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  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  

    Default Welfare reform.....

    I friend of mine who I went to high school with just had her 10th child. Which made me think of this. She is on welfare, food stamps, and Medi-Cal for all her children and husband (she also asks from time to time for help from all her friends). Her husband and the father of 9 of the kids doesn't really work, she is a CNA. Don't you think there should be some rules in place about accepting welfare and reproducing like gremlins? If it were up to me I would make a stipulation upon receiving welfare that no children be brought into this world because clearly you can't afford yourself. I don't want to sound cruel, but come on. Some how the right to reproduce supercedes the fact that in doing so we are all paying for it.
  2. #2  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    My replay to this as the normal crew screaming for welfare reform is also the same crew who scream for banning abortions, against having healthcare required to pay for birth control yet ok with it to pay for baby producing side (Viagra).
    They are all protect the unborn child but the 2nd the child is born it is screw them. They do not need any help, cut funding ect.

    Just going to point out that I say most of the people who scream for welfare reform are huge hypocrites.
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
    DEman19901 likes this.
  3. #3  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    The kind of welfare reform I'd like to see is all these companies that don't pay their employees a living wage, if your employee is having to rely on government subsidies, then you aren't being taxed enough. I wonder how many companies would try to pay their employee a LIVING wage if they knew they'd have to make this up via higher taxes to pay for these social services needed to keep people afloat that actually try to work for a living.
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    TomW093 likes this.
  4. #4  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    If your job is worth a "living wage," then it will pay it.

    For the topic at hand, I would like to see some of reform, but probably not the same as most people. I could see putting a cap on welfare benefits, but I also think the Fair Tax stuff I've been advocating would be the biggest reform of sorts that we could have. Draw businesses back to the U.S., put more people to work with better paying jobs, they keep all their paychecks, and have a real chance to get off welfare all together.
  5. #5  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Maybe look at the real American Welfare Queen? Right to Work and Unions
  6. #6  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    If your job is worth a "living wage," then it will pay it.
    You must think pro athletes should be paid more then. I mean the demand is there right? So what exactly is preventing these athletes from making the money that a free market should yield? Oh right, outside external forces manipulating prices.....

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2
    Thanked by 2:
    palandri and msndrstood like this.
  7. #7  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    You're talking about a whole different level, there because no one is arguing they should be paid more. But to answer anyway, I say they should be paid what the market will bare. I'm not a fan of salary caps. Either in sports, or the business world. While still mostly free, our markets in the U.S. are way too artificial. Mostly due to government regulation. But that's not what this thread is about.
  8. Thread Author  Thread Author    #8  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    The kind of welfare reform I'd like to see is all these companies that don't pay their employees a living wage, if your employee is having to rely on government subsidies, then you aren't being taxed enough. I wonder how many companies would try to pay their employee a LIVING wage if they knew they'd have to make this up via higher taxes to pay for these social services needed to keep people afloat that actually try to work for a living.

    Why don't we just pay everyone 75K a year, regardless of skill set and lets all forego college.
  9. #9  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    Why don't we just pay everyone 75K a year, regardless of skill set and lets all forego college.
    Or I can build you a straw man and you can do some kung-fu on it....




    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2
  10. #10  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    You're talking about a whole different level, there because no one is arguing they should be paid more. But to answer anyway, I say they should be paid what the market will bare. I'm not a fan of salary caps. Either in sports, or the business world. While still mostly free, our markets in the U.S. are way too artificial. Mostly due to government regulation. But that's not what this thread is about.
    So if we go back on topic then, are you only concerned with welfare that Fox News thinks is running rampant or corporate welfare as well? It's easy for people to scream "Welfare reform" as a veiled attempt to show misdirected contempt. But when it comes to corporate welfare, "Oh well government needs to help ease the burden on big business". Welfare is welfare is welfare...

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2
    DEman19901 and msndrstood like this.
  11. Thread Author  Thread Author    #11  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    So if we go back on topic then, are you only concerned with welfare that Fox News thinks is running rampant or corporate welfare as well? It's easy for people to scream "Welfare reform" as a veiled attempt to show misdirected contempt. But when it comes to corporate welfare, "Oh well government needs to help ease the burden on big business". Welfare is welfare is welfare...

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2

    Did you even read my OP? I'm talking about should there be stricter rules in place as to the conduct of those on welfare (like having 10 kids, 8 or which were conceived while accepting government assistance).
  12. Thread Author  Thread Author    #12  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    Or I can build you a straw man and you can do some kung-fu on it....




