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    Default TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Here's something interesting:
    https://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sidesho...212301676.html

    Basically, TN has had a lottery funded "Hope" scholarship for several years now. This program would be an extension of that scholarship and would pay 100% tuition for high school grads that attend a community of tech school after graduating.

    I do not know how this would effect the existing Hope scholarship or what requirements it would have. The Hope scholarship requires a certain GPA.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    It's a great idea. 2 year Community Colleges help to lower the unemployment rate by keeping people out of the job market for 2 years. It could backfire on the Republican Tennessee legislature by producing more liberals and turning Tennessee into a blue state.
  3. #3  

    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    While I support what they are using the money for, lotteries have proven in the past to effectively be a tax on the poor. I don't know how it works now, but when I was younger, it was very common for people to sell food stamps to buy lottery tickets

    This is just the first link from a google search on the subject.
    18 Signs That The Lottery Is Preying On America's Poor
  4. #4  

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    Quote Originally Posted by toober View Post
    While I support what they are using the money for, lotteries have proven in the past to effectively be a tax on the poor. I don't know how it works now, but when I was younger, it was very common for people to sell food stamps to buy lottery tickets

    This is just the first link from a google search on the subject.
    18 Signs That The Lottery Is Preying On America's Poor
    Lol. So poor people want to get rich quick? I wonder why?


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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by A895 View Post
    Lol. So poor people want to get rich quick? I wonder why?
    Makes sense, doesn't it? You've got poor people throwing money away on lotto tickets, so why not throw money at people for college without showing any work for it. Read the source article linked in the yahoo one, and you'll see this plan has no requirements other than to graduate high school. No GPA ranking, no community service, no essays explaining your merits, not even a note from your mother saying you're a good kid. It's not that hard to graduate high school and college isn't for everyone. I wonder how much of that money will be waisted on students that just want to slack off because it's "free money."

    Glad I don't play the lotto and risk funding plans like this. Then again, who plays the lotto because they want to help education anyway? States only do that so they can say, "It's for the children!" while raking in millions into the general funds from the poor segments.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Makes sense, doesn't it? You've got poor people throwing money away on lotto tickets, so why not throw money at people for college without showing any work for it. Read the source article linked in the yahoo one, and you'll see this plan has no requirements other than to graduate high school. No GPA ranking, no community service, no essays explaining your merits, not even a note from your mother saying you're a good kid. It's not that hard to graduate high school and college isn't for everyone. I wonder how much of that money will be waisted on students that just want to slack off because it's "free money."

    Glad I don't play the lotto and risk funding plans like this. Then again, who plays the lotto because they want to help education anyway? States only do that so they can say, "It's for the children!" while raking in millions into the general funds from the poor segments.
    I do not know this, but I assume that there are the same requirements for this as the regular scholarship. Being gpa and act scores. If not, it is a stupid idea.

    As long as it is lotto funds and not blatantly wasteful, I am in no way against this. TN already has a great manufacturing base. With more technicians available, they can grow more easily. Now living in a state that does not have a lottery, I see that people will just drive to the surrounding states to play if they want to. Might as well make use of that money.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Makes sense, doesn't it? You've got poor people throwing money away on lotto tickets, so why not throw money at people for college without showing any work for it. Read the source article linked in the yahoo one, and you'll see this plan has no requirements other than to graduate high school. No GPA ranking, no community service, no essays explaining your merits, not even a note from your mother saying you're a good kid. It's not that hard to graduate high school and college isn't for everyone. I wonder how much of that money will be waisted on students that just want to slack off because it's "free money."

    Glad I don't play the lotto and risk funding plans like this. Then again, who plays the lotto because they want to help education anyway? States only do that so they can say, "It's for the children!" while raking in millions into the general funds from the poor segments.
    Read the source and all I see is they want to offer free college. Sounds similar to a program they had when I was in NY. If you graduated high school you at least was offered a scholarship at a local college. They want to increase college graduation rates in the bottom line.

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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    I do not know this, but I assume that there are the same requirements for this as the regular scholarship. Being gpa and act scores. If not, it is a stupid idea.

    As long as it is lotto funds and not blatantly wasteful, I am in no way against this. TN already has a great manufacturing base. With more technicians available, they can grow more easily. Now living in a state that does not have a lottery, I see that people will just drive to the surrounding states to play if they want to. Might as well make use of that money.
    I am sure you're right. There will be standards to meet and maintain like any other scholarship.

    I took some classes after I got out of the military on the GI Bill. It covered the tuition, but there are always a load (100+ dollars) of miscellaneous activity fees that you have to pay on top on the tuition, plus books and maybe housing cost depending on how close the college is.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Makes sense, doesn't it? You've got poor people throwing money away on lotto tickets, so why not throw money at people for college without showing any work for it. Read the source article linked in the yahoo one, and you'll see this plan has no requirements other than to graduate high school. No GPA ranking, no community service, no essays explaining your merits, not even a note from your mother saying you're a good kid. It's not that hard to graduate high school and college isn't for everyone. I wonder how much of that money will be waisted on students that just want to slack off because it's "free money."

