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  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  

    Default Bundy Ranch

    I hope cooler heads can prevail, but it's not looking good after reading this, "...militias from all across the country, including Texas, Montana, Utah, New Hampshire, and Florida, have mobilized to stand with the Bundy family and others protesting the BLM..." or this, "...Now Oath Keepers, a non-partisan association of 40,000 current serving and former military, police, and first responders who have pledged to fulfill their oaths to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, has released a statement that they, too, will stand by the Bundys against the corrupt actions of this government....". Now we have a bunch of armed hobby cops who call themselves a people militia. What are they going to? Provoke a fight I am sure. That's the wrong way to fight the federal government.

    Militia members, ultra-conservatives rally to cause of Nevada rancher | Reuters
    Nevada Rancher Warns Land Dispute With BLM 'Could Turn Into' Next Waco

  2. #2  
    NoYankees44's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Politics asides, reports are saying that the feds have spent 966k just in contractor fees rounding up this guy's cattle. That is not including all costs of having so many of their own forces surrounding this guy's land to "keep the peace". They estimate that Brundy owes just one a million dollars in penalties and fees. So we are spend as much or more to get the fees from this guy. This either has nothing to do with money owed and is really about control, or the federal agency is displaying the usual level of government incompetence.
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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    Politics asides, reports are saying that the feds have spent 966k just in contractor fees rounding up this guy's cattle. That is not including all costs of having so many of their own forces surrounding this guy's land to "keep the peace". They estimate that Brundy owes just one a million dollars in penalties and fees. So we are spend as much or more to get the fees from this guy. This either has nothing to do with money owed and is really about control, or the federal agency is displaying the usual level of government incompetence.
    So are you saying if it cost too much to enforce the law or a court order, just drop it?
  4. #4  
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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    So are you saying if it cost too much to enforce the law or a court order, just drop it?
    I'm saying that, assuming this guy is completely at fault, there has to be a better way to penalize him and enforce the law. If this truly is about him owing tax payers money, then it is ridiculous spending more to punish him than he owes. It's like saying "let's spend 2 million dollars to save 1 million dollars".

    So either this is about control and setting an example of him, or it is just another example of the complete incompetence our government entities display all the time. I am not sure which.
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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    I am glad cooler heads prevailed. 16,000 ranchers follow the grazing law. Bundy thinks he's above the law due to his Mormon roots. Now all the hobby cops with their high powered rifles think they're hero's, but they'll be in for a big surprise. Once you mess with the Feds like that, you are going to have them looking over your shoulder at every turn.
  7. #7  
    Serial Fordicator's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    So, if I may ask, if Bundy owed 1.1 mil dollars and a paramilitary force descends upon him, why did Al Sharpton who owes 2.3 mil get invited to a white house gala with obama and holder?

    Seriously, stop letting the news programs you watch make your mind up for you. Step away from both sides and stand above so you can see the entire picture.

    "The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers." Thomas Jefferson

    I trust any citizen more than the government due to the history of men vs government.

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  8. Thread Author  Thread Author    #8  

    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    So, if I may ask, if Bundy owed 1.1 mil dollars and a paramilitary force descends upon him, why did Al Sharpton who owes 2.3 mil get invited to a white house gala with obama and holder?

    Seriously, stop letting the news programs you watch make your mind up for you. Step away from both sides and stand above so you can see the entire picture.

    "The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers." Thomas Jefferson

    I trust any citizen more than the government due to the history of men vs government.
    I've noted your error

    1. I don't let news programs make up my mind. I read a wide variety of news. I was reading news from China this morning and I was reading news from Iran yesterday. Once I gather all the facts I form an opinion.

    2. Thomas Jefferson wasn't a deity, nor are his quotes always the righteous words to follow. His statement above is as ignorant as saying, "On the question of sex education, ignorance is bliss".
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  9. #9  
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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I've noted your error

    1. I don't let news programs make up my mind. I read a wide variety of news. I was reading news from China this morning and I was reading news from Iran yesterday. Once I gather all the facts I form an opinion.

