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    Default Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    A New York-based Satanic Temple wants to erect a statue of Baphomet on the steps of the Oklahoma Capitol. The statue is 7-feet tall and has a goat head, wings, horns and a beard.

    ABC News: Satanist Statue Nearing Completion (story link here)

    The Capitol already has a monument of the Ten Commandments. A spokesman for the Satanic Temple said they want to put the Baphomet statue next to the Ten Commandments as a symbol to “celebrate our progress as a pluralistic nation founded on secular law.”

    Currently, Oklahoma has halted the installation of new monuments pending a lawsuit from the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU is suing to have the Ten Commandments monument removed.

    Should Oklahoma allow religious groups to put statues and monuments at the Capitol?
  2. #2  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    ....Should Oklahoma allow religious groups to put statues and monuments at the Capitol?
    What do you think?
  3. Thread Author  Thread Author    #3  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    What do you think?
    Allow everyone to submit a statue, but none will be permanently installed. Scan each statue into a computer to create a hologram. Project the hologram at a designated area and change the image at regular intervals.
  4. #4  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    I am with the ACLU on this and thus keeping all religious artifacts out of government buildings.
  5. #5  
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I am with the ACLU on this and thus keeping all religious artifacts out of government buildings.
    So when I create a religion that worships clock towers and Roman style columns you will remove those religious artifacts from every government building in the country?


    As far as the thread, if those people want it in their court house, let them. As long as they are not allowing that religion to control their government, there is no foul.

    However I am sure this is just another troll attempt by those that hate religion...
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  6. #6  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    So when I create a religion that worships clock towers and Roman style columns you will remove those religious artifacts from every government building in the country?


    As far as the thread, if those people want it in their court house, let them. As long as they are not allowing that religion to control their government, there is no foul.

    However I am sure this is just another troll attempt by those that hate religion...
    Thanks for reminding why I normally stay 100 miles away from these threads. Please forgive me, I wrote my response before having coffee and my brain wasn't fully functioning.

    I'll go back to watching Cosmos. Over and out!
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  7. #7  
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Thanks for reminding why I normally stay 100 miles away from these threads. Please forgive me, I wrote my response before having coffee and my brain wasn't fully functioning.

    I'll go back to watching Cosmos. Over and out!
    I completely get that...

    This whole issues becomes ridiculous when people put religion it's own special pedestal and blindly hate or support it accordingly. Like every other aspect of society, religion will make its way into politics and government affairs from time to time. As long as religion is not controlling the government and the will of the People is being realized, nothing else matters.
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  8. #8  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    So when I create a religion that worships clock towers and Roman style columns you will remove those religious artifacts from every government building in the country?


    As far as the thread, if those people want it in their court house, let them. As long as they are not allowing that religion to control their government, there is no foul.

    However I am sure this is just another troll attempt by those that hate religion...
    As opposed to a troll post by those that love religion? Why not just make a religion that worships oxygen and have all the oxygen removed from these entities? That would appease the tea party since they want less government right?


