it will actually limit the influence of big business and the wealthy on them. For example, by transferring more power to the states, companies based in one state wouldn't have influence on the laws affecting their competition in other states. Right now, a company in any state could lobby in D.C. to change things to their favor and affect every similar company in the nation.

    Or, we could keep doing what we've been doing for years, making more complicated laws federally to manage someone's idea of equality, expecting a miracle, only to keep making it easier for the rich to get richer and harder for the poor to get ahead. I think there's a word for that line of thinking...
    I live in a state where they want to do away with a lot of regulation (the state where our governor can't even remember the government agencies he wants to abolish) and give corporations free reign. This is the same state that recently had a massive non terroristic explosion (proper government oversight in place might've prevented the explosion), had a few natural disasters, and even had our governor protest when we didn't get the federal aid he applied for. Not to mention, we're one of the many red states that takes more money from the Federal government than we pay into it.

    If you look at China beyond the communist part, that's where I think some of the right wing policies would take us. Low wages (can't get much lower than what they are in China), unregulated industry (I understand their air eats like a meal), where only the vastly wealthy enjoy a good life, those all seem to be the cornerstone of the GOP's policy. I don't think giving corporations free reign on us or our country is good for the U.S. in the long run.
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  19. #19  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Giving corporations a "free reign," is a pretty loaded statement that could mean a lot of things. Care to get more specific?
  20. #20  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Giving corporations a "free reign," is a pretty loaded statement that could mean a lot of things. Care to get more specific?
    Well lets see, we loosened banking regulations and the banks took us to task in '08. We didn't have effective regulation for the oil industry when BP decided to have its little Gulf Coast spill. We also have a handful of prescription pills that needed to be pulled off of the market because they were causing more harm than good. In Texas we're noticing a marked increase in earthquakes ever since fracking was made legal. To give you an idea, before Fracking was widespread in my area we hadn't seen more than a handful in the past 100 years. We've seen more in the past 3 years than we'd seen in the previous 150 years before fracking. Now when I say "free reign", I'm using hyperbole, but considering that corporations are becoming less and less responsible with their actions, how much regulation do you think can be safely stripped away? I'll agree that not all regulation is good regulation, but I'd rather err on the side that ensures my meat is 99.9% free of E. Coli than 89.9% free of E. Coli just to make sure some large faceless company's CEO can buy a bigger yacht.
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  21. #21  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    TXGTOU: *hic!* Yesh, I abso-*hic*-abso-*hic*- I really agree with ya pal!

    *hic!*

    Seriously, Mooncatt, TXGTOU, and Serial Fordicator, my plans are kind of taking me in a bit of a different direction; however, it is absolutely critical to seek alternative methods to get management's attention.

    I just spent nearly two months as a temp, working with my own normal sense of proper work ethic, and along with five others, we were hired on that basis. Not that this particular retailer is where I *want* to be, but any port in a storm, right? Yet, I've applied to this place for several years, and it took them seeing me perform before they would consider going through the hiring process.

    Anyhow, and this is somewhat directed at TXGTOU because of asking about the AA, in the state of Florida, you need an AA to work as a substitute teacher. The county I live in pays $90/day for substitutes for 7 hours' work. My plan is get to where I can take the last required class, graduate and get my AA, and then become a sub. At that point, I will be loosely within the bounds of my industry of interest (teaching) and between that gig and others will work my way through school so I can be a Professor of English.

    Now you know more about a random stranger on the Internet than you ever wanted, but what the heck...
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  22. #22  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    Well lets see, we loosened banking regulations and the banks took us to task in '08. We didn't have effective regulation for the oil industry when BP decided to have its little Gulf Coast spill. We also have a handful of prescription pills that needed to be pulled off of the market because they were causing more harm than good. In Texas we're noticing a marked increase in earthquakes ever since fracking was made legal. To give you an idea, before Fracking was widespread in my area we hadn't seen more than a handful in the past 100 years. We've seen more in the past 3 years than we'd seen in the previous 150 years before fracking. Now when I say "free reign", I'm using hyperbole, but considering that corporations are becoming less and less responsible with their actions, how much regulation do you think can be safely stripped away? I'll agree that not all regulation is good regulation, but I'd rather err on the side that ensures my meat is 99.9% free of E. Coli than 89.9% free of E. Coli just to make sure some large faceless company's CEO can buy a bigger yacht.
    The banking situation was put in motion decades ago by government regulation pressuring them to make loans they new were bad. The BP thing probably could have been prevented, or at least the damage very reduced, if government regulation hadn't pushed the wells into such deep waters that are very risky. There's an argument to be made that the FDA shouldn't be part of the federal government, but it is and it's their duty to regulate drugs on the market right now. And I don't know enough about fraking to say one way or the other, but I've heard some people saying that, again, government regulations on regular drilling pushed the oil companies into these types of alternatives.

    So basically we're back to idea that it's the feds that are the cause of the problems. I agree that having some regulations for public safety are in order, but not to the current extent. I could give you some specifics based of my current industry, though, of even "safety" regulations that really aren't.

    (Edited a typo)
    Last edited by Mooncatt; 12-31-2013 at 03:33 PM.
  23. #23  

    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    The making situation was put in motion decades ago by government regulation pressuring them to make loans they new were bad. The BP thing probably could have been prevented, or at least the damage very reduced, if government regulation hadn't pushed the wells into such deep waters that are very risky. There's an argument to be made that the FDA shouldn't be part of the federal government, but it is and it's their duty to regulate drugs on the market right now. And I don't know enough about fraking to say one way or the other, but I've heard some people saying that, again, government regulations on regular drilling pushed the oil companies into these types of alternatives.