    Glad I don't play the lotto and risk funding plans like this. Then again, who plays the lotto because they want to help education anyway? States only do that so they can say, "It's for the children!" while raking in millions into the general funds from the poor segments.
    I don't understand your stand on this.

    Here, the state is using gambling (lottery) money to do a good thing for the youth in their state and yet you berate them for giving it away to those perceived to be undeserving. What about all of the scholordhips that are given away across the country to high school kids every year? Don't you think these kids that are graduating high school in Tennessee are worthy? Where do you get that they will waste the opportunity?

    In PA, lottery money goes to fund services for seniors such as prescription drug coverage, rent rebates and funds the senior centers in the community. It's doing something that is lacking from the government, in Tennessee it's the same thing.

    I'll bet if it was some church doing it, it would be a different tune. If you don't play the lottery than what does it matter to you who gets the scholarships?

    This really bothers me.

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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    I do not know this, but I assume that there are the same requirements for this as the regular scholarship. Being gpa and act scores. If not, it is a stupid idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I am sure you're right. There will be standards to meet and maintain like any other scholarship.
    According to the original article Yahoo pulled from:

    http://www.dnj.com/viewart/20140405/...aise-questions
    Gov. Bill Haslams signature proposal this year, a program that would cover a full ride at two-year colleges for any high school graduate, appears on track to pass ...
    It then seems to emphasize this flaw with the last paragraph.

    Democratic U.S. Rep. Steve Cohen, who as a state lawmaker spearheaded the creation of the states lottery scholarships, has said the state should focus on rewarding the highest achieving students rather than raiding the scholarship funds surplus to create a new government program.
    Quote Originally Posted by msndrstood View Post
    I don't understand your stand on this.
    Like I said in my first post, states only do this sort of thing to persuade voters to allow the lottery. Only this one is worse because it isn't merit or skill based. Just imagine the opposition to lotteries if all the proceeds went to the states' general funds. The tax on the poor effect alone would likely kill off most of them if held to a vote. But again, they use the "it's for the children" excuse to pull the wool over the eyes of their citizens. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against gambling in general. Just leave it to casinos and the occasional charity and don't try to pass it off as a way of helping others. Heck, even many of the winners wind up worse than they were before because they don't know how to handle that much money.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    It's a good thing. No complaints. At least they are trying to do something to help these kids get jobs. I'm not going to argue over the methods of the lottery system.
    I'm sure you have a better idea.

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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    As I stated earlier, I have no problem with where they spend the money, but the way they get the money. It has long been held that l lotteries are a tax on the poor as they tend to spend money on it that should be spent on other things. That one dollar spent by a poor person is a much more substantial investment than a dollar spent by a wealthy person. With many people playing a set of numbers and buying multiple tickets, this could mean a missed meal for a poor child or even a family. I am all for finding new w ways to help people get the education they desire, but do not feel this is the way.

    I'm not sure if people will get the comparison, but it's like someone opening an adult book store next to a school and promising to invest a portion of the profits in a childhood literacy program. Just because the money goes to a good cause doesn't e exude the manner in which it was obtained.

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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    According to the original article Yahoo pulled from:

    http://www.dnj.com/viewart/20140405/...aise-questions


    It then seems to emphasize this flaw with the last paragraph.





    Like I said in my first post, states only do this sort of thing to persuade voters to allow the lottery. Only this one is worse because it isn't merit or skill based. Just imagine the opposition to lotteries if all the proceeds went to the states' general funds. The tax on the poor effect alone would likely kill off most of them if held to a vote. But again, they use the "it's for the children" excuse to pull the wool over the eyes of their citizens. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against gambling in general. Just leave it to casinos and the occasional charity and don't try to pass it off as a way of helping others. Heck, even many of the winners wind up worse than they were before because they don't know how to handle that much money.
    Ugh O. I found a hitch.

    " But U.S. Rep. Steve Cohen, D-Tenn., a former state senator who spearheaded the decades-long drive to get a state lottery for higher education, has lambasted Haslam's initiative. Current lottery-funded HOPE scholarships are awarded to students with at least a 3.0 average in high school or 21 ACT college entrance exam.

