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    Default Obama Is In Malaysia

    So Obama in on his Asian tour. Today he is in Malaysia and he's talking about human rights...etc.... I am a left wing Democrat, so I must support it, correct? Nope! Not at all. Malaysia still canes or whips people as punishment. Whatever you want to call it, it's still physical mutilation. That has to end. Am I picking on Malaysia? Not really, there are other countries that do barbaric things. I think we should cut off diplomatic relations with any country that whips or canes people.
  2. #2  
    Darth Spock's Avatar

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    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    To play the part of the devil's advocate for a moment, precisely where do you believe we ought to draw the line when setting up minimum standards for ethical treatment of .... well anyone. Obviously we're talking human rights; do we have specific actions that are prohibited or a general score of which violations are worth points and countries are graded, etc. How would we rank on that scorecard?
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  3. Thread Author  Thread Author    #3  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Spock View Post
    To play the part of the devil's advocate for a moment, precisely where do you believe we ought to draw the line when setting up minimum standards for ethical treatment of .... well anyone. Obviously we're talking human rights; do we have specific actions that are prohibited or a general score of which violations are worth points and countries are graded, etc. How would we rank on that scorecard?
    Good question. I guess start with banning the obvious, caning, whipping, lex talionis...

    We would be behind Europe, Scandinavia and Canada and probably a few others. Drone strikes with collateral damage (innocent bystander) would really hurt our rating.
  4. #4  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    So Obama in on his Asian tour. Today he is in Malaysia and he's talking about human rights...etc.... I am a left wing Democrat, so I must support it, correct? Nope! Not at all. Malaysia still canes or whips people as punishment. Whatever you want to call it, it's still physical mutilation. That has to end. Am I picking on Malaysia? Not really, there are other countries that do barbaric things. I think we should cut off diplomatic relations with any country that whips or canes people.
    I'm kind of torn on that issue and both agree and disagree with that sentiment. Sometimes in order to foster change somewhere, you have to open up a dialog. Shut the door on them and you shut down talk and reason as well. Which is perhaps why he made that speech to begin with in that location.
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    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Sarah Palin's statement at the NRA conference was another example of what not to do. She even brought religion into to justify it by saying, Waterboarding is how we baptize terrorist. I hope those days over. If we're doing it, the odds of an opponent doing it to U.S. soldiers is greatly increased, which was a concern echoed by John McCain.
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  6. #6  
    NoYankees44's Avatar

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    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    I don't think cutting off ties would necessarily work. Unless you could somehow keep your relevance in the world and maintain high incentives for diplomatic relations, the countries would not care. They may even hate you and not want more relations. Then if our country becomes less influential and needs them for whatever reason, we would be our of luck.

    I also do not think our enemies would hesitate to torture any of our citizens or military based on what we do to our captives. Maybe they would be less likely to torture for no reason, but there is no way they would hesitate of they wanted information or were just angry. We are dealing with people that have no remorse.

    I am also much less sympathetic to more abrasive interrogation techniques though. I am ok with anything that does not permanently harm the individual physically or mentally. This is for interrogation of enemies that we believe have valuable information, not citizens or general pow's.

    Now for general punishment, physical harm should always be avoided. However I am not a fan of our current incarceration methods and conditions. I think we should find a way to make prison significantly less desirable.
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  7. #7  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Sarah Palin's statement at the NRA conference was another example of what not to do. She even brought religion into to justify it by saying, Waterboarding is how we baptize terrorist. I hope those days over. If we're doing it, the odds of an opponent doing it to U.S. soldiers is greatly increased, which was a concern echoed by John McCain.
    The extremists don't use water boarding, they just behead the Americans they catch.

    I don't think we're in the position, nor is any country to dictate what is ethical. I'm sure there are plenty here in the US who would welcome some rather disturbing things to be done to rapists and child molesters.
  8. #8  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    The one reason I think the US needs to stop looking down its nose at other countries that we think are violating human rights is the fact that we jail a larger portion of our citizens than any other country in the world. We need to fix what's broken with our own country before we start trying to tell other countries what to do.
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  9. Thread Author  Thread Author    #9  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    The one reason I think the US needs to stop looking down its nose at other countries that we think are violating human rights is the fact that we jail a larger portion of our citizens than any other country in the world. We need to fix what's broken with our own country before we start trying to tell other countries what to do.
    There's was a commrcial on TV last night for a show coming up on either the History channel or the History2 channel, about this very issue. They take a close look at the expansion of private prisons and the millions they are pulling in. When they build or buy a prison, they want a 90% occupancy rate. I can't find the link right now, but when I do, I'll post it here.