    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2
    Define a livable wage? What should that person be entitled to? Food, Rent, water, power, health insurance are all a given. How about unlimited calls and texts? 50mbps DL speeds? Do we give them HBO or not? I'm afraid if we don't give it to them that will be viewed as inhumane. How much disposable income should be built into a "livable wage" for entertainment and/or vices the person may have (booze, cigs, weed-something to consider if I have a business in Colorado).

    Are you in the boat with the McD employees that feel $15 an hour is the minimum? See growing up, those jobs weren't meant to be career choices, even though my guidance counselor in high school used them as such when he saw my mid-term grades in calculus and trig.
  13. #13  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    So if we go back on topic then, are you only concerned with welfare that Fox News thinks is running rampant or corporate welfare as well? It's easy for people to scream "Welfare reform" as a veiled attempt to show misdirected contempt. But when it comes to corporate welfare, "Oh well government needs to help ease the burden on big business". Welfare is welfare is welfare...

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2
    Well the OP was about welfare in terms of trying to help low/no income families. Btw, I've started leaning towards the idea of giving extra if it's a two parent household to help eliminate the more babies = more money for single moms mindset. The societal impacts could be worth it.

    For corporate welfare, I don't like subsidies. The government shouldn't be picking the winners and losers in business. While we're at it, let's get rid of things like the farm subsidies that the left tends to love. On the tax side of things, "Fair Tax now!"
  14. #14  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    Did you even read my OP? I'm talking about should there be stricter rules in place as to the conduct of those on welfare (like having 10 kids, 8 or which were conceived while accepting government assistance).
    I think he is on topic.
    He is pointing out that we have huge corporate welfare abuse. Walmart being one of the worse offenders.
    Another big offender is the oil companies getting huge tax breaks.
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
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  15. #15  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    I think he is on topic.
    I think the person that started this thread is the one to determine if we're on topic or not.
  16. #16  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    I think the person that started this thread is the one to determine if we're on topic or not.
    Just because you do not like the fact we moved off of the standard welfare attack of the right wing to point out business abuse welfare more so does not make it off topic.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
  17. Thread Author  Thread Author    #17  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    Just because you do not like the fact we moved off of the standard welfare attack of the right wing to point out business abuse welfare more so does not make it off topic.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

    insensitive, nm.
  18. #18  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    Define a livable wage? What should that person be entitled to? Food, Rent, water, power, health insurance are all a given. How about unlimited calls and texts? 50mbps DL speeds? Do we give them HBO or not? I'm afraid if we don't give it to them that will be viewed as inhumane. How much disposable income should be built into a "livable wage" for entertainment and/or vices the person may have (booze, cigs, weed-something to consider if I have a business in Colorado).

    Are you in the boat with the McD employees that feel $15 an hour is the minimum? See growing up, those jobs weren't meant to be career choices, even though my guidance counselor in high school used them as such when he saw my mid-term grades in calculus and trig.
    If a person works a solid 40 hours a week then why can't they afford the most basics of necessities? If someone works a solid 40 hours and still has to apply for welfare of any sort, then to me that indicates that there is something wrong with our society.
  19. Thread Author  Thread Author    #19  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    If a person works a solid 40 hours a week then why can't they afford the most basics of necessities? If someone works a solid 40 hours and still has to apply for welfare of any sort, then to me that indicates that there is something wrong with our society.

    What constitutes a basic necessity? By your definition if a 16 yr old works 40hrs a week as a bagger at a grocery store, he should make how much? $20/hr?

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
  20. #20  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    If a person works a solid 40 hours a week then why can't they afford the most basics of necessities? If someone works a solid 40 hours and still has to apply for welfare of any sort, then to me that indicates that there is something wrong with our society.
    That still doesn't define what a "livable wage" is. And do you honestly think every job is worth whatever that is at 40 hrs a week?
  21. Thread Author  Thread Author    #21  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    Just because you do not like the fact we moved off of the standard welfare attack of the right wing to point out business abuse welfare more so does not make it off topic.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

    Do you really think the left doesn't hand out the same welfare you claim the right is notorious for. Do you think a candidate could possibly raise the money necessary to be a viable candidate from people on food stamps? Have you not heard of the money the WH pissed away handing millions if not billions to Solindra?