    The Tennessee Promise program has no such academic requirement. Cohen said the HOPE scholarships' value "has diminished as tuition has increasedand this plan will cut them even further. All future lottery revenue gains will flow to the Governors free-tuition, no-standards community college program, and the HOPE Scholarship will fade into irrelevance when it should be growing to match the rising costs of attending college."'

    http://m.timesfreepress.com/news/201...m-moves-senat/


    No academic requirements, which is blatantly stupid and making this seem like more of a pander attempt now.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by toober View Post
    As I stated earlier, I have no problem with where they spend the money, but the way they get the money. It has long been held that l lotteries are a tax on the poor as they tend to spend money on it that should be spent on other things. That one dollar spent by a poor person is a much more substantial investment than a dollar spent by a wealthy person. With many people playing a set of numbers and buying multiple tickets, this could mean a missed meal for a poor child or even a family. I am all for finding new w ways to help people get the education they desire, but do not feel this is the way.

    I'm not sure if people will get the comparison, but it's like someone opening an adult book store next to a school and promising to invest a portion of the profits in a childhood literacy program. Just because the money goes to a good cause doesn't e exude the manner in which it was obtained.

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    You talk like a person who has never actually struggled. I have growing up and let me lay something on you:

    Lottery tickets is not a tax on the poor. It seems that things like this is always seen that way by people who are not poor.


    Now we can argue semantics all day, but its not a tax on the poor. People play the lottery on the hopes of striking it big, and being able to "make it". A dollar a day for a lottery ticket is nothing compared to the cost of living, putting food on the tablet, and taking care of a family. A dollar a day....I mean *sigh*. Of course a person with more money values a dollar less than someone who is broke. But anyone rich or poor can find a dollar to hope that they make some free money. It's like..... I can't even explain how ridiculous a notion this is.

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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    Ugh O. I found a hitch.

    " But U.S. Rep. Steve Cohen, D-Tenn., a former state senator who spearheaded the decades-long drive to get a state lottery for higher education, has lambasted Haslam's initiative. Current lottery-funded HOPE scholarships are awarded to students with at least a 3.0 average in high school or 21 ACT college entrance exam.

    The Tennessee Promise program has no such academic requirement. Cohen said the HOPE scholarships' value "has diminished as tuition has increasedand this plan will cut them even further. All future lottery revenue gains will flow to the Governors free-tuition, no-standards community college program, and the HOPE Scholarship will fade into irrelevance when it should be growing to match the rising costs of attending college."'

    http://m.timesfreepress.com/news/201...m-moves-senat/


    No academic requirements, which is blatantly stupid and making this seem like more of a pander attempt now.
    Pandering to who?

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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    Ugh O. I found a hitch.

    " But U.S. Rep. Steve Cohen, D-Tenn., a former state senator who spearheaded the decades-long drive to get a state lottery for higher education, has lambasted Haslam's initiative. Current lottery-funded HOPE scholarships are awarded to students with at least a 3.0 average in high school or 21 ACT college entrance exam.

    The Tennessee Promise program has no such academic requirement. Cohen said the HOPE scholarships' value "has diminished as tuition has increased—and this plan will cut them even further. All future lottery revenue gains will flow to the Governor’s free-tuition, no-standards community college program, and the HOPE Scholarship will fade into irrelevance when it should be growing to match the rising costs of attending college."'

    Haslam's free community college program moves in Senate | Mobile TFP


    No academic requirements, which is blatantly stupid and making this seem like more of a pander attempt now.
    I see your point, but if they have the lottery funds so anyone with a high school diploma can try it, that seems ok to me. If they don't maintain a 2.0 (C) average they aren't going to continue funding them.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I see your point, but if they have the lottery funds so anyone with a high school diploma can try it, that seems ok to me. If they don't maintain a 2.0 (C) average they aren't going to continue funding them.
    As long as it is lottery funds, I do not have a problem with it. I just think it is stupid to no make it merit based. I foresee much of the funds being wasted. I guess it will take implementation to really tell though. I worry more about the future of the Hope scholarships.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    It seems the assumption here is if everyone who graduates is entitled to the scholarships that somehow poor kids aren't going to 'appreciate' it because they didn't 'work' for it. I propose the fact that they graduated high school, in and of itself, is enough reason to grant them a scholarship. If they drop out after the first semester, the money would go back into the fund. They aren't going to get the money as cash in hand for the two year college program. It doesn't work that way. They graduate, they deserve it.

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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by msndrstood View Post
    It seems the assumption here is if everyone who graduates is entitled to the scholarships that somehow poor kids aren't going to 'appreciate' it because they didn't 'work' for it. I propose the fact that they graduated high school, in and of itself, is enough reason to grant them a scholarship. If they drop out after the first semester, the money would go back into the fund. They aren't going to get the money as cash in hand for the two year college program. It doesn't work that way. They graduate, they deserve it.

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    The assumption has nothing to do with someone being "poor". Last time i checked, doing poorly academically was not exclusive to an income bracket. "Rich" kids flunk out all the time.

    Unless you are going to require that the income spent be returned, however long the students stay in the program will be wasted if they drop out. Adding merit requirements simply lowers the chance that the participants will drop out. They still could, but you play on the smart money.