    Addendum: Found it, Saturday, May 3, 2014 9:00PM History2 Channel

    Addendum 2
    They also look at the, "Kids For Cash" scandal. Remember that? A private juvenile facility giving cash kick backs to judges for sending kids to the facility: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
  10. #10  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    There's was a commrcial on TV last night for a show coming up on either the History channel or the History2 channel, about this very issue. They take a close look at the expansion of private prisons and the millions they are pulling in. When they build or buy a prison, they want a 90% occupancy rate. I can't find the link right now, but when I do, I'll post it here.

    Addendum: Found it, Saturday, May 3, 2014 9:00PM History2 Channel

    Addendum 2
    They also look at the, "Kids For Cash" scandal. Remember that? A private juvenile facility giving cash kick backs to judges for sending kids to the facility: Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It's not just the private sector that wants these jails occupied, but it's also a certain political party that likes it when we have voters stripped of their voting rights. There are many layers to this issue, but it's definitely our dark little human rights violation secret.
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  11. #11  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    It's not just the private sector that wants these jails occupied, but it's also a certain political party that likes it when we have voters stripped of their voting rights. There are many layers to this issue, but it's definitely our dark little human rights violation secret.

    Yes, because attempted murder, murder, rape, armed robbery, heroin dealing, ect couldn't possibly be the reason they're in jail. Come to SW side of Chicago and stand on a street corner and take a look at the gang bangers who would put you 6ft in the ground in a heart beat for you wearing a Pittsburgh Pirates hat then talk to us about how they're misunderstood and victims of some grand right wing conspiracy. lol
  12. #12  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    Yes, because attempted murder, murder, rape, armed robbery, heroin dealing, ect couldn't possibly be the reason they're in jail. Come to SW side of Chicago and stand on a street corner and take a look at the gang bangers who would put you 6ft in the ground in a heart beat for you wearing a Pittsburgh Pirates hat then talk to us about how they're misunderstood and victims of some grand right wing conspiracy. lol
    Perfect definition of a "straw man argument". Now lets see you define blind ignorance....no wait, I think you did that in another post....let me go to the tape.....
  13. Thread Author  Thread Author    #13  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    It's not just the private sector that wants these jails occupied, but it's also a certain political party that likes it when we have voters stripped of their voting rights. There are many layers to this issue, but it's definitely our dark little human rights violation secret.
    You're talking about the party of "Freedom" rugged individualism, each man on their own two feet, the old west, the NRA, sink or swim buddy, whatever it takes to get to the top, to heck with everyone else, what's in it for me, always looking out for #1, and the socialist are trying to destroy our "Freedom"
  14. #14  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    You're talking about the party of "Freedom" rugged individualism, each man on their own two feet, the old west, the NRA, sink or swim buddy, whatever it takes to get to the top, to heck with everyone else, what's in it for me, always looking out for #1, and the socialist are trying to destroy our "Freedom"
    Yes. What I find most amusing about most of the people voting for that party is they are actually delusional enough to think that they're part of that group's plan. The only way I can see someone voting for that party is if they were making $300,000 a year and had a secret offshore bank account. If you're making LESS than $100,000 a year and vote for that party then there is something seriously wrong with your logic. Of course, you see how dysfunctional our government is, and it's obvious that there are too many people voting in a manner that enables the rich and hinders the rest of us.
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    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    You're talking about the party of "Freedom" rugged individualism, each man on their own two feet, the old west, the NRA, sink or swim buddy, whatever it takes to get to the top, to heck with everyone else, what's in it for me, always looking out for #1, and the socialist are trying to destroy our "Freedom"
    I commonly fall into the false assumption that you are here to discuss, to share, and to express your beliefs in a constructive way. That you are different from the dime a dozen liberals. Then you post something like this that reeks of ignorance and hatred, and I am reminded that you are no different than the others that flame and spew the propaganda of your party with complete hatred disregard for anyone that thinks differently. It's rather disappointing. I won't expect any better again.
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  16. Thread Author  Thread Author    #16  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    I commonly fall into the false assumption that you are here to discuss, to share, and to express your beliefs in a constructive way. That you are different from the dime a dozen liberals. Then you post something like this that reeks of ignorance and hatred, and I am reminded that you are no different than the others that flame and spew the propaganda of your party with complete hatred disregard for anyone that thinks differently. It's rather disappointing. I won't expect any better again.
    You're taking it personally and literally when it was simply posted for the comedic value.
  17. #17  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    I commonly fall into the false assumption that you are here to discuss, to share, and to express your beliefs in a constructive way. That you are different from the dime a dozen liberals. Then you post something like this that reeks of ignorance and hatred, and I am reminded that you are no different than the others that flame and spew the propaganda of your party with complete hatred disregard for anyone that thinks differently. It's rather disappointing. I won't expect any better again.
    Feel free to explain to everyone why you think his assessment is incorrect. I don't see anything in his post that isn't what that party is all about. By all means, feel free to prove me wrong, but I don't expect any credible facts to back up any assertions you make to the contrary.
  18. #18  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    I commonly fall into the false assumption that you are here to discuss, to share, and to express your beliefs in a constructive way. That you are different from the dime a dozen liberals. Then you post something like this that reeks of ignorance and hatred, and I am reminded that you are no different than the others that flame and spew the propaganda of your party with complete hatred disregard for anyone that thinks differently. It's rather disappointing. I won't expect any better again.
    Lets not forget this is a discussion and supposed to be a friendly. Lets not take things personally or start tossing around words of ignorance and hatred because it will only turn this into something it shouldn't be. Representing parties, affiliations and beliefs is fine but lets keep in mind this isn't the place to settle or lay down lines of fire.