    2. Thomas Jefferson wasn't a deity, nor are his quotes always the righteous words to follow. His statement above is as ignorant as saying, "On the question of sex education, ignorance is bliss".
    No one claimed him to be a deity. I agree with his quote so I quoted it. I fail to see how his quote is even within 500 miles of the vicinity of what you posted. I also fail to see the ignorance in what he said. Perhaps the ignorance is on the part of the accuser?

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  10. Thread Author  Thread Author    #10  

    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    No one claimed him to be a deity. I agree with his quote so I quoted it. I fail to see how his quote is even within 500 miles of the vicinity of what you posted. I also fail to see the ignorance in what he said. Perhaps the ignorance is on the part of the accuser?
    If that's what you want to think, it's good by me.
  11. #11  

    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    It's been interesting how conservative politicians are using this as some anti-government rallying call to gin up the base. These same people call for people to follow laws, such as with illegal immigration, but if a guy wants to just stop paying land use fees, for 20 years no less, these same types rally around the guy. Incredibly hypocritical. I wonder if they would be so critical of the BLM if a Republican was in the White House? After all, this guy wasn't paying his bills back then either.

    The guy is no hero. He's nothing more then a scammer not paying while other's do. He does not recognize the Federal Government at all for any reason saying he does recognize Nevada. I've got some news for him. It's not Nevada keeping Russia or some other invader from his land.

    Speaking of which, I wonder if he'd let me use his land for free? How about a movie studio filming there? Somehow I don't think he would be quite so accommodating.

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  12. #12  

    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    I lean right on most things, but they should just arrest the guy and be done with it. Those coming to his defense are idiots on the fringe.
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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    I lean right on most things, but they should just arrest the guy and be done with it. Those coming to his defense are idiots on the fringe.
    I'm such a hater of the federal government it's very hard for me to side with them on any issue. Especially if it involves sniper rifles. Is this over a turtle or taxes? I guess what really bothers me over the whole thing is if it's only over taxes why just go after him? Why not go after people like sharpton? Why is there no more ranchers on that land? What is the government going to do with it?

    It's also hard for me to label these people as idiots. I think people feel tired of being pushed by the government, that they are wanting to push back over any incident that happens. After looking back in history, some of these people are acting like some people acted prior to our independence. Citizens were rebelling, whether rightfully or wrongfully, prior to our independence from Britain and the same things are beginning to happen now.

    After trying to watch cnn and them labeling people trying to help as gun clinging morons and fox labeling people as patriots, Trying to find a no biased source to read as to what in the hell is going on is mind numbing.

    From what bundy himself is saying is he has and will not pay a federal fee on the land because it is not owned by the federal government but by the state of Nevada. He admits that the land was owned by the federal government prior to Nevada becoming a state. Now, a federal judge ordered him to pay but is this an unjust law if Nevada is the actual entity of land ownership?

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    Last edited by Serial Fordicator; 04-15-2014 at 03:47 PM.
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  14. #14  

    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    I'm such a hater of the federal government it's very hard for me to side with them on any issue. Especially if it involves sniper rifles. Is this over a turtle or taxes? I guess what really bothers me over the whole thing is if it's only over taxes why just go after him? Why not go after people like sharpton? Why is there no more ranchers on that land? What is the government going to do with it?

    It's also hard for me to label these people as idiots. I think people feel tired of being pushed by the government, that they are wanting to push back over any incident that happens. After looking back in history, some of these people are acting like some people acted prior to our independence. Citizens were rebelling, whether rightfully or wrongfully, prior to our independence from Britain and the same things are beginning to happen now.

    After trying to watch cnn and them labeling people trying to help as gun clinging morons and fox labeling people as patriots, Trying to find a no biased source to read as to what in the hell is going on is mind numbing.

    From what bundy himself is saying is he has and will not pay a federal fee on the land because it is not owned by the federal government but by the state of Nevada. He admits that the land was owned by the federal government prior to Nevada becoming a state. Now, a federal judge ordered him to pay but is this an unjust law if Nevada is the actual entity of land ownership?