    The reason that religious bias in government is dangerous is pretty much detailed in most history books. Most of our founding fathers knew the dangers of having a government with a strong religious influence. If you look at the general progression of religious countries throughout history, eventually the religious majority tries to force their beliefs onto the rest of the population and bloodshed always tends to follow. Now I'm not insisting that this would happen here, but why would anyone risk us going down the same path that has toppled countless other societies? Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
    msndrstood likes this.
  9. Thread Author  Thread Author    #9  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    The reason that religious bias in government is dangerous is pretty much detailed in most history books. Most of our founding fathers knew the dangers of having a government with a strong religious influence.
    For the most part, Americans seem happy to elect politicians who are Christian. Would you consider this to be a strong religious influence on government if the majority of the people in charge believe in the same faith?
  10. #10  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    For the most part, Americans seem happy to elect politicians who are Christian. Would you consider this to be a strong religious influence on government if the majority of the people in charge believe in the same faith?
    I think most people in this country think that in order to be moral that you have to belong to a faith, their faith in particular. It's sad really because it's like any other prejudice IMO. As a country we have a long history of believing that our President should belong to one particular race and one particular gender. It's nice to see that we've somewhat evolved even if half the country still holds to those prejudices.
  11. Thread Author  Thread Author    #11  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    It's nice to see that we've somewhat evolved even if half the country still holds to those prejudices.
    So, does religion have a strong influence over the US government today?
  12. #12  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    So, does religion have a strong influence over the US government today?
    Much to my dismay, I'd say yes. But, Soccer is also the #1 sport in the world (IMO mostly because of its ease of accessibility not because it's a great sport, I mean it's Ice Hockey on grass for crying out loud), McDonalds is the #1 fast food joint in the world, and Christianity and Islam are more popular than Atheism/Agnostic beliefs. So by no means do we live in a perfect world.....
  13. #13  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Can we please have an atheist/agnostic president already? I am so sick of these religious men in office!

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  14. #14  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    So when I create a religion that worships clock towers and Roman style columns you will remove those religious artifacts from every government building in the country?


    As far as the thread, if those people want it in their court house, let them. As long as they are not allowing that religion to control their government, there is no foul.

    However I am sure this is just another troll attempt by those that hate religion...

    I am more of the boat you can not have a religious reason for having religious items in a public own place. And this is the general ruling of the courts.
    Remember the bill of rights is more to protect the rights of the minorities not the majority.
    10 commandments because it is a monument to a person which that was huge part of that persons life ok. Same thing because that is the beliefs of the people in the area not ok.

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  15. #15  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    Can we please have an atheist/agnostic president already? I am so sick of these religious men in office!

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    I've heard some people claim that Obama is agnostic/atheist, but my belief is that a lot of politicians are behind closed doors, but pretend to identify with Christianity because the public isn't ready to accept someone that doesn't get their morality out of a book.
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  16. Thread Author  Thread Author    #16  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    Can we please have an atheist/agnostic president already? I am so sick of these religious men in office!
    I'm sure atheist and agnostic politicians have run for office before. I would guess that such candidates siphon off votes from other parties (like the Democratic party), and then we end up with a religious conservative in office.
  17. #17  
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    Can we please have an atheist/agnostic president already? I am so sick of these religious men in office!

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    I sure hope that never happens. This country is in enough trouble as it stands now.
  18. Thread Author  Thread Author    #18  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by pappy53 View Post
    I sure hope that never happens. This country is in enough trouble as it stands now.
    Would you prefer a president who is Christian in name only (sometimes referred to as CINO)? They are people who say they believe in Christ and make the motions of believing in Christianity, but deep in their hearts, they don't actually believe any of it.
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    Would you prefer a president who is Christian in name only (sometimes referred to as CINO)? They are people who say they believe in Christ and make the motions of believing in Christianity, but deep in their hearts, they don't actually believe any of it.
    I want a Christian in that office, period. And every other office in this land.
  20. Thread Author  Thread Author    #20  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by pappy53 View Post
    I want a Christian in that office, period. And every other office in this land.
    Do you have a preference on Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant?
  21. #21  
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Non-Christian Presidents:

    Unitarians:

    John Adams
    John Quincy Adams
    Millard Fillmore
    William Howard Taft

    Deists:

    Thomas Jefferson
    James Madison
    James Monroe
    Abraham Lincoln
    Andrew Johnson

    No Affiliation:

    Ulysses Grant
    Rutherford Hayes


    Quick math shows 11 of our 44 presidents (approximately 25%) were not traditional Christians and especially not in any modern connotations of the concept. Just believing that Jesus exists and had disciples, etc doesn't make one a Christian. Otherwise Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Judaism believers would all be considered to be Christians.

    Somewhere in the neighborhood of 78% of Americans self identify as Christians (as of 2007) and so having 75% of American Presidents do the same seems fitting. The next largest group in the US is "No religion" at about 16%.