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    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    Yes, because attempted murder, murder, rape, armed robbery, heroin dealing, ect couldn't possibly be the reason they're in jail. Come to SW side of Chicago and stand on a street corner and take a look at the gang bangers who would put you 6ft in the ground in a heart beat for you wearing a Pittsburgh Pirates hat then talk to us about how they're misunderstood and victims of some grand right wing conspiracy. lol
    So were just going to ignore the fact that young black men are 10x more likely to be locked up than a young white man, even though white men commit just as many crimes?

    Yes its all a conspiracy. Keep thinking that.

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  20. #20  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    Come to SW side of Chicago and stand on a street corner and take a look at the gang bangers who would put you 6ft in the ground in a heart beat for you wearing a Pittsburgh Pirates hat then talk to us about how they're misunderstood and victims of some grand right wing conspiracy. lol
    Last couple months especially, you don't even have to be marked for wearing any particular article of clothing or affiliated with a gang to be shot & killed. Chicago has turned to a blood bath and its to the point I don't even turn on the news anymore or at least until the first 10 minutes are over. Chicago has a huge problem and I don't see it getting resolved anytime soon.

    Yes, I live about 40 mins south of Chicago.
    Paul
    Moderator Team Leader @ Android Central

    I am the Tegra Champ. What this means is that from time to time NVIDIA might send me new products to try out. This will not affect my thoughts, ideas, or opinions about any product that are discussed in the forums. Those are still my own.
  21. #21  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul627g View Post
    Last couple months especially, you don't even have to be marked for wearing any particular article of clothing or affiliated with a gang to be shot & killed. Chicago has turned to a blood bath and its to the point I don't even turn on the news anymore or at least until the first 10 minutes are over. Chicago has a huge problem and I don't see it getting resolved anytime soon.

    Yes, I live about 40 mins south of Chicago.
    When our society limits the amount of access to certain classes of our society (financial, educational, and other resources), I can see them becoming violent and not respecting the sanctity of life. I mean our society has already cast them aside and shown them that we have no respect for the sanctity of their life so I can't really blame them for having the same disdain.
  22. #22  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul627g View Post
    Last couple months especially, you don't even have to be marked for wearing any particular article of clothing or affiliated with a gang to be shot & killed. Chicago has turned to a blood bath and its to the point I don't even turn on the news anymore or at least until the first 10 minutes are over. Chicago has a huge problem and I don't see it getting resolved anytime soon.

    Yes, I live about 40 mins south of Chicago.
    It's a rigged right wing conspiracy to put a select group of people in jail and cast their voting rights aside. Everyone knows that!