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    The left are going to call these people rallying around him "ultra conservative ect" because of politics. There isn't a conservative that doesn't recognize the federal government, that's more libertarian than anything. Two federal judges have ruled against him, the Nevada constitution says he's wrong that the federal government doesn't have the authority. If he doesn't recognize the federal government in anyway shape or form and doesn't want to pay, then put your money were your mouth is and hand over your passport and GTFO of this country. If he owes the feds over 1 million since 1993, arrest him and throw him in jail! Wesley Snipes served time for less. As a 2nd amend supporter who also supports CC, those idiots who pointed loaded weapons at federal agents should all be in jail as well.
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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    The left are going to call these people rallying around him "ultra conservative ect" because of politics. There isn't a conservative that doesn't recognize the federal government, that's more libertarian than anything. Two federal judges have ruled against him, the Nevada constitution says he's wrong that the federal government doesn't have the authority. If he doesn't recognize the federal government in anyway shape or form and doesn't want to pay, then put your money were your mouth is and hand over your passport and GTFO of this country. If he owes the feds over 1 million since 1993, arrest him and throw him in jail! Wesley Snipes served time for less. As a 2nd amend supporter who also supports CC, those idiots who pointed loaded weapons at federal agents should all be in jail as well.
    I didn't know about the pointing of loaded weapons. I concur on your point on that. I will ask what you meant when you said " the Nevada constitution says he's wrong that the federal government doesn't have the authority." Did you make a typo? Should it be that the Nevada constitution say he's right or the fed does have the authority?

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  16. #16  

    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    I didn't know about the pointing of loaded weapons. I concur on your point on that. I will ask what you meant when you said " the Nevada constitution says he's wrong that the federal government doesn't have the authority." Did you make a typo? Should it be that the Nevada constitution say he's right or the fed does have the authority?

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    He claims he only answers to Clark country and the state of Nevada. "I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing." Nevada's constitution has a paramount-allegiance clause.

    Article 1, Section 2

    All political power is inherent in the people. Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States ; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair, subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.
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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    The left are going to call these people rallying around him "ultra conservative ect" because of politics. There isn't a conservative that doesn't recognize the federal government, that's more libertarian than anything. Two federal judges have ruled against him, the Nevada constitution says he's wrong that the federal government doesn't have the authority. If he doesn't recognize the federal government in anyway shape or form and doesn't want to pay, then put your money were your mouth is and hand over your passport and GTFO of this country. If he owes the feds over 1 million since 1993, arrest him and throw him in jail! Wesley Snipes served time for less. As a 2nd amend supporter who also supports CC, those idiots who pointed loaded weapons at federal agents should all be in jail as well.

    I have found most so called "libertarians" are really ultra conservatives. I am willing to bet most of those people defending this ***** are ultra conservative than true libertarians. Top it off the GOP has aligned itself with libertarians and conservatives. So yeah they get caught in this mess. I have a feeling their will Tea party congress members who will scream about supporting this guy and he was with his right.
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
  18. #18  

    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    I have found most so called "libertarians" are really ultra conservatives. I am willing to bet most of those people defending this ***** are ultra conservative than true libertarians. Top it off the GOP has aligned itself with libertarians and conservatives. So yeah they get caught in this mess. I have a feeling their will Tea party congress members who will scream about supporting this guy and he was with his right.
    Libertarians would give no foreign aid, they would let Iran and NK develop nukes, they'd let Russia invade Ukraine and not bat an eye. Those are not Republican or Conservative values, those are libertarian or classic liberal views. "Ultra-Conservatives will try to legislate moral code, that's the last thing a libertarian would think to do.
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  19. Thread Author  Thread Author    #19  

    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    Libertarians would give no foreign aid, they would let Iran and NK develop nukes, they'd let Russia invade Ukraine and not bat an eye. Those are not Republican or Conservative values, those are libertarian or classic liberal views. "Ultra-Conservatives will try to legislate moral code, that's the last thing a libertarian would think to do.
    Somalia is a Libertarian paradise. basically no government, no regulations, no taxes, no welfare, freedom to do what ever you want.
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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Somalia is a Libertarian paradise. basically no government, no regulations, no taxes, no welfare, freedom to do what ever you want.
    So, does that mean nazi germany was a liberals paradise? Free government ean healthcare, they hated the rich or they called them jews, heck the government ran everything, oh and gun control

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    Last edited by Serial Fordicator; 04-17-2014 at 07:53 PM.
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  21. #21  

    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Somalia is a Libertarian paradise. basically no government, no regulations, no taxes, no welfare, freedom to do what ever you want.
    Libertarianism. Not to be confused with anarchism.
  22. #22  
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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    I'm such a hater of the federal government it's very hard for me to side with them on any issue. Especially if it involves sniper rifles. Is this over a turtle or taxes? I guess what really bothers me over the whole thing is if it's only over taxes why just go after him? Why not go after people like sharpton? Why is there no more ranchers on that land? What is the government going to do with it?