    Many presidents are traditionally thought of as being Christian because their families were, etc. but these are generally all men capable of forming their own opinions and many of them did so. Unitarians and the very early Episcopalian believers held many views in common with Christianity (Episcopalian was broken off of the Church of England).

    Also, Ann Coulter says that Obama is an Atheist, not a Muslim. For whatever that's worth.
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
    So, what can history tell us in dealing with this situation?

    WFTV Channel 9 - District meets as group wants to pass out Satanic material at Orange County schools (article link here)

    A school district in Florida is thinking of banning the distribution of all religious material in public schools because The Satanic Temple wants to hand out "The Satanic Children's Big Book of Activities." It's basically a coloring book with things like a word search, connect the dots, and other activities that would appeal to young kids.

    However, if the district bans all religious materials, it may face a lawsuit because there is a group that has been giving out Bibles for years. A ban would affect Bibles as well.

    So, right now, the school board has to make a decision to either let children get a Satanic coloring book or fight a lawsuit against a Bible group.
  23. #23  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    So, what can history tell us in dealing with this situation?

    WFTV Channel 9 - District meets as group wants to pass out Satanic material at Orange County schools (article link here)

    A school district in Florida is thinking of banning the distribution of all religious material in public schools because The Satanic Temple wants to hand out "The Satanic Children's Big Book of Activities." It's basically a coloring book with things like a word search, connect the dots, and other activities that would appeal to young kids.

    However, if the district bans all religious materials, it may face a lawsuit because there is a group that has been giving out Bibles for years. A ban would affect Bibles as well.

    So, right now, the school board has to make a decision to either let children get a Satanic coloring book or fight a lawsuit against a Bible group.
    It tells us that Separation of Church and State needs to be practiced equally and not just when hypocrites want to ban a belief system that they subscribe to. We can always go back to having a monarchy where the King tells us what religion we must abide by, but we know how that ended up.
  24. Thread Author  Thread Author    #24  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    It tells us that Separation of Church and State needs to be practiced equally and not just when hypocrites want to ban a belief system that they subscribe to. We can always go back to having a monarchy where the King tells us what religion we must abide by, but we know how that ended up.
    However, Americans like the idea of religious plurality. For example, even non-Christians like taking Thanksgiving and Christmas Day off from work. We simply need to find the right balance.

    Certainly, it would be difficult for the US to go back to a monarchy. A lot of people left Britain to come to America for religious freedom. What was the result? The formation of the United States, a global superpower in the modern era. Not too shabby, right? It's nice to see religion leading to great things. We've even patched up our relationship with the UK, and it's a key US ally.

    To be fair, perhaps it was merely the fact that people don't like kings. A queen, on the other hand, would be much more preferable. I hear that Queen Elizabeth II is very popular, and people don't want her to abdicate. Maybe people simply want a woman in charge instead of a man?
  25. #25  

    Default Re: Oklahoma Religious Statue Controversy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post
    So, what can history tell us in dealing with this situation?

    WFTV Channel 9 - District meets as group wants to pass out Satanic material at Orange County schools (article link here)

    A school district in Florida is thinking of banning the distribution of all religious material in public schools because The Satanic Temple wants to hand out "The Satanic Children's Big Book of Activities." It's basically a coloring book with things like a word search, connect the dots, and other activities that would appeal to young kids.

    However, if the district bans all religious materials, it may face a lawsuit because there is a group that has been giving out Bibles for years. A ban would affect Bibles as well.

    So, right now, the school board has to make a decision to either let children get a Satanic coloring book or fight a lawsuit against a Bible group.
    Separation of church and state is strictly enforced in Europe. You can't wear religious items at public schools that would link you to any sect, nor can you have a minister speak at the school or at a graduation ceremony. That's how it should be enforced in the states.

    The right will argue that it's not freedom from religion, but freedom of religion, which only causes problems.
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