    I think Emmanuel should go, McCarthy is an abject ***** and should be sent on his merry way immediately. Every shooting the man is claiming it's due to "Lax gun laws". The violence was still there when Chicago had the most restrictive gun laws in the country. I'm shocked a single reporter has never asked how many of these violent offenders have their FOID cards. People with willingness to shoot someone aren't going to follow a single gun law they put in place. A recent shooting McCarthy blamed CCW for the murder because a person with a CCW permit had their car broken into and the gun was stolen and then used to kill someone. Lets ignore the part about someone breaking into the car. The guy following all the laws is to blame, not the kid who committed two crimes, one of them murder.
  23. #23  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    It's a rigged right wing conspiracy to put a select group of people in jail and cast their voting rights aside. Everyone knows that!

    I think Emmanuel should go, McCarthy is an abject ***** and should be sent on his merry way immediately. Every shooting the man is claiming it's due to "Lax gun laws". The violence was still there when Chicago had the most restrictive gun laws in the country. I'm shocked a single reporter has never asked how many of these violent offenders have their FOID cards. People with willingness to shoot someone aren't going to follow a single gun law they put in place. A recent shooting McCarthy blamed CCW for the murder because a person with a CCW permit had their car broken into and the gun was stolen and then used to kill someone. Lets ignore the part about someone breaking into the car. The guy following all the laws is to blame, not the kid who committed two crimes, one of them murder.
    So, the problems you described are caused by a number of factors. One, gun laws based on one city or even one state do not work simply because you can just bring in things from another town or state. We need comprehensive gun reform nationwide. But the folks in the rural areas won't hear of that, so the people in the city pay the price for that mindset. It's like we've become slaves to the 2nd amendment and well...that's just the way it is as we continue to circle the drain. It just doesn't matter to some people. They don't want to change anything. So people keep dying. As long as it isn't them, there doesn't seem to be much motivation to address the core issues.

    Next cause is lack of jobs, education and upward mobility. Many of these people turn to crime because they see it as an out to the situation that they are in. Some possibly even see a stint in prison as a better life than what they have. So we need to concentrate on giving people some real opportunity in this country. Not $8 an hour flipping burgers for the rest of your life. I blame both parties for this. Alnd really all of society. We've all allowed this to happen and to continue. We treat this problem like we treat the homeless....sweep it under the rug...out of sight out of mind, hoping the problem will just go away. But of course it doesn't. We need a new way of thinking about things and actually address the root problems.
  24. Thread Author  Thread Author    #24  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul627g View Post
    Last couple months especially, you don't even have to be marked for wearing any particular article of clothing or affiliated with a gang to be shot & killed. Chicago has turned to a blood bath and its to the point I don't even turn on the news anymore or at least until the first 10 minutes are over. Chicago has a huge problem and I don't see it getting resolved anytime soon.

    Yes, I live about 40 mins south of Chicago.
    This has went on since long before we were born. It use to be the mob shooting each other up and controlling territory. My father told me Al Capone use to toss silver dollars out of his to car to kids to get their support.
  25. #25  

    Default Re: Obama Is In Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetGator View Post
    Next cause is lack of jobs, education and upward mobility. Many of these people turn to crime because they see it as an out to the situation that they are in. Some possibly even see a stint in prison as a better life than what they have. So we need to concentrate on giving people some real opportunity in this country. Not $8 an hour flipping burgers for the rest of your life. I blame both parties for this. Alnd really all of society. We've all allowed this to happen and to continue. We treat this problem like we treat the homeless....sweep it under the rug...out of sight out of mind, hoping the problem will just go away. But of course it doesn't. We need a new way of thinking about things and actually address the root problems.
    Agreed.

    I'm not someone who is against helping others and/or humans in general but its so hard when you turn on the TV or read on the net we've given away more money to others outside the US to help them when we have folks right here in our neighborhoods dying, starving, homeless and need of education and jobs. Instead of giving that .50 cents a day outside the US, lets fix our own problems first. Not saying other countries don't deserve help but we neglect our own which just isn't right.

    As mentioned, to many who have turned to crime & gangs a short trip to jail may seem like a holiday compared to what they have to live in. Yet government and every party out there is guilty of just spending on themselves and others instead of helping those who really need it, the future of tomorrow which is killing themselves off today.
    Paul
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