    So basically we're back to idea that it's the feds that are the cause of the problems. I agree that having some regulations for public safety are in order, but not to the current extent. I could give you some specifics based of my current industry, though, of even "safety" regulations that really aren't.
    I'm sure there's plenty of corruption as well. An inspector making small money is going to be easily manipulated by big businesses to look the other way. If the regulators would do their job then I'm willing to bet that we could lessen some overly restrictive regulations. One of the ones that's somewhat scary is with the trucking industry. The amount of inspection that goes into making sure the big 18-wheelers on the road are safe is next to nothing. Add to that the fact that the 18-wheelers that come into the country from other countries (Mexico for instance) that don't require inspection and it's just an accident waiting to happen. Safety should never be a casualty of lessened regulations regardless of what industry if only because accidents are going to happen even with the best regulation in place.
  24. #24  
    msndrstood's Avatar

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    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    As for the banking... Deregulation got us into the banking mess. Look at the 'creative' loans that were being made, those loans were being pushed on anyone and everyone who had a pulse. There was massive money to be made by bundling mortgages for resale. This wasn't standard practice prior to Deregulation.

    As for the BP issue, really? Have you seem a map of all the oil wells in the Gulf? The oil companies cried and boo hooed because the fields weren't being opened up for exploration. Don't forget 'drill baby, drill'. Oil companies are only going to drill where there is oil. There is oil in the deep sea bed. Why are oil companies drilling in the harshest conditions on earth at the North Pole? Because oil is there it is not because of regulations.

    Fracking? Again, the oil companies can make money, that's why they are there, not because of regulations. They are fracking in Russia, we don't regulate Russian land, so if regulations were the problem, then why are they fracking all over the world?

    Companies are regulated because otherwise they will run amuck. If they did the right thing, they wouldn't need to be regulated in the first place. If it wasn't in human nature to be greedy, then we wouldn't need a lot of things, like regulations.



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    Default Re: Get A Job You Lazy Bum!

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    One of the ones that's somewhat scary is with the trucking industry. The amount of inspection that goes into making sure the big 18-wheelers on the road are safe is next to nothing. Add to that the fact that the 18-wheelers that come into the country from other countries (Mexico for instance) that don't require inspection and it's just an accident waiting to happen.
    Let's talk trucking then since I have 8 years experience and counting, accident free, a mentor, and recently named one of the trainers of the month for my company. By and large, the industry is much safer than the media would suggest, but you're right not everyone is always inspected. For starters, every driver is required to inspect their own rig each day before driving, and it's more than simple kick the tires and light the fires. Then there are several pre-screening methods in place that helps the DOT focus more on bad carriers. In theory. One new one, known as CSA, ranks carriers based on inspections and violations, both good and bad, and compares them to similar sized companies. The problems there are some states are not reporting clean inspections and skewing the results, any accident goes against your score even if you're not at fault and receive no citations, and if you beat a ticket in court, it's near impossible to get it removed from your CSA and effectively makes the road side officer judge jury and executioner. Also worth noting it's a truck could roll right off the assembly line and into an inspection bay, and chances are a DOT officer will find something on it deserving an inspection violation. To their credit, the DOT has been cracking down on truck and bus drivers/companies lately after the high profile bus crashes involving mostly fly by night companies.

    On the Mexican side of things, I'm there with you. I've delivered near that boarder many times and the trucks down there are junk. Generally those are limited to 50 mile travel into the U.S. to transfer loads back and forth across the border. They did start a pilot program to allow them to run cross country. Not that I wholly agree with it, but for purposes of this discussion about safety, the trucks in that program are newer rigs that have to meet our safety standards. Nothing like what you see at the boarder, and participation has been dismal at best. Canadian truckers aren't an issue, as they have similar standards as us.

    For an example of big business using increased legislation that hurts small business under the guise of safety, let's look at how we log our hours (which is another mess all its own). The big business lobbying groups want to require electronic devices in every truck that is tied into the ECM, tracks movement via GPS, and requires off site backups. They claim this would prevent drivers from running over their hours and "level the playing field." Don't you just love that excuse? Lol

    Thing is, they don't lock your truck down when out of hours, they simply register a violation in the system and it's still up to a DOT officer finding it much like the paper logs we used to use. Plus, you can still cheat them because they only track movement and can't track other working time that's also counted in our day. We have to manually input that. So they are really no safer than paper logs, yet it also means you get a free pass from officers that don't bother checking electronic logs. I do think they are a great dispatching and management tool for bigger companies, but that's all they are. A tool. In full disclosure, my company uses them and I like the setup for dispatching purposes, but I can certainly say there's nothing about it that makes me a safer driver.

    Oh, and remember that thing about leveling the playing field? Electronic logging is expensive. For the small companies and one truck operations, there would be no benefit to them. Just massive costs for the equipment and monthly usage fees. The field was already level with everyone using paper logs or the option of electronic. But what the big companies have done is like showing up at a track meet with their feet tied together by their own choice and now demanding everyone else tie theirs. This "safety" issue is nothing more than an attempt to use regulation to limit competition from smaller, more efficient companies.
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