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    Default U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    This is hitting the news now. I think we need some big changes at the DEA:

    The U.S. government allowed the Mexican Sinaloa drug cartel to carry out its business unimpeded between 2000 and 2012 in exchange for information on rival cartels, an investigation by El Universal claims....
    DEA, Sinaloa Cartel in Secret Cooperation for Years | TIME.com
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    This is hitting the news now. I think we need some big changes at the DEA:



    DEA, Sinaloa Cartel in Secret Cooperation for Years | TIME.com
    Pretty bad stuff. I wonder if the DEA's charter includes operations on foreign soil. It is bad policy to negotiate with drug cartels because, in a manner of speaking, it legitimizes them. Deep moles or undercover agents (if legal) is one thing, but sitting across the table from them and negotiating while they are decapitating people with impunity is another. Wouldn't be surprised if the DEA agents also went to parties in villas with swimming pools and drank shots of tequila with them. The DEA agents can get corrupted by all the trappings of wealth and power. In the movie, "Scarface," imagine being invited to one of Tony Montana's parties.
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    I wouldn't be surprised if there was some major money involved, of course.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Has the DEA policy fueled this? Vermont governor: State has ‘full-blown heroin crisis’: Vermont governor: State has €˜full-blown heroin crisis€™ | Al Jazeera America
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    This is hitting the news now. I think we need some big changes at the DEA:



    DEA, Sinaloa Cartel in Secret Cooperation for Years | TIME.com
    Ho hum... not surprised...




    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    The violence we're seeing from the drug war reminds me about the violence that people claim was rampant during prohibition. The biggest blow (no pun intended) we can make on the violent cartels is by legalizing it, regulating it, taxing it, and growing it locally. Flood the market with so much supply that these cartels will go broke trying to compete. Then again, we have so many forces that are subsidized by the drug war, there's the penal system, law enforcement, rehab clinics. I really think our politicians are more concerned with what's best financially for a few people/industries versus what's best for people in general.
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    The violence we're seeing from the drug war reminds me about the violence that people claim was rampant during prohibition. The biggest blow (no pun intended) we can make on the violent cartels is by legalizing it, regulating it, taxing it, and growing it locally. Flood the market with so much supply that these cartels will go broke trying to compete. Then again, we have so many forces that are subsidized by the drug war, there's the penal system, law enforcement, rehab clinics. I really think our politicians are more concerned with what's best financially for a few people/industries versus what's best for people in general.
    Amen! Legalize it. The so-called war on drugs is the dumbest, stupidest, most futile, and by far the biggest waste of resources this country has ever waged.
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by msndrstood View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if there was some major money involved, of course.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Saw this on Reddit a few days ago; apparently they were doing it in return for information on rival cartels...

    Posted via Android Central App
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Has the DEA policy fueled this? Vermont governor: State has full-blown heroin crisis: Vermont governor: State has ‘full-blown heroin crisis’ | Al Jazeera America
    Heroin is tough since it is so dangerous, highly addictive, and incredibly bad for you. I mean, it really destroys people in a way that no other dog comes close to (imo). Ever see the movie "Trainspotting?"

    So to answer your question, it's hard for me to pin it on the DEA but I do believe we'd be better off if we treated it as a medical problem and not a criminal problem.
  10. #10  

    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    The violence we're seeing from the drug war reminds me about the violence that people claim was rampant during prohibition. The biggest blow (no pun intended) we can make on the violent cartels is by legalizing it, regulating it, taxing it, and growing it locally. Flood the market with so much supply that these cartels will go broke trying to compete. Then again, we have so many forces that are subsidized by the drug war, there's the penal system, law enforcement, rehab clinics. I really think our politicians are more concerned with what's best financially for a few people/industries versus what's best for people in general.
    You want to legalize and distribute heroin?
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    The violence we're seeing from the drug war reminds me about the violence that people claim was rampant during prohibition. The biggest blow (no pun intended) we can make on the violent cartels is by legalizing it, regulating it, taxing it, and growing it locally. Flood the market with so much supply that these cartels will go broke trying to compete. Then again, we have so many forces that are subsidized by the drug war, there's the penal system, law enforcement, rehab clinics. I really think our politicians are more concerned with what's best financially for a few people/industries versus what's best for people in general.
    I am convinced that what we are doing is not the right way, but opening the flood gates is not either. You could maybe argue that for marijuana, but not for harder drugs. Too addictive. Too destructive.