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
  22. #22  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    What constitutes a basic necessity? By your definition if a 16 yr old works 40hrs a week as a bagger at a grocery store, he should make how much? $20/hr?

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    You think $20 an hour is enough to cover basic necessities? If that's the case then the minimum wages is way off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    That still doesn't define what a "livable wage" is. And do you honestly think every job is worth whatever that is at 40 hrs a week?
    So instead of people getting a wage that they can live on, you'd rather they get on welfare? You can't have it both ways. I'd rather they get paid a wage that is livable and doesn't require a hand out by the government to make ends meet. You can give them poor wages and take away government welfare, but then when crime spikes, you're not allowed to complain because with a policy that doesn't do anything but encourage people to steal, what exactly did you think would happen?
  23. #23  
    Darth Spock's Avatar

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    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Does anyone think it's weird that we went from a paradigm where almost everyone thought that one parent should be able to support their family comfortably with one job to where two people working full time, with overtime and sometimes multiple jobs can barely make ends meet?

    As technology advances and things become easier for mankind to accomplish, food, homes and necessary materials become cheaper to accumulate, distances take less time to traverse, etc.... shouldn't the opposite have happened? Why is it getting harder to get by, given the abundance of ability, rather than easier? Our retirement age is going up, rather than down, when we have (or logically ought to have) less demand for human intervention in most processes? When automation caused less demand for manual work, why did that cause an increase in unemployment, rather than just a logical decrease in the amount of hours required by each employee to maintain productivity? We're doing things exactly backwards and then wondering why it isn't working for most of the population.

    Numerically, it wasn't long ago that people expected the family to work between 62,400 and 83,200 hours over the course of their life for a median total, normalized for today's dollars, of between $1.25 and $1.7 million dollars in wages. Now the suggestion is that it should take 2-3 or even 5-6 times that number of hours, rather than 20-30% of those hours. Granted, technologically our standard of living has dramatically increased, but if your family is working 4x as hard for that increase, that seems fairly normal enough... until you really think about how much easier survival should have become.

    It's almost as if we're creating work in order to keep people busy, and not as a necessary function of the market/society. We clearly don't need the majority of jobs that are performed by humans to be performed by humans, which is why we pay so poorly for most of those positions... so why wouldn't we find a way to make those people actually useful?
  24. Thread Author  Thread Author    #24  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    You think $20 an hour is enough to cover basic necessities? If that's the case then the minimum wages is way off.



    So instead of people getting a wage that they can live on, you'd rather they get on welfare? You can't have it both ways. I'd rather they get paid a wage that is livable and doesn't require a hand out by the government to make ends meet. You can give them poor wages and take away government welfare, but then when crime spikes, you're not allowed to complain because with a policy that doesn't do anything but encourage people to steal, what exactly did you think would happen?

    I think welfare should be a temporary stop gap not a long term supplemental income strategy. I believe that people should be paid accordingly to their skill set because we don't live in a communist society. Making the most menial jobs pay 3 times what they should will surely entice people to accept those jobs because they are "good enough", with no incentive to strive for more. We can pay baggers $20/hr and cashiers $25/hr, but your grocery bill will double and then people will still be on food stamps because they can't afford $300 a week at the jewel.

    The issue I have is what constitutes a basic necessity? Because I have one patient a week who can't pay their copay while they clutch an $800 iPhone.

    Sent via my LG G Pad 8.3 GPE
  25. #25  

    Default Re: Welfare reform.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    You think $20 an hour is enough to cover basic necessities? If that's the case then the minimum wages is way off.



    So instead of people getting a wage that they can live on, you'd rather they get on welfare? You can't have it both ways. I'd rather they get paid a wage that is livable and doesn't require a hand out by the government to make ends meet. You can give them poor wages and take away government welfare, but then when crime spikes, you're not allowed to complain because with a policy that doesn't do anything but encourage people to steal, what exactly did you think would happen?
    You still haven't defined what exactly a living wage is.

    But my argument is of pure economic value as I mentioned in the union thread. Get emotional all you want about people not being paid your mythical wage, it doesn't change the fact that paying it when you don't get at least that much productivity out of it from that employee will run a business into the ground.

    Instead of complaining about how little people are paid and being pushed onto welfare and then about how evil CEO's are for no other reason than they are rich, why don't you advocate people buck up and work their way up the ladder. It's not that hard when willing to do the hard work. Half the problems with the workforce today is attitude of the workers themselves.
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