    And you can graduate public high school by showing up these days. There is honestly no reason for anyone to not graduate under anything but extreme circumstances.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    The assumption has nothing to do with someone being "poor". Last time i checked, doing poorly academically was not exclusive to an income bracket. "Rich" kids flunk out all the time.

    Unless you are going to require that the income spent be returned, however long the students stay in the program will be wasted if they drop out. Adding merit requirements simply lowers the chance that the participants will drop out. They still could, but you play on the smart money.

    And you can graduate public high school by showing up these days. There is honestly no reason for anyone to not graduate under anything but extreme circumstances.
    Sorry, that thanks was in error, I was trying to hit the reply button.

    I don't know where you are at but in PA and MD you have to pass tests at the end of 12th grade in order to pass and graduate. There is no free pass around here.

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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by msndrstood View Post
    Sorry, that thanks was in error, I was trying to hit the reply button.

    I don't know where you are at but in PA and MD you have to pass tests at the end of 12th grade in order to pass and graduate. There is no free pass around here.

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    I graduated from a high school in TN.

    You had to pass tests in specific courses, but there was no exit exam or anything of the sort. I had taken and passed all the required tests by the end of my sophomore year. You of course have to pass classes to get all your credits, but the required courses are not known for their level of difficulty we will say. You were not there if you didn't pass.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    I graduated from a high school in TN.

    You had to pass tests in specific courses, but there was no exit exam or anything of the sort. I had taken and passed all the required tests by the end of my sophomore year. You of course have to pass classes to get all your credits, but the required courses are not known for their level of difficulty we will say. You were not there if you didn't pass.
    Then your issue should be with the Tennessee school system, not with the kids who could benefit from this program.

    I think it's a great program to get kids into the job market with better skills than are needed at Walmart and McDonald's, which are minimum wage, dead end jobs which will lead to the employee depending on the government to fill in the gaps for food, shelter and Healthcare. I see the scholarship program as a ticket to a better life for those that can't afford college or trade school any other way.

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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by msndrstood View Post
    Then your issue should be with the Tennessee school system, not with the kids who could benefit from this program.

    I think it's a great program to get kids into the job market with better skills than are needed at Walmart and McDonald's, which are minimum wage, dead end jobs which will lead to the employee depending on the government to fill in the gaps for food, shelter and Healthcare. I see the scholarship program as a ticket to a better life for those that can't afford college or trade school any other way.

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    If you were going to donate money out of your own pocket to send a college, would you choose to give it to the kid that passed with a D or the kid with the 4.0? It has nothing to do with having issues with anyone. It is about ensuring that the funding is spent in the most effective and beneficial way. There is only so much money to be spent.

    I agree. This is a great way to fill the work force with more skilled laborers, but if half the kids drop out the first year and never benefit from the program, it is money wasted that could be better spent elsewhere. Give it to the kids that try hard in high school. That way the program has the best chance of being effective. If there is money left over, lower the standards. If there is not enough funding, raise them. Simple as that.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Quote Originally Posted by A895 View Post
    People play the lottery on the hopes of striking it big, and being able to "make it". A dollar a day for a lottery ticket is nothing compared to the cost of living, putting food on the tablet, and taking care of a family.
    A dollar a day, ~$30/mo, can provide you with at least 3 good meals for a family, likely more if you really stretch it and have leftovers. That could also be extra used to pay down a credit card faster. Or car loan. Or put into a Christmas fund to give the kids a lot better selection of presents. Take your pick, there's lots of better uses for that money. That's assuming you're playing the cheap $1 tickets. Those are getting less popular with states going to $2-5 tickets. I've seen some for $10 before. Depending what article you read and survey base, average yearly lotto spending can be $500-600 or more per person. That's a lot of money for those most likely to buy them.
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    Default Re: TN to 100% Fund Community College and Tech Schools for High School Grads With Lottery Funds

    Here's an example.

    A close friend of mine has 3 boys. The oldest graduated high school with a 3.7, never struggled with school. He is in college in Colorado and is getting student loans and will be in debt when he graduates. He is self supporting, his parents cannot help him at this time. Not the greatest way to start out in life, but it's what he has to do.

    Her middle son graduated last year, barely. He's a good kid, loves to work with his hands (matter of fact he's helping me around the house next week because he can't find a job and I'd rather pay him than a stranger). He's good with mechanics but he cannot find a job with a high school diploma in the mechanical field of any kind. He graduated with a 2.0 after some extra classes in 12th grade. He would be able to benefit from the TN program by entering a mechanical trades school but by your standards, it would be wasted on him. He had planned to go to one of the technical schools, but tuition was $35000 for a 18 month certificate program (not including room and board). His family cannot afford it, yet he would benefit tremendously if he could attend any similar trade school.


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