    Social view/acceptance is the key thing to get right on ALL substances. While the public view of alcohol is far from perfect, there are at least some social norms and stigmas to guide society such as only drinking in the evening, drinking and driving is bad, ect. Other substances do not have these sigmas and will take a lot of time, screw ups, and abuse for those to develop.

    For example, it is generally a bad sigma to drink alcohol in the morning. Especially if you are going to be doing something like going to work that day. However, most of the people that I have know that smoke marijuana regularly will smoke whenever. In the morning. In the afternoon. Before work. Before driving. Anytime. There is not a sigma that says anytime is more acceptable than any other.
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    You want to legalize and distribute heroin?
    I personally don't want to distribute it, nor do I want to use it, but considering what we're doing now, we're making it lucrative for violent criminals to sell it. If we devalue it enough then maybe we can put an end to some of this violence. When you consider some of the garbage that our government does say is ok for us to ingest (a certain West Virginia water source comes to mind as does a certain clown that pedals "hamburgers") then why do we care about some of these naturally occurring substances? Stuff like Heroin and some of the more potent drugs, I'm not sure those need to be made available, but from what I remember reading, Cocaine used to be given to slaves to make them more productive. I understand some Latin American countries use a form of it for headaches even. The war on drugs is a complete failure and I'd say it's a bigger failure than Vietnam.
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    Cocaine used to be given to slaves to make them more productive. I understand some Latin American countries use a form of it for headaches even.
    It even used to be in Cola.
    (Now it's only sugar)



    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    It even used to be in Cola.
    (Now it's only sugar)



    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
    It's not even real sugar

    Posted via Android Central App
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by UJ95x View Post
    It's not even real sugar

    Posted via Android Central App
    lol, you're absolutely right




    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by llamabreath View Post
    lol, you're absolutely right




    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
    I think we've done enough derailing lol

    Posted via Android Central App
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by UJ95x View Post
    It's not even real sugar

    Posted via Android Central App
    Speak for yourself, I know where to get the good stuff!! U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel-secret.gif

    U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel-coca-u00252bcola.jpg
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    Speak for yourself, I know where to get the good stuff!! Click image for larger version. 

Name:	secret.gif 
Views:	22 
Size:	2.9 KB 
ID:	100926

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	coca%u00252Bcola.jpg 
Views:	22 
Size:	27.4 KB 
ID:	100925
    Mexican coke, huh? That's the best
    Everyone go back to the cartel talk

    Posted via Android Central App
  19. #19  

    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Most crime in this country is drug-related, whether directly or indirectly. If we decriminalize all such criminalized substances, that would in itself decrease the costs because there would no longer need to be "risk" or "hazard" pay for manufacture or distribution. Moreover, as stated above, it could be regulated and, if so desired, taxed.

    Most drugs are fundamentally dirt-cheap to produce. If we could make them that cheap, it would solve several problems at once.

    It would remove the mystique and therefore a significant element of allure for people to try them.

    It would remove the incentive for them to be promoted the way they presently are, since one could (in principle) go to the local Walmart and buy a pound of coke.

    It would eliminate at least the majority -- if not in fact all -- drug-related crime because the costs would be so greatly reduced that you just wouldn't need that much money to buy it.

    It would eliminate much of the problem with the drug-using population because:

    Money presently directed towards waging the "war on drugs" could instead go to fund clinics and treatment centers and other things which would treat addiciton as the medical / psychological issue that it actually is; and

    Hard-core users would likely hit the lethal levels of consumption relatively quickly and thereby remove themselves from the general population.

    Maybe some of this sounds extreme (to at least some of you) and, of course, along with those on the take in this country to keep the present status quo, it seems like that's why what I've outlined above will never happen, and therefore this problem will never go away, even though it's just us continuing to foist this problem upon ourselves and simultaneously forcing the fight we're waging aginst ourselves, which among other things is both illogical and a waste of resources, most of them being human lives.