    It's also hard for me to label these people as idiots. I think people feel tired of being pushed by the government, that they are wanting to push back over any incident that happens. After looking back in history, some of these people are acting like some people acted prior to our independence. Citizens were rebelling, whether rightfully or wrongfully, prior to our independence from Britain and the same things are beginning to happen now.

    After trying to watch cnn and them labeling people trying to help as gun clinging morons and fox labeling people as patriots, Trying to find a no biased source to read as to what in the hell is going on is mind numbing.

    From what bundy himself is saying is he has and will not pay a federal fee on the land because it is not owned by the federal government but by the state of Nevada. He admits that the land was owned by the federal government prior to Nevada becoming a state. Now, a federal judge ordered him to pay but is this an unjust law if Nevada is the actual entity of land ownership?

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    Bolded what I'm replying to.

    Fifth Amendment:

    Fifth Amendment | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute

    JUST COMPENSATION CLAUSE

    While the federal government has a constitutional right to "take" private property for public use, the Fifth Amendment's Just Compensation Clause requires the government to pay just compensation, interpreted as market value, to the owner of the property. The U.S. Supreme Court has defined fair market value as the most probable price that a willing but unpressured buyer, fully knowledgeable of both the property's good and bad attributes, would pay. The government does not have to pay a property owner's attorney's fees, however, unless a statute so provides.
    In Kelo v. City of New London, the U.S. Supreme Court rendered a controversial opinion in which they held that a city could constitutionally seize private property for private commercial development. 545 U.S. 469 (2005).
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    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    I'm such a hater of the federal government it's very hard for me to side with them on any issue. Especially if it involves sniper rifles. Is this over a turtle or taxes? I guess what really bothers me over the whole thing is if it's only over taxes why just go after him? Why not go after people like sharpton? Why is there no more ranchers on that land? What is the government going to do with it?

    It's also hard for me to label these people as idiots. I think people feel tired of being pushed by the government, that they are wanting to push back over any incident that happens. After looking back in history, some of these people are acting like some people acted prior to our independence. Citizens were rebelling, whether rightfully or wrongfully, prior to our independence from Britain and the same things are beginning to happen now.

    After trying to watch cnn and them labeling people trying to help as gun clinging morons and fox labeling people as patriots, Trying to find a no biased source to read as to what in the hell is going on is mind numbing.

    From what bundy himself is saying is he has and will not pay a federal fee on the land because it is not owned by the federal government but by the state of Nevada. He admits that the land was owned by the federal government prior to Nevada becoming a state. Now, a federal judge ordered him to pay but is this an unjust law if Nevada is the actual entity of land ownership?

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    It might be hard for you to label these people idiots, but I doubt the men in revolutionary times were talking about using their women as shields like these guys. Heroes and patriots they are not.

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  24. #24  

    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetGator View Post
    It might be hard for you to label these people idiots, but I doubt the men in revolutionary times were talking about using their women as shields like these guys. Heroes and patriots they are not.

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    U do realize that whole them using women as sheilds was a false story right ? Get your facts first please stop spreading false info

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  25. Thread Author  Thread Author    #25  

    Default Re: Bundy Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by Uselessbass View Post
    U do realize that whole them using women as sheilds was a false story right ? Get your facts first please stop spreading false info

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    There were many different stories published on that issue. Whether it was a strategy or not. Whether the women volunteered to go to the front or not isn't the point. The bottom line is, it's the wrong way to challenge the federal government.

    Who was that nut in Texas that would say, praise the lord and pass the ammunition? Who was the nut that blew up a building in Oklahoma because he didn't like the way the Texas situation was handled? These aren't patriots, they're a bunch of nuts trying to encourage sedition and bloodshed.
    Last edited by palandri; 04-20-2014 at 07:54 AM.
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