    C'est la vie...
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Mike 2145 View Post
    Hard-core users would likely hit the lethal levels of consumption relatively quickly and thereby remove themselves from the general population.
    Some might actually do okay. Without having to turn to crime to pay for their habit, many might actually be able to hold down jobs and be reasonably functional. There are a lot of high functioning alcoholics who have successful careers.
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by jdbii View Post
    Some might actually do okay. Without having to turn to crime to pay for their habit, many might actually be able to hold down jobs and be reasonably functional. There are a lot of high functioning alcoholics who have successful careers.
    Alcohol is one thing, cocaine is way different. I'd imagine people would still get fired or not get hired for doing said drug. Just because it's legal doesn't mean the employer has to like it

    Posted via Android Central App
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  22. #22  

    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Alcohol can kill through toxic levels. However, as a practical matter, it's probably easier to ingest toxic levels of "drugs" than alcohol.

    Mind you, I don't think, let's say, a million sudden cardiac arrest deaths across the U.S. in one night, or one week, or one month, or whatever, would be a particularly pleasant thing, assuming it would actually go that way, which I don't reasonably believe would be the case. I'm thinking it'd be more like, y'know, 5 here and 10 there and 20 or 30 somewhere else, etc.
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by UJ95x View Post
    Alcohol is one thing, cocaine is way different. I'd imagine people would still get fired or not get hired for doing said drug. Just because it's legal doesn't mean the employer has to like it

    Posted via Android Central App
    Of course. I shouldn't be mixing up hard-core user with high functioning alcoholics. My bad.
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    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Mike 2145 View Post
    Most crime in this country is drug-related, whether directly or indirectly. If we decriminalize all such criminalized substances, that would in itself decrease the costs because there would no longer need to be "risk" or "hazard" pay for manufacture or distribution. Moreover, as stated above, it could be regulated and, if so desired, taxed.

    Most drugs are fundamentally dirt-cheap to produce. If we could make them that cheap, it would solve several problems at once.

    It would remove the mystique and therefore a significant element of allure for people to try them.

    It would remove the incentive for them to be promoted the way they presently are, since one could (in principle) go to the local Walmart and buy a pound of coke.

    It would eliminate at least the majority -- if not in fact all -- drug-related crime because the costs would be so greatly reduced that you just wouldn't need that much money to buy it.

    It would eliminate much of the problem with the drug-using population because:

    Money presently directed towards waging the "war on drugs" could instead go to fund clinics and treatment centers and other things which would treat addiciton as the medical / psychological issue that it actually is; and

    Hard-core users would likely hit the lethal levels of consumption relatively quickly and thereby remove themselves from the general population.

    Maybe some of this sounds extreme (to at least some of you) and, of course, along with those on the take in this country to keep the present status quo, it seems like that's why what I've outlined above will never happen, and therefore this problem will never go away, even though it's just us continuing to foist this problem upon ourselves and simultaneously forcing the fight we're waging aginst ourselves, which among other things is both illogical and a waste of resources, most of them being human lives.

    C'est la vie...
    All the good of this takes place AFTER the acclimation period. During this period, you have an influx of people that try all these drugs for the first time. With that many people using substances that are largely dangerous and that the people using do not understand, there will be a huge fallout of terrible occurrences related to drug use. THEN the sigmas will be created and society as a whole will be able of operate with access to such drugs and the benefits you describe will be able to be realized. But only after.

    I am not saying this as an argument per say. Just that there would be large consequences that we should be prepared for if we ever legalized "everything".


    On a side note: A guy i work with immigrated here from Chile. He said that small amounts of any drug is legal there. That is was not too uncommon for a respectable citizen to be carrying around a gram or less of cocaine. The reason being is that the government, while they fight to stop the drug dealers, cartels, ect, they do not want to pay to lock up and feed every citizen that uses drugs. So they just let it go.
  25. #25  

    Default Re: U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel

    The day we legalize heroin and cocaine for public distribution and consumption, is the day you can kiss our civilization good bye.
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